Author Topic: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures  (Read 8015 times)

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Offline bfguilford

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2013, 10:20:53 AM »
I have always used a more gradual process to activate starters. I'm not saying this is the best way... just that it works well for me.

When I activated my Ischia, I aimed for low 80s temperature throughout the process. I used a method that I learned when I activated my first starter several years ago.

I fed it 4 times a day for the first 2 days, using smaller amounts (1 tbs of flour plus water at a 50/50 ratio by weight. On day 3, I started to discard 1/4 cup of starter and feed it 2-3 times a day with 1/4 cup flour and water at 50/50 by weight) for the next 3 days. Then I upped the amount of flour to 1/3 cup, and discard/fed it 2-3 times a day for the rest of that first week. It became very well established with that discard/feed cycle. I don't keep more than a cup or so of starter in the fridge at any time (I just don't use that much). Most people go to larger volumes of flour/water more quickly, but this method has worked for others who were having trouble with their Ischia (see http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22697.msg230257.html#msg230257).

Hope that helps, and good luck.

Barry
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Offline shff1984

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2013, 12:59:06 AM »
Sorry for the long delay... Here are some pics from the Ischia culture.  I used King Arthur bread flower and a pizza recipe I got from this website

Flour: 100%
Water: 60%
IDY: 1%
Salt: 9%
Wild Yeast Culture (Ischia): 8%


Offline shff1984

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2013, 01:13:13 AM »
These pizza pics were from April 13.  I was really sick that weekend, I thought I caught a normal cold until I got a really bad fever.  Anyway, I remember tasting some sourness but I was in no condition to really taste anything.  My wife, who was not sick said that she really liked the flavor. 

I baked this one in the oven.  I preheated the stone for 20-30 minutes and it turned out to be a disaster.  I should have been patient and waited an hour.  Upon inspection I thought the pizza was done but it turned out raw in the middle. The outer 3" or so were still edible though.  I think next time I'll go to a non bleached all purpose flour.  When I do I'll post more pics and possible have more information and opinion about the taste. :pizza:

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 08:37:03 AM »
Flour: 100%
Water: 60%
IDY: 1%
Salt: 9%
Wild Yeast Culture (Ischia): 8%
shff1984,

Is there a typo with the amount of salt?

Peter

Offline shff1984

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2013, 01:26:47 AM »
No miss calculation.  Maybe I copied it down or calculated it wrong.  It is from Pizza Raquel (April 25, 2005 post).

Offline shff1984

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2013, 01:31:45 AM »
Just found the post and you were right, hear it is:

Weight                                  Volume                                         Description                     Bakers Percent
16   oz/  456  Grams      3 1/3 cups                                   KASL High Gluten Flour                   100%     
9.6  oz/  273  Grams      1 1/8 cups or 9 fluid oz               Water                                                60%     
.01  oz/ .285  Grams         1/8 teaspoon (baker's pinch)   Instant Dry Yeast                         .0625%     
.32  oz/  9.1   Grams      2 1/4 teaspoon                           Sicilian Sea Salt (fine cut)                    2%
1.3  oz/  37    Grams      2  tablespoons (heaping)            Preferment (I use Varasano)              8%
27.23oz/775.385 Grams

I mixed up the grams with the percentages.  I also rounded the IDY up to 1%.  Unfortunately my digital scale only measures to the nearest gram so I rounded it in my notes.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2013, 09:21:31 AM »
Just found the post and you were right, hear it is:

Weight                                  Volume                                         Description                     Bakers Percent
16   oz/  456  Grams      3 1/3 cups                                   KASL High Gluten Flour                   100%     
9.6  oz/  273  Grams      1 1/8 cups or 9 fluid oz               Water                                                60%     
.01  oz/ .285  Grams         1/8 teaspoon (baker's pinch)   Instant Dry Yeast                         .0625%     
.32  oz/  9.1   Grams      2 1/4 teaspoon                           Sicilian Sea Salt (fine cut)                    2%
1.3  oz/  37    Grams      2  tablespoons (heaping)            Preferment (I use Varasano)              8%
27.23oz/775.385 Grams

I mixed up the grams with the percentages.  I also rounded the IDY up to 1%.  Unfortunately my digital scale only measures to the nearest gram so I rounded it in my notes.
shff1984,

If you rounded the IDY up to 1%, then the 1% IDY is about 1.5 teaspoons, as compared with the pinch of IDY called for in the dough formulation you posted. If you meant that you rounded the 0.0625% IDY to 0.10%, then that would be less than 1 gram (it would be 0.456 grams). If you used 1.5 teaspoons IDY, I would expect that that amount of IDY would overtake the 8% preferment.

You might consider the method described by Craig recently at Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24969.msg251938.html#msg251938.

Peter

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2013, 09:28:49 AM »
There is perhaps nothing in the life of a sourdough pizzamaker more freeing than the realization that you don't need to use ANY baker's yeast.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline shff1984

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2013, 01:39:06 PM »
Pete, I didn't round the percentage, I rounded the yeast to one gram because my scale only has one gram increments.  Sorry for the typo.  I really need to pay attention to what I post for clear communication.  Craig's technique for yeast percentages is also a very logical way to measure yeast.  Thank you both for replying to my post.  I know you are a very active members who help people all over the web.

Ok, so today I am making a sourdough pizza recipe with King Arthur unbleached all purpose flour and I decided to switch recipes.  This seems to be a good decision because the Pizza Raquel recipe I was using actually required King Arther Sir Lancelot flour, which I do not have.  I'm currently trying to decide where I should order from.  I'll most likely order directly from King Arthur.

Because I'm using KA unbleached all purpose flour I found this recipe on the KA website for a sourdough pizza using their unbleached all purpose flour:

    1 cup sourdough starter, unfed (straight from the fridge)
    1/2 cup hot tap water
    2 1/2 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
    1 teaspoon salt
    1/2 teaspoon instant yeast
    4 teaspoons Pizza Dough Flavor, optional but delicious (I did not use any pizza dough flavoring)

Directions

see this recipe's blog

1) Stir any liquid into the sourdough starter, and spoon 1 cup starter into a mixing bowl.

2) Add the hot water, flour, salt, yeast, and Pizza Dough Flavor. Mix to combine, then knead till smooth and slightly sticky, about 7 minutes at medium speed using a stand mixer with dough hook. Place the kneaded dough in a lightly greased container, and allow it to rise till it's just about doubled in bulk. This might take 2 to 4 hours; it might take more. A lot depends on how vigorous your starter is. For a faster rise, place the dough somewhere warm (or increase the yeast). To slow it down, put it somewhere cool.

3) For two thinner-crust pizzas, divide the dough in half, shaping each half into a flattened disk. Drizzle two 12" round pizza pans with olive oil, tilting the pans to coat the bottom. Place half the dough in each pan. Cover, and let rest for 15 minutes. Gently press the dough towards the edges of the pans; when it starts to shrink back, cover it, and let it rest again, for about 15 minutes. Finish pressing the dough to the edges of the pans.

4) For a thicker-crust pizza, drizzle olive oil into a jelly roll pan (10" x 15") or half-sheet pan (18" x 13"), or similar sized pan; or a 14" round pizza pan, tilting the pan to coat with the oil. Shape the dough into a flattened disk or oval. Place it in the pan, cover it, and let it rest for 15 minutes. Push the dough towards the edges of the pan; when it starts to fight back, cover it and let it rest for 15 minutes. Finish pushing it to the edges of the pan.

5) Cover the pan, and let the dough rise till it's as thick as you like. For thin-crust pizza made from fairly fresh starter, this may only be an hour or so. For thick-crust, using an old, little-used starter, this may take most of the day. There are no hard-and-fast rules here; it all depends on the vigor of your starter, and how you like your crust. Once you make it a couple of times, you'll figure out what time frame works for you.

6) Towards the end of the rising time, preheat your oven to 450F.

7) For a thicker crust, pre-bake the crust for about 8 minutes before topping. Top, then bake till toppings are hot and cheese is melted and bubbly, about 10 minutes. For thin crusts, bake for 4 to 5 minutes, then top and bake for an additional 8 to 10 minutes, or till toppings are as done as you like.

8) Remove from the oven, and loosen the edges of the pizza with a table knife or heatproof spatula. Carefully lift it onto a cooling rack; you can serve it right from the pan, if desired, but a cooling rack helps keep its bottom crisp. Serve hot.

Yield: one 14" round, or rectangular thick-crust pizza; or two 12" round thin-crust pizzas.

Be aware of some sourdough dynamics here. The less-used your starter, the more liquid on top, the more sour it's likely to be; using a starter that hasn't been fed for weeks will yield a pizza crust that rises slowly, and tastes quite tangy. This type of crust is handy when you want to make dough in the morning, and have pizza ready for dinner. On the other hand, a starter that's fed regularly will yield a less-sour crust, one that will rise much more quickly. This is a great "weekend" crust, as you can shape it at 8 a.m., and have pizza for lunch.



This recipe is specifically designed for the flour I'm using and maybe it will give me a better judgment of what the Ishcia culture tastes like.  If it turns out good I will have eliminated the complications of substituting different flours for different recipes.  Also, the dough was not mixed the same as the KA instructions.  Instead I used Jeff Varasano's Advice on his website for the Autolyse and wet kneading technique.  1/4 cup of extra water was used also.  This is what I have after mixing:



Offline shff1984

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Re: Camaldoli and Ischia Sourdough Cultures
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2013, 01:45:57 PM »
I almost forgot, I took my Ishcia culture out last Thursday and started feeding it every 12 hours to activate it.  The Jar of culture in the picture is my older jar of Ischia from when I split and refrigerated before my April 13th pizza.


 

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