Author Topic: My ideal pizza  (Read 3390 times)

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Offline clcardell

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My ideal pizza
« on: September 05, 2009, 04:40:14 PM »
This is a pizza from a local pizzeria.  This is my ideal pizza!  If I could make a pizza even close to this I would be a happy man!  Any suggestions where to start?

Caputo???
Water???
Yeast???
etc???



Offline Matthew

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 04:57:38 PM »
This is a pizza from a local pizzeria.  This is my ideal pizza!  If I could make a pizza even close to this I would be a happy man!  Any suggestions where to start?

Caputo???
Water???
Yeast???
etc???



Hard to tell from the picture.  My guess would be that it's not Caputo flour & that they use oil in their dough.  It also looks like it's been cooked longer & at a lower temperature than traditional Neapolitan Pizza.  Why not ask them?

Matt

Offline andreguidon

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 05:57:30 PM »
well the corniccione is almost flat, maybe the pizza is opened whit a roller ?? by the color, it may have some oil....
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Offline pacoast

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 06:00:05 PM »
Can you describe the texture & taste of the crust? It's hard to tell from a picture alone. What specific things did you like most about it? If you name the pizzeria, someone here may be familiar with it.

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Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2009, 08:22:32 PM »
Can you describe the texture & taste of the crust? It's hard to tell from a picture alone. What specific things did you like most about it? If you name the pizzeria, someone here may be familiar with it.

The cornicione is very light, crisp and airy.  Each slice folds nicely and is slightly chewy and has a nice doughy (yeast?) taste to it.  I like the lightness and thiness.  I also like the crisp, crackery cornicione.  The place is called Vingenzo's Pizza.

Offline pacoast

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 12:11:44 AM »
Vingenzo's in Woodstock, Ga. They describe their pizzas as "handcrafted Neapolitan" and more or less looks the part. The picture that you posted shows a rather flat & dry, probably crackery corniccione, while some of the other pictures on their website look closer to a conventional Neapolitan.

Do you know how long it takes to bake their pizza? At a guess it's a Neapolitan recipe but cooked longer, at a lower temperature or with high gluten flour instead of Caputo, resulting in a chewier and less delicate, more crackery crust. I'd try a standard Neapolitan recipe, but with high gluten flour or a mix of Caputo & high gluten, perhaps with a little oil & at a temperature a bit lower than normal (for a Neapolitan). Also Matt had a great idea, ask them, they may give you some useful information.

For a starting point, how about this recipe from Peter Reinhart?

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Offline ilpizzaiolo

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 12:28:19 AM »
that pizza is not neapolitan pizza. in fact it is garbage. even worse than the pizza is the menu. filled with spelling errors and b.s. they did not do their homework and do not care about pizza, they are one of the 2,000 b.s.  neapolitan joints that are ruining the good name of neapolitan pizza. its disgusting.


Offline David

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 01:16:33 AM »
This may be your "Ideal Pizza" ,but it has nothing to do with Neapolitan.It's a real shame that this is being sold as such and people not knowing any better will now believe that this really is what Neapolitan pizza is!
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Offline pacoast

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 02:53:31 AM »
Authentic Neapolitan? No obviously not. Does it sully the reputation of authentic Neapolitan pizzerias? Perhaps, but that's really another thread. Any good product is going to have countless bad imitations in it's wake. That's life. But for the moment, it seems like this pizza is the OP's favourite. And it still seemed worth trying to get him started with his home recipe.

The key is knowledge. The more the OP learns about Neapolitan, the more likely he is going to seek out or appreciate a really good, authentic pizzeria.

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Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 08:50:04 AM »
This may be your "Ideal Pizza" ,but it has nothing to do with Neapolitan.It's a real shame that this is being sold as such and people not knowing any better will now believe that this really is what Neapolitan pizza is!

Yeah, in my profile I stated I'm not a "purist" when it comes to Neapolitan pizza.  I eat what I think tastes good not by some ranking, rating or certification.  If I could reproduce this pizza at home and enjoy it with friends and family it will suit my needs just fine.  Sorry if I offended anyone.

Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 10:48:12 AM »
Vingenzo's in Woodstock, Ga. They describe their pizzas as "handcrafted Neapolitan" and more or less looks the part. The picture that you posted shows a rather flat & dry, probably crackery corniccione, while some of the other pictures on their website look closer to a conventional Neapolitan.

Do you know how long it takes to bake their pizza? At a guess it's a Neapolitan recipe but cooked longer, at a lower temperature or with high gluten flour instead of Caputo, resulting in a chewier and less delicate, more crackery crust. I'd try a standard Neapolitan recipe, but with high gluten flour or a mix of Caputo & high gluten, perhaps with a little oil & at a temperature a bit lower than normal (for a Neapolitan). Also Matt had a great idea, ask them, they may give you some useful information.

For a starting point, how about this recipe from Peter Reinhart?

Thanks.  Looks like a good starting point !!

Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 10:55:00 AM »
The key is knowledge. The more the OP learns about Neapolitan, the more likely he is going to seek out or appreciate a really good, authentic pizzeria.

I spoke with a member yesterday regarding a post he made 5 years ago!!!  I'm sure he got a good laugh; however, his response was "Wow that post must have been made by a different person, I've made so many changes since then".  I'm sure this is what its all about.  Gaining knowledge and developing new tastes!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 11:00:55 AM by clcardell »

Offline Mo

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 07:10:33 PM »
This may be your "Ideal Pizza" ,but it has nothing to do with Neapolitan.It's a real shame that this is being sold as such and people not knowing any better will now believe that this really is what Neapolitan pizza is!

Harumph. Sound the alarm...

Offline David

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 11:39:45 PM »
Yeah, in my profile I stated I'm not a "purist" when it comes to Neapolitan pizza.  I eat what I think tastes good not by some ranking, rating or certification.  If I could reproduce this pizza at home and enjoy it with friends and family it will suit my needs just fine.  Sorry if I offended anyone.

Craig ,welcome to the Forum.I certainly didn't take offense at your comments,only what you were being sold.If I was presented that by a restaurant as representative of Neapolitan Pizza I would be extremely disappointed.I'm sure you judge BBQ by regional differences and expect specific qualities to be apparent within each style.I see pizza in a similar vein.Others seemingly couldn't care less,but I think that at least on a Pizza specific Forum the standards to be somewhat higher and sought.Good luck with your quest,
regards,
David
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2009, 06:13:33 AM »
Craig ,welcome to the Forum.I certainly didn't take offense at your comments,only what you were being sold.If I was presented that by a restaurant as representative of Neapolitan Pizza I would be extremely disappointed.I'm sure you judge BBQ by regional differences and expect specific qualities to be apparent within each style.I see pizza in a similar vein.Others seemingly couldn't care less,but I think that at least on a Pizza specific Forum the standards to be somewhat higher and sought.Good luck with your quest,
regards ,David

I appreciate your enthusiam!  Yes I do have the same enthusiam for BBQ.  I'm just getting started with pizza making and hope to someday be knowledgable enough to make a great pizza in my WFO.  I noticed your avatar has an Antica Pizza logo.  My wife and I are both planning a trip to Marina Del Rey to attend their pizza class.  Hopefully, I'll find what I'm looking for and can share some advice with others.

Offline Matthew

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2009, 08:06:40 AM »
I appreciate your enthusiam!  Yes I do have the same enthusiam for BBQ.  I'm just getting started with pizza making and hope to someday be knowledgable enough to make a great pizza in my WFO.  I noticed your avatar has an Antica Pizza logo.  My wife and I are both planning a trip to Marina Del Rey to attend their pizza class.  Hopefully, I'll find what I'm looking for and can share some advice with others.

Your going to have to travel a little further than California my friend. ;)
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Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2009, 08:44:12 AM »
Road trip !!!!  Well Kind of!  :D


Offline thezaman

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2009, 11:06:15 AM »
craig, your BBQ look delicious . my son and i just returned from antica and learned allot about Neapolitan pizza . you will enjoy it, and jose the main pizza trainer is very dedicated and knowledgeable . i will be a great learning experience . one other suggestion is go to the members section and read past posts in the Neapolitan section as well as other forum areas . there are some real knowledgeable members here and the amount of info you can pick up is amazing . some of the top Neapolitan pizza restaurants are represented on this forum.

Offline Mo

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2009, 01:22:16 PM »
I appreciate your enthusiam!  Yes I do have the same enthusiam for BBQ.  I'm just getting started with pizza making and hope to someday be knowledgable enough to make a great pizza in my WFO.  I noticed your avatar has an Antica Pizza logo.  My wife and I are both planning a trip to Marina Del Rey to attend their pizza class.  Hopefully, I'll find what I'm looking for and can share some advice with others.

I think what some people are unwilling or unable to acknowledge is that claims to authenticity are all subjective. It is worth remembering also that individual claims to authenticity (pizzerias, organizations) are sometimes self-serving and not made with furtherance of the tradition in mind. It is often businesses trying to separate themselves in a competitive marketplace. Even within a well-defined genre, individual taste, style and methodology will differ from maker to maker.

And having said that, I agree with previous comments that the pizza pictured looks like a lower bake temp which leads to longer cook time. The difference being maybe as little as 650-700 degrees for 3-4 minutes as opposed to 900 degrees for 90 seconds. The rest of it looks pretty good and appears an honest attempt to make a good, Neapolitan-style pizza. The wine looks good too...


Offline ilpizzaiolo

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2009, 01:45:09 PM »
the people behind that restaurant do not even come close. it is nothing but a concept to them. there effort is minimal and borders on pathetic. the most obvious example of that is on their menu.

http://www.vingenzos.com/images/Menu_Dinner_Vingenzos_June_2009.pdf

after all the song and dance about san marzano tomatoes, bell shaped ovens and secret dough .....  they misspelled the word margherita? its pizza margherita, not pizza margharita its obnoxious, insulting and shameful that the public pays them for a product they have no business producing. how much research could they have possibly done if they cant get that right? drives me nuts.




Offline David

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2009, 02:42:25 PM »
It is worth remembering also that individual claims to authenticity (pizzerias, organizations) are sometimes self-serving and not made with furtherance of the tradition in mind.

From the image offered,I would agree that this is the case here and is the reason I find it appalling.I personally find that sufficient evidence to criticize the execution of it and draw attention to that.Champagne is Champagne as they say and remains so because of upholding traditions.
From your comments it would seem that you accept mediocrity and have little respect for maintaining such traditions? Be that as it may,I see no reason why new members of the Forum should be misled into believing that what he was sold was  as you said

it looks pretty good and appears an honest attempt to make a good, Neapolitan-style pizza.

With respect, we have wildly different opinions on what "looks pretty good".The honest attempts of many amateur board members here far exceed the quality of this commercial operation IMO,and would offer a better starting point for him if Neapolitan Pizza is really what he is looking for?
I tend to think Craig may be better of searching the Roman Style threads ( and Flickr photos from some of the renowned pizzerias in Italy ) to get a better understanding of styles,characteristics and definitions.
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Offline clcardell

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2009, 03:09:54 PM »
craig, your BBQ look delicious . my son and i just returned from antica and learned allot about Neapolitan pizza . you will enjoy it, and jose the main pizza trainer is very dedicated and knowledgeable . i will be a great learning experience . one other suggestion is go to the members section and read past posts in the Neapolitan section as well as other forum areas . there are some real knowledgeable members here and the amount of info you can pick up is amazing . some of the top Neapolitan pizza restaurants are represented on this forum.

Thanks!  We are excited about the trip and hope to learn a lot from Jose.

Offline David

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2009, 03:14:42 PM »
Here is a link to a good Blog page that  spotlights some of the better pizzerias in Naples and gives you a quick side by side comparison of each.It is quickly evident than certain characteristics are common among all,and should be used as a benchmark if Neapolitan is what you are looking for?

http://www.alifewortheating.com/italy/a-pizza-tour-of-naples/

To me it is not about being a "purist".If you don't like Neapolitan (and many don't ? ) then seek out Roman,New York style, etc.etc.but please don't change what is a defined style and still maintain to call it what it no longer is.
If you're looking for a date... go to the Supermarket.If you're looking for a wife....go to the Farmers market

Offline Mo

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Re: My ideal pizza
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2009, 03:59:07 PM »
From the image offered,I would agree that this is the case here and is the reason I find it appalling.I personally find that sufficient evidence to criticize the execution of it and draw attention to that.

As is your prerogative.

From your comments it would seem that you accept mediocrity and have little respect for maintaining such traditions?

Easy there, bud. Let's not get carried away. You have yet to demonstrate in any intelligible fashion that "tradition" and "authenticity" are anything but subjective. Assume what you want about mediocre me, but I also have little respect for poorly conceived and executed semantic arguments.

With respect, we have wildly different opinions on what "looks pretty good".

I was referring to the sauce, cheese, basil. But you knew that, right? In any case, I have no doubt that different opinions exist.