Author Topic: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza  (Read 7521 times)

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Offline friz78

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2005, 09:45:42 AM »
Has anyone else experimented with hydrations %s between 65-70?  If so, I would love to hear the results.
Friz


Offline pftaylor

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2005, 10:43:01 AM »
Pete-zza,
Thanks again for taking such a high level of interest in other's effort. I am constantly amazed at your level of dedication. The impact of your collaboration has helped me determine the shortfall in my approach to basic formula, mixing technique, preparation techique, dough management, ingredient blend, and overall satisfaction with the end product.

I could not have gotten as far as I have without your direct input and for that I am truly appreciative.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2005, 10:57:34 AM by pftaylor »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2005, 10:48:35 AM »
Friz,

I have done it on occasion, but usually by accident. There is a practical limit to the hydration levels you can use for a pizza dough because you have to be able to handle and shape the dough. Too much water and you can't handle the dough without running into all kinds of problems--excessive stickiness of the finished dough, excessive extensibility, the dough sticking to the peel or pizza screen, etc. If you could overcome all of these potential problems, then I suspect that, all other things being equal, the finished crust would be very light and airy. To the extent that pftaylor was able to overcome these obstacles (assuming that his hydration percent was really around 70 percent), then I would guess that his pizza crust was indeed light and airy. I believe also that Jeff indicated in one of his postings that his Patsy dough clone is high in hydration (although I don't recall that he specified a percent).

A hydration range of 65-70 percent is usually reserved for doughs like focaccia dough. A range of 70-80 percent is usually reserved for breads like ciabatta breads. In both cases, the handling of the dough by hand is problematic. In fact, with ciabatta dough, as well as other high-hydration doughs (such as some rustic bread doughs), the handling is intentionally minimized and dough scrapers are usually used to turn the dough to accomplish a good part of the kneading. You wouldn't be able to do it solely by hand because the dough would be too wet and stick to your fingers all over the place (and you likely would deflate the dough). But the finished bread will be full of large, irregular-shaped holes.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2005, 11:01:59 AM »
pft,

Thanks for the kind words, but they are unnecessary. I enjoy this aspect of pizza making, especially if what I do along these lines is of help to others. It all comes down to understanding baker's percents and using a scale and a calculator. With time and experience, it is actually fairly easy and quick to do the various conversions.

Peter

Offline pftaylor

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2005, 02:00:53 PM »
I'm pretty sure the hydration level of the formula I'm using is not 70%. I would think it's much closer to 65% based on how the dough looks and feels during mixing. I require only a very light dusting of flour to keep the dough ball from sticking to the counter top for final forming and from sticking to my hands.

My only explanation for the apparent gap is that Pete-zza is much more accurate with weight measurements than I am with volumetric.
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Offline pftaylor

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2005, 06:08:37 AM »
Pete-zza sort of brings up a great hidden point here. How can I have a 70% hydration level? In fact, I probably don't. The only way I can develop the consistency necessary to reproduce recipes with certainty is to use a digital scale for all my ingredients. I have one but it is primarily designed for mail and is accurate to only the tenth of an ounce with a five pound limit. Further, I have been using volumetric measures for water.

In light of the descrepancy between what Pete-zza calculates with his scale and my eye-ball method, I've decided to break down and order one of the scales Alton Brown recommended in his book "I'm Just Here For More Food." Alton recommends two scales - one for heavy ingredients like flour and water (My digital Pelousze should be accurate enough) and then a much more precise scale.

The scale he refers to in his book is the Frieling Accu Balance 400. It is very precise and measures to the tenth of a gram, with an eight ounce limit. Switching between grams and ounces is easy as pushing a button. I think my days of wondering if I added too much of this or too little of that are over. I'm going to weigh everything.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2005, 06:55:24 AM »
jft,

Welcome to the club :).

Having looked at a description of the Frieling scale, its main value seems to be its ability to measure very small quantities. As such, it should be a very good item to have on hand to weigh lightweight ingredients in small quantities, such as yeast, sugar, salt, Carnation malted milk, etc. The only downside I can see--and it is a niggling one, I admit--is that you won't be able to share the results from using such a precise and accurate scale with anyone else but another owner of a similar scale. You will still have to use weight-to-volume conversion data to convert to teaspoons, tablespoons and fractions thereof to be useful to others who might want to practice your recipes and do not have a similar scale--or any scale at all. It will be interesting to see if the accuracy you will be able to achieve will have a noticeable effect on your pizzas, including consistency, reliability and uniformity of results, which is the reason for using a scale in the first place.

For those who may be interested, I found the following description of the Frieling 400 unit at Amazon.com:

The scale is computer calibrated for the utmost accuracy and holds a maximum of 8 ounces or 250 grams, which is equal to one serving size. The digital display is easy to read and provides weight measurements in both the metric and imperial systems and in increments of .005 ounce or 0.1 gram. Four soft push buttons surrounding the LCD turn the scale on and off, toggle between grams and ounces, hold a reading for 10 seconds, and reset the scale to zero. For convenience, the scale has an add ‘n weigh feature, which lets you place multiple portions on the scale while weighing each one individually. The lid on this unit doubles as a measuring tray and is dishwasher-safe for hygienic cleaning. This electronic scale runs on two lithium batteries (included) and automatically shuts off when left idle to preserve battery life.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 20, 2005, 07:21:07 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline pftaylor

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Re: PFTaylor's Home Version of Patsy's Pizza
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2005, 10:29:37 AM »
Amazon's price for the Frieling Accu Balance 400 is $39.95 delivered. My order has already shipped. I can't wait to determine how close my "eyeball" method is to the real thing.
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