### Author Topic: Anthony Mangieri Video  (Read 25658 times)

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#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2009, 10:17:19 AM »
For kicks, I have been studying the Mangieri video at some length to see if I can decipher how he made his pizza dough at UPN.

As part of my analysis, the first order of business was to determine how much flour Anthony removed from the 55-lb. bag of Caputo flour using the white plastic scoop and the Edlund balance scale shown in the video. The answer to that question might yield some information on his dough batch weight. It has been a very long time since I last used a balance scale and when I couldn’t figure out from the video how much flour Anthony was weighing, I went to the Edlund website in search of further information. I found a pdf document at http://www.edlundco.com/pdf/doughscale.pdf, which showed all the parts, but there were no user instructions. So, I called Edlund and asked to speak to someone who could tell me how to use the Edlund balance scale. I also wanted to know the values, in pounds, of the free weights used with the scale. A very nice lady at Edlund told me that the free weights are 8 lb., 4 lb., 2 lb., and 1 lb., and was kind enough to email me another pdf document with instructions on how to use the scale.

As best I can tell from the Edlund document and the video, Anthony is using the 4 lb. and 2 lb. free weights, along with the poise set at the 16-ounce (1-lb.) notch of the ounce beam. It’s also possible that he is using the 1 lb. free weight but it is hard to say on my monitor (see the 36-second mark of the video). If only the 4 lb. and 2 lb. free weights are being used, that would suggest that Anthony removed 7 pounds of flour from the bag. Otherwise, with the 1 lb. free weight also on the scale, the amount of flour removed from the bag would be 8 lbs. I have set forth below the instructions from the second pdf document in case my analysis is incorrect and someone more familiar with balance scales can come up with a correct value:

The Edlund Company, Inc. of Burlington, Vermont USA, manufactures bakers DoughScales, models BDSS and BDS. Each scale comes complete with measuring weights, an oversize white plastic scoop and scoop counterweight. The scoop counterweight is designed to offset the empty weight of the scoop. For accurate results, they must always be used together.

The counterweight must be calibrated prior to using the scoop. To do this:
1. Place the scoop on the left hand platform.
2. Remove the cover of the scoop counterweight and place the cover and the container on the right hand platform.
3. Be sure that the poise is at the zero position of the ounce beam.
4. Fill the plastic container with salt until the platforms float and are in balance.
5. Secure the top to the counterweight container.

The scale can be operated using the scoop as follows:
1. Place the scoop on the left hand platform and the adjusted counterweight on the right hand platform.
2. To weigh product in pound increments, place the appropriate measuring weights on the right platform and add the product to the scoop until the platforms float freely.
3. The scale beam measures in ¼ oz./5g Increments up to 1 pound/500g. For measuring product of 1 lb or less, slide the poise to appropriate notch, (i.e. 8 oz.), and add product to the scoop until the platforms float.
4. Weight is measured by adding together the pounds of free weight placed on the right platform and number of ounces selected on the scale beam.

Ex. If you wish to weigh 4 lbs. 8 oz./2250g of flour in the scoop, add the four-pound weight to the right hand platform, move the poise to the 8-ounce/250g position and pour flour in the scoop until the platforms float evenly.

Assuming my calculation was correct, that led me to the second question. Why was the flour removed from the flour bag? Was it because of 1) capacity constraints of the mixer (the mixer looks large enough to handle a lot of dough but I have not been able to identify the model used), 2) to achieve a desired finished dough batch size or specified number of dough balls after the addition of old, or prefermented dough, or 3) to be used for bench flour purposes or for some other application, including using it to feed the culture or to make a new batch of prefermented dough. If the latter, why would Anthony casually toss the small amount of flour in such a large container under the counter? I am not sure of the answers, and one can only speculate from the video.

After looking at the video several times, I believe that Anthony was using a prefermented form of “old dough” along the lines discussed by Didier Rosada (at http://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm) but using a small amount of natural starter (regularly fed) in lieu of commercial yeast. Such a prefermented dough should be able to endure a long period of room temperature fermentation (e.g., 24 hours). It might or might not include salt but I would guess no salt. Anthony’s own house literature states that the salt (Sicilian sea salt) is mixed in with the flour, presumably at the time of the final mix.

The use of a prefermented form of old dough would not appear to do injustice to the statement in Anthony’s house literature that pizzablogger posted in Reply 37 that says that “a piece of dough from the day before” is used. The statement does not say that the piece of dough is from the prior day’s actual dough production (that is, from the final mix). So, in my opinion, prefermented dough made the day before should qualify. Also, I did not get the impression from the video that some of the dough from the final mix is set aside for the next day’s dough. If such were the case, one would want to very carefully weigh either the dough taken from the bowl or the dough left in the bowl in order to get uniformity and consistency of results from day to day. I suppose that some license may have been taken with the video in this respect, but if simple steps like weighing flour are shown why would you omit the step of setting aside some of the dough for the next day’s use if it is considered an integral and important part of the Mangieri dough making method?

It is also important to keep in mind that the material that pizzablogger posted in Reply 37 appears to go back several years. So, what Anthony was doing in more recent times could well have changed from time to time from the original description of his dough making methods.

If I am correct that no dough from a given day’s production is used for the next day’s production, and that a prefermented form of old dough is used, then any unused dough left at the end of the evening could be thrown away, as Anthony’s house literature states. If one thinks about it, it would be impractical to try to salvage and reuse a few leftover unused dough balls at the end of the evening. The proper way to use old dough in such a case would be to take a significant portion of the dough from the day's production and set it aside for incorporation into the next day's dough.

On the matter of hydration of the prefermented dough, looking at the video it seems to me that the glob of dough in the rectangular tub could be similar to the hydration of the finished dough, although the tub dough may seem more highly hydrated because of the weakening of the gluten structure and the release of water from its bond due to the action of enzymes in the dough, as I believe Toby (Infoodel) earlier noted. I might add that a hydration of 64% would be typical of a prefermented dough (Didier Rosada states a range of 64-66%). It is also possible that Anthony’s starter has a higher hydration than the prefermented dough or final dough. I recently saw a video at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2009/04/videos-pure-and-simple-anthony-mangieri-una-pizza-napoletana-nyc.html that shows a tub of a highly-hydrated dough but it is not clear if that is the starter or prefermented dough.

Getting back to the numbers, if 7 pounds of flour is removed from the 55-pound bag of flour, that leaves 48 pounds. Assuming a hydration of 64% (as scott r noted), the water would add 30.72 pounds. That is equivalent to about 3.68 gallons. I suspect the video was truncated as to this aspect so as not to have to show the addition of all of that water. We don’t know how much prefermented dough Anthony would use, or his total dough formulation, but if we assume that the prefermented dough is about 15 pounds, which wouldn’t appear to be out of line from the size of the tub shown in the video (which looks to be quite full), and perhaps also adequate to produce dough balls usable after several hours of additional room temperature fermentation, then the total dough weight would come to around 94 pounds, or maybe around 95-96 pounds when the weight of the salt is added (I assumed 2% salt).

On the assumption that a typical dough ball weight is 10 ounces, as Anthony once told me, 95 pounds of dough would make 152 dough balls (assuming no dough losses or use of a lot of bench flour). In the video, I estimate that Anthony has about a couple dozen dough boxes (to the left and below the oven and also behind Anthony in the video), with each holding six dough balls. That number of dough boxes would be about right for about 150 dough balls. When I spoke with Anthony on typical daily dough ball volumes for his place, the figure he gave me (a few years ago) was 120 dough balls. I have no idea as to what volume Anthony was doing at the time of his decision to move on or at the time the video was made although it appears that he may have been experiencing more competition toward the end of his tenure in the business. Of course, the above numbers for the dough batch would change a bit if 8 pounds of dough is removed from the bag of flour and if he used more or less old dough than what I used in the above example.

With respect to what some members believe to be a small bowl of water on the counter, it is possible that that water is held aside to be used to fine tune the hydration of the dough and compensate for humidity, the weather, flour condition and variations, time of year, and other such factors. These are factors that Anthony has mentioned and discussed before as part of his challenge of making quality dough on a consistent basis. Apparently something was done with the bowl of water, since the bowl ended up under the counter (at the 52-second mark).

Peter
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 07:02:54 PM by Pete-zza »

#### Infoodel

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video - more points of confusion.
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2009, 12:49:54 PM »
Nice detective work Pete! - esp. regarding reading the scales. I'm so used to pushing a button and reading the display!
In the other video you mentioned ('Pure and Simple') Anthony appears to be kneading the levain before the video cuts to a dough division and shaping. Is it possible this is actually a stage not shown in the 'Naturally Risen' video  where Anthony is mixing a levain for the next day.
It's clear in the 'Naturally Risen' video that the ripe levain is simply scraped into the mixing bowl with no kneading required....soooo if the 'Pure and Simple' video shows Anthony kneading this raises the question why knead a levain which has already fermented if you're going to scrape all the contents into the mixing bowl anyway? Is it possible this is a shot of Anthony mixing the preferment for the next day? If so, one could conclude that the hydration for the levain is higher than the final dough. If nothing else, some water must have been added (again pointing to the additional container of water on the worktop).
To counter that argument, it's also clear in 'Pure and Simple' that there is dough high on the sides of the tub where Anthony is kneading the levain - possibly indicating that fermentation has already taken place....but one could also argue that he's simply using the same tub he just previously emptied.

Toby
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:52:43 PM by Infoodel »

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2009, 01:29:06 PM »
Toby,

No matter how good our forensics work is, there are bound to be things that are missing--either to create a "better" story flow for the video or to obfuscate certain details for trade secret purposes. I went back to the Pure and Simple video and, to be honest, we can't really tell what Anthony has in the tub. It could be the starter and Anthony is just punching it down before measuring out some of it to use, or he may have just fed it and is stirring it to incorporate the flour and water, or he has incorporated an amount of flour and water with the starter to make a prefermented dough. But, whatever it is, it appears to have a higher hydration than the final dough.

As you noted, in the Naturally Risen video, Anthony does not knead the glob in the tub. He could do so but there would be no real reason to do so since the mixer should be able to properly incorporate the glob into the final dough.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 02:43:48 PM by Pete-zza »

#### pizzablogger

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2009, 02:19:13 PM »
I am of the belief that, given the casual nature of how the initial dough weighed out from the 55lb Caputo bag was tossed into the blue bin, that much of that flour is used for bench flour.

The videos show a quite liberal use of bench flour during both the ball shaping and definitely while AM is shaping the skins just prior to topping and firing the skins.

If we are to assume that AM made approximately 120 to 150 dough balls per evening, here is the average flour loss per dough ball during the entire process from forming to firing:

8 pounds speculated weight of flour measured from bag and put into blue trashcan

8 pounds divided by 120 dough balls would equate to 0.066lbs lost flour per ball, or just over 1/16 of a pound
8 pounds divided by 150 dough balls would equate to 0.053lbs lost flour per ball, or about 1/20 of a pound

This certainly seems like a realistic per dough ball loss of bench flour throughout the entire process, so I am speculating that is primarilly what it is fo. Just a gues though
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

#### pizzablogger

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2009, 02:43:01 PM »
As an FYI, I had one of the most bizarre pizza moments of my life on Saturday.

I attended the Pieman's Craft event at Motorino Manhattan (old Una Pizza Napoletana space) and to make a long story short, just after the event was over I was briefly standing outside with Mangieri alone, with the full intent of mentioning the curiosity sparked by the Naturally Risen video and what the flour put in the blue bucket was for and, more importantly, I also wanted to inquire if only old dough from the day before leaven the current day's dough and, if so, what amount (by percent of formula flour or total weight, whichever he was using as a reference when making dough) it was used in.

I have also heard mentioned, and I cannot place the source anymore, that Mangieri "used a starter which was now 12 years old". This was a few years ago and may not be part of the process anymore, but I also wanted to inquire if a natural yeast starter was maintained and used to inoculate a preferment at some point of the process in lieu of, or in combination with old dough.

Just before I talked to him it struck me, literally out of nowhere and quite powerfully, that for some reason I didn't want to know (even if he would talk about it), that I enjoyed the mystery of it more than knowing. It was an awkward moment (and I am a blabbermouth not afraid to talk with anyone) and I kind of just stalled for a second and simply thanked him for coming back to take part of the event and wished him luck in San Francisco, where he announced he is opening a new place by March of 2010.

I'm an incredibly curious person by nature and its very strange to have had that moment and still not be able to entirely explain why.....and yet I'm okay with that. Effing bizarre.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

#### Bill/SFNM

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #65 on: October 12, 2009, 03:04:57 PM »
...  that for some reason I didn't want to know (even if he would talk about it), that I enjoyed the mystery of it more than knowing.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I've said often that someone else's method is an illusion. The only thing that matters is your method. So many little details that people in this thread are trying to suss out may never be known. Still, this has been a fun thread to read just to witness Peter's tour de force skills in research and deductive reasoning.

#### pizzablogger

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2009, 03:21:58 PM »
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I've said often that someone else's method is an illusion. The only thing that matters is your method. So many little details that people in this thread are trying to suss out may never be known. Still, this has been a fun thread to read just to witness Peter's tour de force skills in research and deductive reasoning.

You are correct Bill. Anyone can be given a written recipe and it's ultimately just that....pen and paper. I already make a pretty good dough, but it's up to me to feel my way until I am happy that my dough is as close to the full expresion of what I envision is a great pizza dough as possible.

It is indeed a pleasure to see Peter in action. If Ed Levine updates his book "A Slice of Heaven", I'll campaign hard that Peter should be added to the "Keepers of the Flame" section.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

#### thezaman

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #67 on: October 12, 2009, 03:55:28 PM »
pizzablogger , will you be willing to give us a report on the event? when i visited motorino  in the upn location it seemed he was following a lot of upn methods that i had seen on different videos . any thoughts?

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2009, 04:12:02 PM »
Bill and pizzablogger,

Thanks for the kind remarks. As they say, the devil is in the details.

I, too, originally thought that Anthony was using old dough from a prior day's dough production and that he may have been using one of the Italian starters. However, at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4010.msg33504.html#msg33504, pizzanapoletana (Marco) corrected my analysis of what Anthony was doing at the time. However, in retrospect, I believe Marco's discussion in that post fits the notion of using prefermented dough rather than a piece of dough from the prior day's production. In the following Reply 3 in that thread, I further elaborated on what Anthony was doing at the time, including his use of a small amount of starter and wild NYC yeast.

I think it is also helpful to know that, according to the Pure and Simple video, Anthony read every book that was written in the 70s and 80s on baking, Naples and pizza--from "cover to cover, like five times". No doubt, that obsessiveness set the stage for what he was to do in making his UPN pizza dough. It was perhaps also the basis of Marco's complaint that Anthony was using bread making techniques and was "a bit still away from the right ancient method of making a neapolitan dough with a natural leavening" (Reply 10 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,861.msg8679/topicseen.html#msg8679).

Peter

#### pizzablogger

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2009, 05:00:34 PM »
@ thezaman

I'll post something about the event later when I have more time. In the meantime, here is a shot I took. Mangieri on left, Mathieu Palombino in middle, Ed "Slice of Heaven" Levine on right.

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

#### thezaman

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2009, 05:26:05 PM »
looking forward to it! a pic from my visit to motorino @ upn

#### pizzablogger

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2009, 08:42:14 PM »
I remembered the source which mentioned the 12 year old starter batch and dug it out of my pile of magazines.

The June 30, 2008 issue of Wine Spectator had a cover story titled, "Great American Pizza". Anthony is one of the featured pizza makers. Some quotes from the article:

"He makes only about 100 pizzas a night"

"Mangieri makes his dough from a starter batch that he has nursed for 12 years"

"The Dough -- Mangieri's recipe relies on Italian 00 flour, a 12-year old starter and a two-day proofing period"

Not much insight, but gives some indication with regards to the amount of pizzas he made a night.
"It's Baltimore, gentlemen, the gods will not save you." --Burrell

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2009, 10:01:58 PM »
"He makes only about 100 pizzas a night"

It's hard to know what number of dough balls Anthony made each day that he was open because his hours on Thursday and Friday were 5 PM until the dough ran out and on Saturday and Sunday from noon until the dough ran out. That leads me to believe that he made different amounts of dough for Thursdays and Fridays and for Saturdays and Sundays. However, 100 pizzas a night is a number I have seen before, for example, in the October 2007 article at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/02/FD9HS7D6R.DTL. Maybe that is for Thursdays and Fridays.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 10:49:36 PM by Pete-zza »

#### Essen1

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2009, 01:09:26 AM »
Like I said before, I watched the video numerous times and finally decided to take a leap of faith and try to recreate that poolish/preferment everyone sees Anthony pouring out of that rectangular tub/bucket.

When I saw that, I realized that one shouldn't stick to the order of scenes/sequences the video show us. It might be edited to achieve the most effect or educational value. What I mean by that is that that scene might have taken place the night before, meaning the poolish/starter preferment was made after the shop closes up and is left to do its job overnight - with the rest of the ingredients added the next day - in order to get the 24 hr fermentation of his dough Anthony always speaks of. At least that's what I'd do. And if he uses a starter (Ischia, I believe it is) he can still claim it's naturally leavened.

Anyway, I tried to re-create that "glop of dough" and started feeding my Ischia starter to the point of full activity. I then took 100 gr. of it and kept feeding that one with 1/2 Tbsp of KABF and with the same amount of water until I reached full activation again. I added another 1/2 Tbsp of KABF, same amount of water and had, after 30 mins of having it stored in a warm spot, again at full activation.

I degassed it, let it rise again and added it to my regular formula. The consistency was almost exact with what you see in the video. But then again, we won't really know because other factors, which are not mentioned or showed in the video I'm sure, play a role.

Quote
The only thing that matters is your method.

I cannot agree more. It's the only thing that's important...the love you put into any food you're making.

I shot a short video of the preferment I made and you can judge for yourself if I somewhat came close to what's shown in the AM vid or not. (Lighting isn't too great, though)

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

#### Mo

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2009, 09:45:09 AM »
It's hard to know what number of dough balls Anthony made each day that he was open because his hours on Thursday and Friday were 5 PM until the dough ran out and on Saturday and Sunday from noon until the dough ran out. That leads me to believe that he made different amounts of dough for Thursdays and Fridays and for Saturdays and Sundays. However, 100 pizzas a night is a number I have seen before, for example, in the October 2007 article at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/02/FD9HS7D6R.DTL. Maybe that is for Thursdays and Fridays.

Peter

I am surprised to hear such a low number of pizzas being made for one night, especially when (from what I've heard) he was turning people away regularly. Doesn't that seem odd to anybody else? He couldn't have been making much money with 100 pies a night.

#### Mo

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2009, 09:50:44 AM »
As an FYI, I had one of the most bizarre pizza moments of my life on Saturday.

I attended the Pieman's Craft event at Motorino Manhattan (old Una Pizza Napoletana space) and to make a long story short, just after the event was over I was briefly standing outside with Mangieri alone, with the full intent of mentioning the curiosity sparked by the Naturally Risen video and what the flour put in the blue bucket was for and, more importantly, I also wanted to inquire if only old dough from the day before leaven the current day's dough and, if so, what amount (by percent of formula flour or total weight, whichever he was using as a reference when making dough) it was used in.

I have also heard mentioned, and I cannot place the source anymore, that Mangieri "used a starter which was now 12 years old". This was a few years ago and may not be part of the process anymore, but I also wanted to inquire if a natural yeast starter was maintained and used to inoculate a preferment at some point of the process in lieu of, or in combination with old dough.

Just before I talked to him it struck me, literally out of nowhere and quite powerfully, that for some reason I didn't want to know (even if he would talk about it), that I enjoyed the mystery of it more than knowing. It was an awkward moment (and I am a blabbermouth not afraid to talk with anyone) and I kind of just stalled for a second and simply thanked him for coming back to take part of the event and wished him luck in San Francisco, where he announced he is opening a new place by March of 2010.

I'm an incredibly curious person by nature and its very strange to have had that moment and still not be able to entirely explain why.....and yet I'm okay with that. Effing bizarre.

Just before I read your post I was thinking to myself, why doesn't somebody just "Ask Him!" And lo and behold, you had an opportunity to settle all of this speculation and opted for mystery instead. That's ok, really, he probably would have answered some of the questions and created new ones with his answers...Looks like a fun event, I really need to get to New York sometime...

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2009, 11:18:09 AM »
Like I said before, I watched the video numerous times and finally decided to take a leap of faith and try to recreate that poolish/preferment everyone sees Anthony pouring out of that rectangular tub/bucket.

When I saw that, I realized that one shouldn't stick to the order of scenes/sequences the video show us. It might be edited to achieve the most effect or educational value. What I mean by that is that that scene might have taken place the night before, meaning the poolish/starter preferment was made after the shop closes up and is left to do its job overnight - with the rest of the ingredients added the next day - in order to get the 24 hr fermentation of his dough Anthony always speaks of. At least that's what I'd do. And if he uses a starter (Ischia, I believe it is) he can still claim it's naturally leavened.

Mike,

Actually, to me the sequence of steps seems quite correct. Anthony measures out a specified quantity of flour from the 55-lb. bag of Caputo flour (for whatever reason not quite known), puts the rest of the flour into the mixer (presumably with the salt), and adds the dough mass from the rectangular tub to the bowl, followed by the water (no doubt there are several water addition steps since the amount shown would not be enough for 47-48 pounds of flour). After the dough has been kneaded, it is divided and scaled (possibly after a period of room temperature fermentation in shallow trays such as the one shown in the video). Further, if you compare the two videos showing Anthony at work, you will see that the rectangular tub appears to be shown in both videos. In the Pure and Simple video, which shows Anthony opening up his shop and starting to make his dough, you will see him hand mixing some kind of dough in that tub. I think you can make out a case that what is in that tub is a prefermented "old dough" leavened by his natural, regularly-refreshed starter (Marco believed that starter to be based on the Ischia but Anthony told me he was using a local wild yeast). You will also see from the Naturally Rising video that the glob of dough in the tub is about double that shown in the Pure and Simple video. That could represent the rise of the naturally leavened prefermented dough after about 24 hours--from the morning of one day to the morning of the next day (or some other corresponding points, such as when Anthony opened up his shop to make the dough).

I also agree with you (and with Bill) that what you do matters--arguably even more than what Anthony was doing at UPN. However, that doesn't detract from the fact that there are people out there, including many members of our forum, who want to know--in as much detail as possible--how Anthony was actually making his dough during his tenure at UPN. It may be out of curiosity in light of Anthony's widespread fame and notoriety, or because they loved him or his pizzas, but it may also be because they want to try to replicate his pizza dough for their own use, especially if they have the right type of oven. I personally would be very interested in seeing some of the members, especially those who ate some of Anthony's pizzas, try to do that and report back on their results and how they compared with Anthony's pizzas.

Peter

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2009, 05:06:59 PM »
I did some further investigative work on the other Edlund scale (a portion scale) used by Anthony, and the numbering scheme of the scale shown in the Naturally Risen video is the same as that shown on the first page of this Edlund pdf document: http://www.edlundco.com/pdf/FourStarScales_Sheet_051409.pdf. I zoomed in on the video and froze many frames and that numbering scheme is best shown at 1:30-1:32 in the video. At 1:34, it appears that the needle of the scale is around 10 ounces, which is the number Anthony gave me when I discussed this matter with him at UPN. For another scaling view showing a roughly 10-ounce dough ball, see the photo at http://www.doale.com/files/gimgs/13_unapizza_v2.jpg.

Peter

EDIT: To add the last sentence
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 02:49:56 PM by Pete-zza »

#### Mo

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2009, 05:27:18 PM »
I did some further investigative work on the other Edlund scale (a portion scale) used by Anthony, and the numbering scheme of the scale shown in the Naturally Risen video is the same as that shown on the first page of this Edlund pdf document: http://www.edlundco.com/pdf/FourStarScales_Sheet_051409.pdf. I zoomed in on the video and froze many frames and that numbering scheme is best shown at 1:30-1:32 in the video. At 1:34, it appears that the needle of the scale is around 10 ounces, which is the number Anthony gave me when I discussed this matter with him at UPN.

Peter

Man, ten ounces seems like a ton...but what do I know, the guy's famous, right?

#### Pete-zza

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##### Re: Anthony Mangieri Video
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2009, 06:09:22 PM »
Man, ten ounces seems like a ton...but what do I know, the guy's famous, right?

Mo,

I didn't measure the size of my pizzas at UPN but most reports I have read say that the pizzas were 12", as did the UPN menu (http://www.flickr.com/photos/s4xton/2595714004/). For a 10 ounce dough ball, that translates to a thickness factor of 0.0884. The VPN specifies a dough ball weight of between 180-250 grams (http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/VPN_spec.html), and the U.S. VPN charter specifies a maximum pizza diameter of 35 cm., or 13.8" (http://www.anticapizzeria.net/vpn/charter.html). Marco (pizzanapoletana) said that a 250 gram dough ball would make a 30 cm. diameter pizza, or around 12" (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,861.msg8959/topicseen.html#msg8959). As you can see, there are many possible variations in terms of dough ball weights and corresponding pizza sizes, but if we use Marco's 250 gram dough ball (8.82 ounces) for a 30 cm. (11.81") pizza, the corresponding thickness factor is 0.0804.

At the time that UPN closed, Anthony was charging around \$21 for a pizza, which did not go over well with many of his customers, even the devoted ones. Maybe he felt that he had to give customers something for their money. I don't think he could have gone thinner or smaller.

Peter