Author Topic: dough too stiff  (Read 2135 times)

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brayshaw

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dough too stiff
« on: August 30, 2009, 01:20:47 PM »
hello there :) i am after your advice...i just made a dough with 63%water 2%salt and 0.40%yeast. i mix by hand but it was v firm and not very elastic when i just put it in the fridge. where am i going wrong guys?
thanks in advance!

 ;D


Online Pete-zza

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 01:53:26 PM »
brayshaw,

Can you post the complete dough recipe you used, including weights of ingredients, the type and brand of flour, the type of yeast, and the steps you followed to make the dough, including rest and knead times?

Peter
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:27:13 AM by Pete-zza »

brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 03:00:46 PM »
hi pete,

i used 200g of strong white bread flour, i started by mixing the 2%salt in the 63%water then i mixed the flour with 0.40% yeast separately. then i added 75%of the flour  to the water and mixed for 2mins and the left covered for  20mins. i then added the last 25% of the flour an kneaded by hand for about 10mins. then i left for 10mins and then put it the fridge.
thanks buddy.

oh, btw it was fast action dried yeast
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 03:02:33 PM by brayshaw »

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 04:00:51 PM »
brayshaw,

I don't see anything from what you described to suggest that anything is out of order. I wondered whether your dough batch size was large and perhaps underkneaded, but I calculate that your dough ball weighed only 330.8 grams, or 11.67 ounces. Is it possible that you mismeasured the flour and/or water? If not, let's wait to see what results you get when time comes to make the pizza. Sometimes the flour condition and room temperature and humidity can affect the final dough but I don't know is those factors are present in your case.

Peter

brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 04:06:53 PM »
thanks for the advice peter, i'll let you know tomorrow how it was.

cheers :D

brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 06:56:46 AM »
i have just taken the dough out of the fridge and it was quite tough and just ripped when i tried to stretch it. ???

Offline Matthew

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 07:06:10 AM »
i have just taken the dough out of the fridge and it was quite tough and just ripped when i tried to stretch it. ???

Ripping is a pretty good indication of an under kneaded dough.  There is also a very good possibility; as indicated by Peter, that you may have mis-measured & have a dough that's not hydrated enough.

Best of Luck,
Matt

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 11:12:36 AM »
i have just taken the dough out of the fridge and it was quite tough and just ripped when i tried to stretch it. ???

brayshaw,

It sounds like you tried to stretch the dough while it was still cold. If so, that could also explain the rips. There are some doughs that can be safely shaped coming right out of the refrigerator but most of them tend to need a warm-up period at room temperature of around an hour to two hours, depending on the room temperature. Did you let the dough warm up in your case?

Peter

brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 03:30:22 PM »
Peter,

I made another batch today and it was identical..... I am mixing and kneading purely by hand as I don't own a mixer yet. Is that likely to be why it doesn't stretch?

Btw, you guys on here are an amazing help! ;D

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 03:41:48 PM »
brayshaw,

Since you used the terms "strong white flour" and "fast acting dry yeast", I assume that you are outside of the U.S., possibly the UK. But, even then, I don't see any reason why hand kneading about 11-12 ounces of dough by hand should be a problem. If you are trying to make the dough pass the windowpane test, I wouldn't be worried about not being able to pass that test. You would perhaps have to knead the dough considerably longer to develop the gluten to the point where you can successfully perform the windowpane test. It is OK for the dough to be slightly underkneaded and to allow biochemical gluten development to further develop the gluten. What brand of flour are you using, and did you warm up the last dough you made before using it to make the pizza?

Peter


brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 03:54:26 PM »
Iam in the UK... you guessed right! I am using a supermarket own brand of flour (Sainsburys) I did let it warm up mate but still v firm.

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 04:03:42 PM »
I am using a supermarket own brand of flour (Sainsburys) I did let it warm up mate but still v firm.

What is the temperature in your kitchen and how long did you let the dough warm up before working with it? And how many hours was the dough in the refrigerator before you removed it from the refrigerator?

Peter

brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 04:32:01 PM »
Its is probably 70ish degrees farenheit, maybe 30mins out the fridge before I started moving the dough. It was in the fridge  for around 18hrs.

Thanks
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 04:34:20 PM by brayshaw »

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 04:59:57 PM »
Its is probably 70ish degrees farenheit, maybe 30mins out the fridge before I started moving the dough. It was in the fridge  for around 18hrs.

Thanks

Based on your added comments, a couple of possibilities come to mind. The dough may not have had sufficient fermentation and/or the temper (warm-up) time was too short. That suggests that you let the dough ferment longer, for example, 24 hours or more (in the refrigerator), and/or let the dough temper longer at room temperature when you are ready to use the dough, for example, 1 1/2 to 2 hours. From that point forward, the dough should last a few or more hours longer. Some people who make several dough balls for use in series say that the best handing one is the last one in the series, because of the longer temper time and softer, puffy quality of the dough.

Let us know if these measures improve matters.

Peter

brayshaw

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2009, 08:30:11 AM »
Peter,

I am making a pizza in a couple of hours so I will let you know how it goes..... One question, how does Jeff Varasano get his dough to stretch so thin that you can see through it without it ripping?

Thanks for all the help btw. :)

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 11:08:55 AM »
One question, how does Jeff Varasano get his dough to stretch so thin that you can see through it without it ripping?

Based on my memory, Jeff Varasano uses a very specific dough preparation and management protocol that embodies adding the flour in stages, using multiple rest periods, a natural starter supplemented with a bit of IDY, and the use of a DLX mixer. I believe the dough is stretched thinly to be able to read through it after the fermentation period, not after mixing/kneading. It may be possible to replicate his methods using a different mixer or by hand, but adjustments will be required.

Peter

Offline PTW632

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Re: dough too stiff
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2009, 01:19:18 AM »
After you ball the dough up, you don't fold it over itself do you? Make a dough ball, make sure you close the back of it real well leaving no cracks. When you stretch the dough, start out in a thick pancake shape and work the outside edges out first. NEVER fold the dough back into itself.


 

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