Where to go from here?

[Grilling24x7]

Hello!
While I'm not new to making a homemade pizza, I am new to the types of dough and styles of pizza that I am seeing on this board.  Before I ask for comments and suggestions to make my current pie better let me state my purpose.  I have two main goals from joining this board: 

1.  I would like some comments on how to improve my current pizza. 
2.  I want to learn how to make these amazing looking NY style pizzas that I see around here.

So to begin, this post will deal with #1.  For the past 4 years my wife and I have been making a really nice whole wheat crust pizza.  Now before this gets moved to the whole wheat section let me say that I am not against removing the whole wheat!  I just want some suggestions from people who may not be whole wheat lovers so I have posted it here.

Let me describe our current pizza and post some pictures and then if anyone has any comments or sees ways to improve this, please let me know.  I am not afraid of criticism b/c I know that this is a quick and dirty pizza.  I want to take my skills learned from the below pizza and use them with your recipes (and my new pizza stone and peel that I just ordered!).

Here goes:

For the whole wheat dough:
1 pkg rapid rise yeast
1 cup wheat flour
1 cup AP flour
1/4 tsp kosher salt
1/2 cup warm water and some extra if needed
1 T extra virgin olive oil

-stir yeast with the 1/4 cup of water- stand 5 min.
-combine flours and salt - stir in yeast mixture + oil. 
-add enough water to make a moderately stiff dough.  cover and rise for 15 min at room temp.  knead 2 or 3 times
and stretch out onto a pizza pan.   
-bake at 450 for 10 min then add toppings and bake again for another 10 minutes.

Our sauce is a can of Don Peppino's sauce, which I am highly fond of.  Our cheese mixture was 1/2 Monterey jack and 1/2 mozz.  Then crushed red pepper, oregano, basil, and pepperonis are used for the topping.

So I'd love to hear people's comments.  Just keep in mind that I am aware this isn't a 2 day rise, pizza stone, 500 degree, high gluten flour amazing NY style pizza.  I'll be working on that once my new toys come (stone and peel).  I'm just curious as to whether anyone can provide some comments on improving this really easy and awesome pizza!

Thanks!

[charbo]

Griller,

That recipe is amazing.  You could have a much better pizza, if you were willing to start at least 2-3 hours before baking.  Pete could probably point you to a same-day recipe somewhere on the forum.  Just add a little more water for the whole wheat.

Otherwise, this is what I’d try, given the parameters of 1 cup each of WW and AP and 2.5 hours.  This recipe is based on measuring the flour as follows: stir and fluff the flour in the bag; lift it with a spoon into a measuring cup; tap the cup once with the spoon; level with a straight edge.

   a.  Make a sponge as follows:  Mix 1 tsp of instant dry yeast  (like Rapid Rise) with the cup of whole wheat flour.  Heat six fluid ounces of water to about 120°F.  Mix the water and flour and set aside for an hour.

   b.  Stir in half tsp salt.  Stir in a quarter cup of AP flour.  Stir in 2 tsp oil.  Continue stirring in AP flour until the dough starts to become stiff, then stir for a few minutes more.  Turn out on board and knead in the remaining flour.  Dough should be tacky.  Cover dough and set at warm room temp for an hour.

   c.  Preheat oven to 550°F.  If you’re using a solid, shiny-bottomed pan, don’t.  Get a darkened pan with small holes.  Go easy on the toppings, especially the center.  Shape, top, and place in oven.  After a minute, lower temp to 450°F.  I’m guessing the pie will cook in about 8-9 minutes.

cb

[PizzaHog]

Hey Griller
I have to agree with charbo - your quick and dirty recipe yielding an awesome pie is already amazing.  As far as better goes, I think you already touched on some things to try in your post to see if you feel it improves it for you.  I have no experience with whole wheat but assuming all doughs go thru the same processes, you could try any method that creates a longer fermentation period to see what flavor or texture changes that brings.  Maybe cut way back on the yeast, make the dough cold, then throw it in the fridge for a few days or more.  Charbo's sponge/poolish is another idea along that line.  I wonder if giving it a pan rise prior to baking would make a diff?  Baking on a diff medium than a pan or adding 10% semolina might change the crunch/texture.  Or you could try to move more in the direction of a NY-Nea pie by increasing the hydration, making it thinner, and baking at a higher temp.  I just depends on what you like or what you would like more or less of.  You already got a winner and it looks great and that's a wonderful thing.

[Pete-zza]

Pete could probably point you to a same-day recipe somewhere on the forum.

With the amount of yeast and the warm water that Grilling24x7 is using, it is already a short-time, or "emergency" dough. I agree with the others that increasing the fermentation time might yield more crust flavor, but to do that Grilling 24x7 would have to reduce the amount of yeast quite considerably or, alternatively, punch the dough down a few times during the course of the room-temperature fermentation. Adding a bit of honey might also help feed the yeast with simple sugars during fermentation and also increase crust coloration but that might not really be needed with the use of the whole wheat flour.

In some respects, I view this as "if it ain't broke, why fix it"? The pizza looks great as it is.

Peter

[Grilling24x7]

Thanks for everyone's responses!  I will certainly give these ideas a try while also realizing that this pizza 'isn't broke!'   

I am using a dark pan with holes in the bottom now.  My Fibrament baking stone is on the way so I can also attempt to do this pie on a stone, however, when my stone comes this kitchen will be pumping out some NY style doughs!

The first thing I want to try for this pizza is the extended rise and maybe an o/n fridge rise.  I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again!

John

[Ronzo]

John,

Have you had time to try it on the stone yet?

[Grilling24x7]

John,

Have you had time to try it on the stone yet?

In fact I have, but there was an issue with the dough.  My wife spilled water in the flour mix and the ratio was all messed up.  We went ahead with it anyway.  It turned out OK, but we need to try it again.

Last night however we did it the normal way (pan with holes) and it was awesome.  I forgot how much I love this pizza.  For the past few weeks i've been doing the Lehmann doughs.

Here's a pic of our messed up whole wheat pie from the stone.

[Grilling24x7]

Just to be complete I should say that I have tried this recipe on a stone now (with the correct amount of ingrediants) and I don't like it as much as when I cook it on the pizza pan with holes.   The problem is that the dough is so wet you can't form it at all.  The only way to form this dough is to plop it on a greased baking pan and push outward.  It sticks even to a heavily floured pizza peel.

So I think from now on this baby will stay on the pizza pan.  It is what it is  - a quick and easy pretty good whole wheat pizza. 


John

[SteveInOakland]

Just to be complete I should say that I have tried this recipe on a stone now (with the correct amount of ingrediants) and I don't like it as much as when I cook it on the pizza pan with holes.   The problem is that the dough is so wet you can't form it at all.  The only way to form this dough is to plop it on a greased baking pan and push outward.  It sticks even to a heavily floured pizza peel.

So I think from now on this baby will stay on the pizza pan.  It is what it is  - a quick and easy pretty good whole wheat pizza. 


John

Try pushing the dough out on a sheet of parchment paper on top of a cookie sheet (back) or a large peel, that has been lightly dusted with flour.  Then slide the paper and pizza onto the stone, after 3-4 min lift the edge of the pizza with peel and pull out paper, it should come out easy and turn the pie 180 degrees to brown evenly.  This may make the stickier dough work for you.  Try it.

[Grilling24x7]

I want to add a little warning to this dough recipe:

Sometimes this dough recipe makes a really nice pizza!  However, sometimes I mess around with it and when I do it is not good. 

Here's what not to do:

Do not knead the dough! 
Do not attempt to roll this dough into a ball, when you mix it with a spoon just leave it rough and blob looking for the rise.
Make sure you have a warm house to rise in.  This is such a short rise that if its chilly in your house the crust will be more cracker like, rather than a nice bouncy risen crust.
No stone - use a pan.

If anyone actually tries this recipe I'd love to hear your comments.  To me, I eat this recipe every OTHER week.  One week I do a Lehmann dough and then the next week my wife makes this one.  If it were up to me I'd have a NY style every week!  But that isn't the way it is! 
John