Author Topic: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven  (Read 1475 times)

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Offline mollies mom

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Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« on: September 11, 2009, 01:28:47 AM »
I'd like to pick everyones brains for the best dough mix to use for my little oven that is at 800 degrees. I am looking for a crisp bottomed light thin airy crust that isn't heavy or dry...sort of a cross between a NY street slice and a Neopolitan......charred and blistered but not burnt tasting. Maybe what I would like is impossible but I still want to try. I have here at home right now, All Trumps High gluten, regular all purpose, Better for Bread (Harvest King) and Caputo 00 Pizzeria flours. I have been making a wet dough with just the All Trumps and while it is satisfactory I know it can be better. Would it be better to mix the all Trumps with one of the other flours or to make the dough with all Caputo, should I add diastatic malt to the dough? For sauce I am using San Marrzano tomatoes that I crush and mix with some fresh oregano from my garden along with some fresh basil, sea salt, crushed rep perpper and if they taste a little bitter some sugar. I vary the cheese depending on our mood, fresh mozz, smoked mozz, dry Boars Head deli sliced dry mozz etc. One of our favorites is carmelized onions with asiago, reggiano parm and mozz, no sauce on this one. I have a poolish sitting overnight getting ready to make some dough tomorrow and then I put it into the fridge for an overnight cold rise. Looking forward to any responses. Thanks, Mattie


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 10:18:03 AM »
Mattie,

One possibility that you might consider is to make a clone of the dough that the famed Dom DeMarco uses at DiFara's in Brooklyn. Domenic changes his ingredients from time to time, but when I researched his pizza dough some time ago he was using a combination of All Trumps high-gluten flour and Caputo 00 Pizzeria flour. For background purposes, you might want to read this post: Reply 122 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg11222.html#msg11222. Dom uses an old Baker's Pride gas deck oven that apparently works at a higher temperature than the more modern counterparts. I am not sure exactly what that temperature is (I have read numbers all over the place), but the number I have read that seems credible is about 650 degrees F. His pizzas are not 90 second or minute or two pizzas. His pizzas take several minutes to bake.

I have a standard home oven but you can see the results of some of my DiFara dough clones in a series of posts starting at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,504.msg11723.html#msg11723. In your case, you might experiment with the higher oven temperatures that your oven can deliver. I personally like the combination of high-gluten flour and Caputo 00 flour and consider such blends among my favorites, mainly because they work quite well in my standard home oven. However, I recall that others have used similar blends with 2-stone and other ovens that can deliver higher temperatures than my oven.

Good luck.

Peter

Offline mollies mom

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 05:59:10 PM »
Peter,
    Thanks so much for your input. When I went to make my dough a while ago I discovered my All Trumps infested with worms.........I have dealth with weevils before but never saw anything like these things in my flour. I store all flours in air tight buckets so these things must have come in with the bags I just got, 25 pounds out the door to the trash, I have to sift thru the second bag in a little while. If I do find critters in it then I will mix the dough with the 00 and the bread flour I have on hand right now and hope for the best. I am going to go with a 50/50 mix to start and will post the results. It is so nice to be among others who can understand the need for decent pizza. I tried to attach a pic of one of my pies but got the file too big notice and I don't know how to reduce it so I failed at posting it. Have a great weekend and happy pizza making, thanks agin for the input. Mattie
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 09:43:31 PM by mollies mom »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 06:35:19 PM »
Mattie,

Living in Texas, I am always dealing with the infestation issue. As you will note from the post at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3433.msg29165.html#msg29165, infestation is a problem with flours that are not used quickly and are held at room temperature. What I do with new flours is to freeze them for a few days. That is supposed to kill any insects/eggs/parts that are in the flour at the time of purchase. I then put the flour in sealed containers. If you don't do that, free roaming insects in your pantry will find your flour and, if necessary, eat through the flour bag to get to the flour and set up housekeeping and start partying. The advice that I sometimes see on the matter of insects in flour is to sift the flour if there are only a few bugs. If there are too many, the advice is to discard the flour.

Peter

Offline mollies mom

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 09:41:08 PM »
Peter,
    I am right next door to you in Louisiana........I KNOW about our southern bugs, believe me I know bugs!! So far I haven't found any more in the new All Trumps High Gluten that I have here. We are planning on getting a large upright freezer next month so that I can fit all my flours in it for storage.....along with some food if the hubby insists. All my flours right now are stored in supposedly air tight containers but I notice that the large one the buggy flour was is had the sides bowed out so I guess the seal wasn't as tight as it should have been, the other container is fine so far....no bugs. The dough for tomorrow is just about ready to go into the fridge for an overnight rest and I will use it tomorrow night if all goes according to plans. Thanks again for all the help.  Mattie

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 03:54:44 AM »
As to "buggy flour" as Peter alluded to, the bugs are already there, live or as eggs. The right temp and humdity gets them buggers a hatchng and most are trying to eat there way out, not in. As said, freezing for X period of time or microwaving helps. Dry cool storage also helps. Unsightly and unsettling is the biggest problem more than a health hazzard. In certain clmates best to buy in smaller quantities so the flour doen't set as long. I keep my flour and rice in gallon ziplock bags in the basement on a cool shelf along the wall, or in a well sealed bucket, again in a cool spot in the basement.
Jon
Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2009, 09:13:18 AM »
Look at it from the bright side. They increase the protein content of the flour :-D. Maybe General Mills and other millers can use that fact in their advertising :chef:.

Peter

Offline mollies mom

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Re: Advice on best dough mix for high temp oven
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 06:25:12 PM »
I just finished making 3 pizzas using all Caputo 00, I have to say I am definitley impressed. Although I made a wet dough I have to say it has stregnth to spare, I managed to form it thinner than I have ever been able to do and had no tearing of it. The pizza cooked at 700 took 4 minutes to bake and the ones at 800 took 2 minutes. They were all very crispy on the bottom, light and airy at the rim with plenty of taste. The bottoms got a nice light char on them and yet the rim didn't burn like it normally does when I try to get the bottom charred. All in all a great bake and I am really happy with this flour, I'll be ordering more of it soon. I have 2 more balls and I think I am going to try making some rosemary breadsticks with them to see if they also come out as crispy as the pizza bottoms did......I have a load of rosemary in the garden so this will be a perfect use for it.  Thanks so much for all the help. Have a great weekend...Mattie