Author Topic: 18" NY Pizza crust  (Read 12144 times)

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Yvonne Marie

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18" NY Pizza crust
« on: February 23, 2005, 10:21:31 PM »
Hello! I am new to this site and I am so glad I found it!I love pizzas and I been wanting to make an 18" pizza. Can anyone be so kind as to share me a recipe ? Thank you and God Bless

Yvonne


Offline friz78

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2005, 11:59:39 PM »
Welcome Yvonne!  An 18" pizza?  You gotta take some pictures of that baby when it's done!!
Friz

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2005, 05:46:15 AM »
Yvonne,

First of all, you will want to be sure that your oven can handle an 18-inch pizza. Most can't or it will be a very tight fit. If your oven can handle that size, do you have a stone or tiles that can accommodate that size or will you be using an 18-inch screen?

If you are one of the lucky ones and can make the 18-inch, let me know and I will reformulate the Lehmann NY style recipe to give you the ingredients and quantities you might want to use.

Peter


Offline canadave

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2005, 12:10:15 PM »
Yvonne,

As Pete said, most ovens won't accomodate an 18" pizza (I would give my left arm to have an oven that big).  The biggest NY pizza I can make is about 17", if I really stretch it and get it perfectly off my pizza peel into my oven.

As far as recipes go, if you click the "Pizza Making" logo in the top left side of your screen, you'll be taken to this site's home page, which lists several recipes, including NY pizza.  I don't believe the modified Lehmann recipe Pete mentioned is up there yet though, and it's a good one, so you might want to hold out for that one :)

Good luck! :)

Dave

Offline Steve

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2005, 12:30:33 PM »
I don't believe the modified Lehmann recipe Pete mentioned is up there yet though, and it's a good one, so you might want to hold out for that one :)

Here's the "work in progress"

http://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann_nystyle.php

I need someone to help me put Peter's information into the recipe.  :-\

Peter??  ;)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 12:46:53 PM »
Steve,

I will do it.

For the single size pizza, I think that the 16-inch recipe may be the best recipe to use since it is more characteristic of a NY style than the smaller sizes. That's the recipe I reworked for Friz to use and it sounds like he and others have had good results with it. I also think that the description should be reworked to conform to home use, using a stand mixer.

Will that be OK as a starting point?

Peter

Offline Steve

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2005, 12:53:25 PM »
Peter,

Take the reins and run with it! I'd like to keep the page somewhat simple and uncluttered, like DKM's Chicago Page. Maybe a paragraph or two of commentary but we'll need step-by-step instructions and lots of pictures (a picture is worth a thousand words, you know!) I'd like to keep the ingredient table as close as possible to what's there which includes a single pizza by weight and volume and the bulk recipe.

Thanks Peter!

Offline canadave

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 12:56:10 PM »
Hey, great stuff guys! :)  Can't wait to see the final version.

Dave

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 01:08:22 PM »
Steve,

OK. It may take me a little while since I am just about out of KASL and need to reorder.

Peter


Yvonne Marie

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2005, 02:13:32 AM »
Hello, thanks for replying. Yes I will try to use the single crust recipe  you mentioned and let you know. Being a baker, my oven is enough for 18" pizza. I just want to create something more then the usual cakes and pastries. I will probably be using unglazed tiles. Best regards

Yvonne

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 03:10:18 PM »
Yvonne,

I will reformulate the original Lehmann NY style dough recipe for high hydration (63%) for an 18-inch. I will post the recipe at the Lehmann thread, along with the other Lehmann NY style dough recipes, at Reply #105 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.100.html.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 02:37:18 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline D.C. Pizza Master

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2005, 11:13:15 PM »
dont understand what all the fuss is about..if you want an 18 inch pizza just stretch it out 18 inches...as long as the weight of your individual ball is 180 grams to 200 grams you should be fine

Offline snowdy

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2005, 03:16:02 AM »
dont understand what all the fuss is about..if you want an 18 inch pizza just stretch it out 18 inches...as long as the weight of your individual ball is 180 grams to 200 grams you should be fine

thanks master!!!!!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2005, 09:18:59 AM »
DC Pizza Master,

The recipe for the 18-inch pizza dough is one I scaled down from a commercial recipe of Tom Lehmann, an expert on pizza dough at the American Institute of Baking and a frequent writer on the subject. The recipe is for a NY style pizza using high-gluten flour (around 14% protein). If my conversions are correct, a dough ball weighing 150 grams would come to a bit over 5 ounces and a dough ball weighing 200 grams would come to a bit over 7 ounces. Both would be far below what is typically used for a NY style dough.

Maybe you can clarify.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 10:16:19 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline D.C. Pizza Master

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2005, 12:00:00 PM »
DC Pizza Master,

The recipe for the 18-inch pizza dough is one I scaled down from a commercial recipe of Tom Lehmann, an expert on pizza dough at the American Institute of Baking and a frequent writer on the subject. The recipe is for a NY style pizza using high-gluten flour (around 14% protein). If my conversions are correct, a dough ball weighing 150 grams would come to a bit over 5 ounces and a dough ball weighing 200 grams would come to a bit over 7 ounces. Both would be far below what is typically used for a NY style dough.

Maybe you can clarify.

Peter

ok well i make a pizza called the Pizza Italiana....thats the name given to the most popular pizza eaten in italy. ....usually to make the pizza italiana you only need to weigh the ball around 180 grams...then you simply open it up 12 inches, the standard size...however if i want to open up the pizza even more...i can probably get it to over 20 inches...i think the confusion here is that many people dont know how to properly open up a pizza.... ive seen people pick up the pizza in their hands  and begin to pull it apart? what the heck is that...no one in italy when making a thin crust pizza does that...the way to open up a pizza by hand is to pull it apart on the counter top...the only time it leaves the counter is when your getting rid of the flour


how much dough is weighed for single New York pizza in grams





Offline pftaylor

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2005, 12:15:59 PM »
DC PM,
What type of flour can you stretch to 20" with such a small ball? I assume you are referring to an Italian flour such as Caputo 00.

My experience with Caputo 00 (Blue label) is that it is too soft to flip in the air. That action would probably cause a tear. So pressing it out on the bench makes sense. On the other hand, high protein flour based balls can be hand tossed with little fear of tearing.

I just made a batch of Caputo 00 dough using a modified verison of Pete-zza's authentic Napoletana recipe and would be interested in cutting down on the ball size to make a 15" - 16" pizza. What weight would you suggest? One of the benefits to me of using a smaller ball is to cut down on the extra carbs associated with the lower protein level of the Caputo flour.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2005, 02:24:28 PM »
DC Pizza Master,

NY style pizzas come in different sizes but a common size is the 16-inch size. Different pizza operators also use different dough ball weights for the 16-inch size, from around 20 oz. to 26 oz. A dough ball weighing 20 oz. would be around 567 grams, and a dough ball weighing 26 oz. would be around 737 grams.

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2005, 03:00:10 PM »
pft,

When I originally posted the recipe for the Caputo 00 as received from Caputo via the importer, I added up all the ingredients as specified in ounces. The total came to about 54 oz. Since the recipe talks about individual dough ball weights of 8-9 oz., this suggests that one can make 6 to 7 pizzas with the 54 ounces of dough. If each dough ball is to be made into a pizza with a diameter of about 10 inches (or a radius of 5 inches), as suggested in the recipe, then the thickness factor for such a pizza is around 0.10 (for an 8-oz. dough ball) or 0.11 (for a 9-oz. dough ball).

Using the 0.10-0.11 thickness factor as calculated above from the recipe itself, for a 15-inch size, you would need a dough ball weight of 3.14 x 7.5 x 7.5 x 0.10-0.11, or roughly 17.7-19.4 oz. For a 16-inch size, you would need 3.14 x 8 x 8 x 0.10-0.11, or roughly 20-22.1 oz.

It may well be that DC Pizza Maker is not following the same recipe for a Neapolitan style pizza, or he may be making it thinner, so it will be very interesting to get his take on what dough ball weight you will need.

Peter

Offline D.C. Pizza Master

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2005, 03:02:11 PM »
DC Pizza Master,

The recipe for the 18-inch pizza dough is one I scaled down from a commercial recipe of Tom Lehmann, an expert on pizza dough at the American Institute of Baking and a frequent writer on the subject. The recipe is for a NY style pizza using high-gluten flour (around 14% protein). If my conversions are correct, a dough ball weighing 150 grams would come to a bit over 5 ounces and a dough ball weighing 200 grams would come to a bit over 7 ounces. Both would be far below what is typically used for a NY style dough.

Maybe you can clarify.

Peter


im sure this guy is an expert on New York Style....i guess im getting wrapped in the version of pizza that I make...the Pizza Italiana where i only need to use 180 gram ball to make a 12 to 16 inch pizza if i want

i think it would help me more Pete if you described to me the characteristics of a New York Style Pizza....isnt the New York Style thin crust yet with enough hold to serve by the slice? it also has puffy borders right?   im guessing the New York style pizza emphasizes on having a 500 plus gram ball to make a pizza because either 1) the amount of grams helps the pizza hold firm when customers pick it up to eat OR 2) pizza makers in american do not know the proper and andvanced methods to opening up a pizza and therefore need alot of dough to work with?

Offline D.C. Pizza Master

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2005, 03:04:50 PM »
DC PM,
What type of flour can you stretch to 20" with such a small ball? I assume you are referring to an Italian flour such as Caputo 00.

My experience with Caputo 00 (Blue label) is that it is too soft to flip in the air. That action would probably cause a tear. So pressing it out on the bench makes sense. On the other hand, high protein flour based balls can be hand tossed with little fear of tearing.

I just made a batch of Caputo 00 dough using a modified verison of Pete-zza's authentic Napoletana recipe and would be interested in cutting down on the ball size to make a 15" - 16" pizza. What weight would you suggest? One of the benefits to me of using a smaller ball is to cut down on the extra carbs associated with the lower protein level of the Caputo flour.

it doesnt matter what type of flour you use....I can open up a pizza with any flour...be it. King Arthur Special, caputo, Sir Lancelot, 5 stagioni(only found in italy), King Arthur whole weat

it matters on HOW you open the pizza....its hard to explain in a forum the hand techniques to opening up a pizza the proper italian way...but what i can tell you is that the dough should NEVER leave the marble counter except when your slapping away the excess flour

Offline pftaylor

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2005, 03:09:23 PM »
DC PM,
If you would try and get as close as possible, with words, to describing your technique I'm sure the forum membership would immensely appreciative. I know I would. If you have pictures then all the better. Either way, we all want to learn new techniques and it sounds as if yours is worth trying.

By the way, when I lived in McLean, Va I use to drive into the city to get my pie from a place on the corner of 6th and New York I think. It was the best in town at the time. It had red and white checkered tablecloths with an Italian family running it. Do you know what the name is and if it istill there?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 03:12:16 PM by pftaylor »
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Offline D.C. Pizza Master

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2005, 04:46:20 PM »
DC PM,
If you would try and get as close as possible, with words, to describing your technique I'm sure the forum membership would immensely appreciative. I know I would. If you have pictures then all the better. Either way, we all want to learn new techniques and it sounds as if yours is worth trying.

By the way, when I lived in McLean, Va I use to drive into the city to get my pie from a place on the corner of 6th and New York I think. It was the best in town at the time. It had red and white checkered tablecloths with an Italian family running it. Do you know what the name is and if it istill there?

A.V. Ristorante?

i think thats the place.....ive never tried their pizzas

but ill tell you what man

the name of our restaurant is

Sorriso Restaurant
3518 connecticut avenue

my name is Stefano

if you come in..ill show you how its done.....because descibring the process is impossible..let me see if i can get some pics or something like that

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2005, 07:07:08 PM »
D.C. Pizza Master,

I live in Texas and only get to NYC once in a while, so I will never be an "expert" on NY style pizza. But a lot of the members on this forum, especially those who grew up in the city, have taught me a fair amount about the NY style pizza.

Most of what you have said about the NY style pizza is correct. Most of the NY style pizzas are around 16-18 inches in diameter. Once in a while a pizza operator will want to show off and make a pizza over 20 inches, but that is not common. The crust of the NY style pizza is thin, a bit leathery and chewy. The rim (il cornicione) can be small or large, but I am told that the rim is more often small rather than large. When a NY style pizza is cut into slices, the tip will droop when you hold a slice by the rim. The slice can be folded in half, usually lengthwise, but I understand that some fold the slice from tip to rim. I believe the Italians would refer to these techniques as a libretto or portafoglio.

The NY style pizza most often uses high-gluten flour (around 14% protein), which contributes to the texture of the crust and, to a degree, to its color. A high-gluten crust will also lend itself better to holding a lot of toppings, which is much more common in the U.S. than in Italy, from what I can tell.

Most skilled American pizzaioli seem to be able to expand the dough into a fairly large disk without much difficulty, using their knuckles and spinning and tossing to do so. Your technique reminds me of the way that phyllo dough and strudel dough used to be made-entirely on a table, by stretching and pulling the dough outwardly gradually, drooping it over the edges of the table, all without much lifting. That's become a lost art.

I hope this gives you a better idea of the NY style. If I have left anything important out, my colleagues at the forum will set me straight.

Peter

Offline D.C. Pizza Master

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2005, 09:35:31 PM »
D.C. Pizza Master,

I live in Texas and only get to NYC once in a while, so I will never be an "expert" on NY style pizza. But a lot of the members on this forum, especially those who grew up in the city, have taught me a fair amount about the NY style pizza.

Most of what you have said about the NY style pizza is correct. Most of the NY style pizzas are around 16-18 inches in diameter. Once in a while a pizza operator will want to show off and make a pizza over 20 inches, but that is not common. The crust of the NY style pizza is thin, a bit leathery and chewy. The rim (il cornicione) can be small or large, but I am told that the rim is more often small rather than large. When a NY style pizza is cut into slices, the tip will droop when you hold a slice by the rim. The slice can be folded in half, usually lengthwise, but I understand that some fold the slice from tip to rim. I believe the Italians would refer to these techniques as a libretto or portafoglio.

The NY style pizza most often uses high-gluten flour (around 14% protein), which contributes to the texture of the crust and, to a degree, to its color. A high-gluten crust will also lend itself better to holding a lot of toppings, which is much more common in the U.S. than in Italy, from what I can tell.

Most skilled American pizzaioli seem to be able to expand the dough into a fairly large disk without much difficulty, using their knuckles and spinning and tossing to do so. Your technique reminds me of the way that phyllo dough and strudel dough used to be made-entirely on a table, by stretching and pulling the dough outwardly gradually, drooping it over the edges of the table, all without much lifting. That's become a lost art.

I hope this gives you a better idea of the NY style. If I have left anything important out, my colleagues at the forum will set me straight.

Peter

thankyou for the information....

yes....the way i open up the pizza is like this......taylor..ok ill try to describe it for you

1st phase:using only your fingers and with both hands press down from the top center of the pizza to the bottom center..then come up the left side of the dough with your left hand..and the right side of the dough with your right hand..continue these steps until your dough is shaped is a circle...MAKE SURE THE DOUGH IS EVENLY DISTRIBUTED AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU DONT PRESS THE DOUGH OUTSIDE OF ITS BORDERS...ALWAYS WORK WITHIN THE BORDERS

2nd phase: using your both hands..place in the inside the pizza....now with your right hand...use your palm to turn push outwards the right hand side of the pizza but WITHIN THE BORDERS...now with your left land..keep it towards the center left hand side of the dough..simply use palm to push slightly and to guide the pizza (WITHIN BORDERS) which should be turning around counterclockwise..do this until the pizza is about 8 inches in diameter...

3rd phase:pick your dough up and smack it around using your left and right hands in a fast motion so you can get rid of any excess flour

4th phase: repeat phase 2 except that your letting the pizza hang off the marble countertop(this helps aid in the opening) when you think your pizza is big enough lets say 12 inches..simply guide your pizza off the edge and fully on to countertop

thats it

by the way..as i was posting this...i decided to go downstairs and try to make a big pizza..using 180 grams..i was able to make an 18 1/2 inch pizza just for fun

Offline snowdy

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Re: 18" NY Pizza crust
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2005, 04:08:03 AM »
Pizza Master.

Im headed to DC in May. Where is your restaraunt? I would love to come check it out. Im headed there with family.

L8r!  8)