Author Topic: Tried the Sir Lancelot Flour (Read 5664 times)

norma427 · « **on:** November 04, 2009, 09:38:51 AM »

I tried the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour yesterday. I made the dough on Monday and baked the pizzas yesterday. I had tried Pillsbury Balancer, All Trumps, Kyrol, and now Sir Lancelot. Because all the other flours were bromated except the KASL, I was wondering how the pizza would turn out.
I found that the KASL performed about the same as the other flours. The only difference I noticed was it was a little more extensible. I had to be careful when opening the dough to not get thin spots. Other than that it handled great. I was well satisfied with the KASL.
The crust had a little more yellow color. It didn't seem to have as much open holes, but still was okay.
My customers didn't seem to notice any difference. Different customers said the pizza was great and they would be back. I told different standholders that bought pizza, I was trying a new flour. They all said the crust was just as good as before.
I have also been experimenting with adding a little less 1/4 white cheddar to my mozzarella. I think the white cheddar gives the final pizza a better taste. You can see the difference by using white cheddar has in the finished pizza.
I am soon going to start making panini sandwiches and I tried to make some dough to form the panini's, yesterday. They turned out well, but I will have to do more experimenting before I start. I used about 5 oz. of dough for the panini. Just put in oven and let it puff. I want to make something like a flatbread, but thin for the panini's and I also want to make some focaccia to try for the panini sandwiches. Hopefully this week I will get the panini grill and be able to experiment more.
Here are a few pictures of the pizza and dough using the KASL.
Norma

Trogdor33 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2009, 10:54:25 AM »

Good looking pies!

Pretty much any King Arthur flour turns out a crust that's tinted yellow because it isn't bleached white as most flours are. I have had the over-extensibility problem with KASL as well and just made a batch last night using 61% hydration (I usually use 63%-64%) and 0.23% vitamin c. It seemed much more elastic than normal when I divided it, but I will post results when I bake.

-Joe

ThunderStik · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2009, 11:03:16 AM »

Thanks Norma, I will be trying the KASL shortly.

Art · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2009, 11:42:24 AM »

Curiosity got the best of me so I purchased (online) a 3 pound bag of KASL. With shipping, it cost me the best part of 10 bucks. I used it last weekend in 1 of 4 pies. Aside from a little more "chew", I didn't notice much difference. At well under $4 for a 5 pound bag, I'll continue using my usual KABF. Btw, the KASL dough was at 63% hydration; just like all my pizzas. Art

Trogdor33 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2009, 12:42:55 PM »

Art,

Depending on where you are, you may be able to find KASL in the 50# bags. I posted how I found my big bag here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9464.0.html In the 50# bag, KASL is far cheaper per pound than buying KABF from the grocery store.

-Joe

Ev · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2009, 01:21:48 PM »

I tasted Normas' pizza yesterday. I thought it was great but since it's been at least a month since I tried her pizza last, I really could not compare the two flours, with All Trumps being the previous. At any rate, Norma makes a great NY style pizza.

Norma, I went to the restaurant supply store you told me about and bought a nice thick 16 inch pizza stone. I also saw that they sell ADM High Gluten flour for 12.99 in 50# bags. I didn't think to check whether it is bleached and bromated though. They also have ADM bread flour for 10.99 and ADM all purpose for 9.99, both in 50# bags.

norma427 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:02:37 PM »

Trogor33,
Thanks for telling me what percent of ascorbic acid you use. I will try and find a place here that has a reasonable price and then try adding some to see what if it gives me more open holes. I had only made the dough around lunch time the day before and the longer the day went yesterday there were more open holes later yesterday. I guess the dough was more fermented. I will have to get over earlier in the morning and make my dough.
The place you talked about, (Dutch Valley Foods) is near me. I will have to see if their price is better than C.O. Nolt and Sons. I paid 19.00 for the 50 lb. bag of KASL.
Thanks for saying the pies looked good. I used 60% hydration.
Norma

ThunderStik,
Let me know how your dough performs when you try the KASL.

Ev,
Great to hear you found a 16" stone. Let me know how it works out. Thanks for giving me the can of 6 in 1's. I will let you know how I like those. Was good to talk to you, again and I was so involved in talking about pizza that I got my order messed up.

I did post a question before under ingredients about the ADM flour and no one answered. I know that flour is very cheap and had questioned the people there about the ADM and they said it compared with Pillsbury Balancer. They showed me a big chart and I forget if is bromated or non bromated. I am going there this week and will ask the question about if the flour is bromated.
Thanks for saying I made a great NY Style Pizza. I am still working on perfecting it, but that may be a lifetime thing.

There are still so many things to learn. Thanks to all the people on this forum to all the help they have been to me.
I will pick you up a bag of KASL the next time I go there.
Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2009, 08:31:07 AM »

Ev,
Was at the Restaurant Store, yesterday and the ADM High-Gluten flour is bromated.
Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2009, 11:28:30 AM »

Tried the KASL flour again this week and the only thing I did different was to replace the Fillippo Berrio Extra Light Olive Oil with Fillippo Berrio Regular Olive Oil. I don't know if it was just in the mixing or handling of the dough, but the regular olive oil crust seemed better. The dough wasn't as extensible and I didn't any trouble with getting thin spots. Many it was just me. Does anyone use different olive oils and see a difference in handling of the dough or taste of the crust?
I also started testing dough for panini's. I still am using the Lehmann dough recipe. I had posed a question on PMQ's think tank about using the dough for panini's. Tom Lehmann answered that I could use my regular dough, but it wouldn't be a true flatbread, because my regular baking temperature doesn't get to be around 700 degrees. I will be testing this for awhile and will post the results. The one picture is of the finished dough for the panini. I used 4.5 ounces of dough and just put it in the oven and then spritzed the dough to make it collapse. This is what Tom Lehmann instrusted me to do. I will try other recipes for panini in the future, also. I will post some pictures of the finished panini's in the future.
Norma

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2009, 11:43:55 AM »

Norma:

That panini reminds me of another kind of flatbread. Maybe you could make an Italian version of a chalupa?

That pizza still looks very good. The big test in my book is how does it tastes.

Some pizziaolo's will not use extra virgin olive oil in their doughs because they say the taste of the olive oil can often inpart itself too much to the final crust and therefore leave an overpowering or bitter taste. Yet so many recipes call for olive oil as an ingredient and clearly this is not a problem for many folks. It may mean the difference between using a less flavorful oil vs. EVOO. I rarely use olive oil (some in my Chicago deep dish recipe), but I find when I do, it doesn't seem to make a difference vs. when I didn't use it. I have never compared the extra virgin variety to a regular olive oil.

Jack · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2009, 04:28:10 PM »

Norma,

You will like the KASL once you get it dialed in. I'm just finishing a 50 pound sack of it and with our local reasonably priced source dried up, I bought a bag of Pendleton's high protein flour. I'm not excited by the switch, as I was really happy with KASL for NY Style dough and calzones, but I had no choice. There is an organic mill (Fairhaven Mills) about an hour north of us. I'll be checking them out shortly to see what they have.

Enjoy, it's great flour.

Jack, the former Lancaster guy

norma427 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2009, 07:14:38 PM »

Mad_Ernie,
The chalupa's sound great, but aren't they fried? I don't have an exhaust hood so I can't make anything fried. I did make Mexican food for awhile and I really enjoyed all the peppers and spices that go with making that kind of food.
The final crust did taste good. I never tasted a bitter taste in the crust, but will be on the look-out for that since you told me.

Thanks, Norma

Jack,
Good to hear you like the KASL. Let me know how you like the Pendleton high protein flour. It's always an adventure trying something new. My flour supplier has all kinds of flour and mills some of their own. Sometimes they don't have the KASL. I will call them in advance so they will have it.
It's good to hear from someone that knows the Lancaster area.
Thanks, Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2009, 11:08:35 PM »

Tried to make a video of forming the dough today using the KASL. Will be using it tomorrow and will post more pictures.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFItCH5VNw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFItCH5VNw</a>

Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:22:22 PM »

I had forgot last week to take out of the deli case two little 4.5 ounces of dough I was using to make panini's. I was doing something for the monthly challenge with one of my fresh doughs. I decided to try to use the dough that had been stored for a week. Since this month's challenge was Fall Harvest, I had enough ingredients to do more than one pie. I didn't think the dough would be usable because I don't add any sugar to my dough. I decided to give it a try.
I was pleasantly surprised how well the dough held up. It was a little hard opening the dough, but it turned out okay. This pie was about 10". My two little dough balls kinda blended together, so that is how I used them.
I had always wanted to get a more airy crust than my normal crusts and this was a success. I am still wondering how this dough held up so well.

I can finally see how a longer fermentation can make a more airy crust and of course it was more tasty.
I really don't know if this would work again, but left some more little balls in the deli case to try next week.
Norma

norma427 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2009, 07:29:14 AM »

Tried some more panini's with the KASL. The panini's made with the Lehmann recipe turned out better this week. I made 4 kinds to try and see what flavors I should sell. Vegetable-tomato, mozzarella, fresh pesto, and spinach, ham-ham, swiss cheese, mustard with horseradish, spinach, turkey-fresh turkey, mozzarella, spinach, fresh pesto and pizza-mozzarella, sauce, fresh pesto and pepperoni.
Will keep experimenting with these.

Mad_Ernie · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:27:29 AM »

Those look great, Norma! You need to start considering mail order (cause I want one!).

How long have you been letting your regular pizza dough balls ferment? I've gone from ~ 24 hours to 48 hours and noticed a difference in flavor (a good one) now that I have done that.

I've enjoyed reading your posts as you have grown in your pizza-making venture and other experiments. Keep those posts coming.

norma427 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:05:02 AM »

Mad_Ernie,
I have been making my pizza dough on Mondays and depending on when I am using the dough on Tuesdays is how long the dough is fermenting. It could be anywhere between 17 to 29 hours. I can see the difference in the crusts as the day goes on.
I had wanted to make dough on Fridays and then use on Tuesdays, but right now with our electric going up 30% or more by 2010, I really don't want to keep my deli case and pizza prep refrigerator both on, until I find out how much more my electric will be.
Cheese prices are rising again, too.
Thanks for saying you have enjoyed my posts and experiments. I have really loved learning about pizza making and will continue to learn.
Just stop in if you ever get to my area and I will give you some pizza.
Norma

ThunderStik · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:17:50 AM »

Wow Norma, those panini's look great.

As far as the long term ferm, yeah that is what I prefer. What I have found out is once you get the doughs out past 7-8 days the flavors just become outstanding and very complex. Good Job!

norma427 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:20:46 AM »

ThunderStik,
Do you have any suggestions how the dough was usable after 8 days and no sugar added to my standard Lehmann dough?
Norma

ThunderStik · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:46:04 AM »

While i dont know what your recipe was. IME it has to do with a small amount of yeast, not using a high hydration % and cold temps. Also though the balls are small. This helps greatly.

Because thay are small the balls cool exponentially faster than a ball for say a 16" or an 18". This doesnt give the yeast time to "gear up" and get the ferm process started.

I store my doughs like the pic below. I tried using regular glad containers but found because the plastic acts as an insulator as does the air trapped inside the container it takes a lot longer for the balls to get down to fridge temps. This makes a sizeable difference. Also when you add your yeast can make a large difference. On top of that if im remember correctly you dont use a long knead time. All these slight changes to a procedure can add up to make a large difference.

Your normal doughs are probably stored in boxes with other dough that are full of air that insulates them and helps keep the temps up for longer and I suspect these were not.

I use the method in the pic, I just oil the balls and the bowls and place the plastic wrap on the bowls/balls and tuck the wrap in around the balls. The oil on the bowl will make the wrap stick to the bowl sides. As the balls grow it just pulls up what plastic is needed but the seal stays good. This allows the surface of the balls to be directly exposed to the cold temps, the steel bowls transfer the temps really quickly also. This all allows the balls to cool quite quickly. A bonus is that it does away with the "skin" that forms on the outside of the balls.