sour dough based caputo recipe

[thezaman]

marc was nice enough to send me some ischia starter i have feed it three times and it is healthy can some one give the steps for a dough. 1000 grams of caputo 58 percent hydration . i have a hard time with any higher hydration . would like to start this tonight . thank, larry

[Matthew]

marc was nice enough to send me some ischia starter i have feed it three times and it is healthy can some one give the steps for a dough. 1000 grams of caputo 58 percent hydration . i have a hard time with any higher hydration . would like to start this tonight . thank, larry

Hi Larry,
I usually use 5% starter (total dough weight).  To keep the hydration rate @ 58% you need to first determine what % of your starter is water.  I use 3% salt (flour weight).  Bulk ferment about 18 hours @ 70-72 degrees.  Ball & proof for an additional 4-5 hours @ the same temp.
I don't do an autolyse as I don't feel that it makes a difference.

Good Luck
Matt

[thezaman]

matt, thanks for the quick response. marc had me do 75 grams of each i have 1000 g flour 580 g water 20 g salt for 2000 grams total weight 5% 100 grams do i subtract 50 from water and  50 from flour ? i am looking for a starting point.

[Matthew]

matt, thanks for the quick response. marc had me do 75 grams of each i have 1000 g flour 580 g water 20 g salt for 2000 grams total weight 5% 100 grams do i subtract 50 from water and  50 from flour ? i am looking for a starting point.

Yes that's correct. The easiest way to figure it out is to use the preferment dough calculating tool on this site.

Matt

[thezaman]

thanks ,my math was off the total weight was 1600 grams.

[Matthew]

thanks ,my math was off the total weight was 1600 grams.

Ya I figured something was off somewhere.  I replied from my iphone & was going to PM you.

Matt

[thezaman]

can anyone help with my dough schedule ? the dough is rising in bulk and i will get to it within 18 hours. can i form it into balls and refrigerate until i need them,allowing 4 to 6 hours to finish the proofing? sorry if it sounds like i don't know what i am doing, but i don't. we all have to start somewhere.

[Matthew]

can anyone help with my dough schedule ? the dough is rising in bulk and i will get to it within 18 hours. can i form it into balls and refrigerate until i need them,allowing 4 to 6 hours to finish the proofing? sorry if it sounds like i don't know what i am doing, but i don't. we all have to start somewhere.

Yes,  after the bulk rise you can form, let sit out for about 30-45 minutes & then refrigerate.  You can take them out 4-5 hours prior to using.

Matt

[thezaman]

my last question , can you treat a starter made dough like a yeast dough ? is the natural ferment more delicate and easily killed ?

[Matthew]

my last question , can you treat a starter made dough like a yeast dough ? is the natural ferment more delicate and easily killed ?

The main difference is the temperature of the fermentation. 
Apart from that you can treat it like a regular dough.  How would you kill it?

[thezaman]

by letting it sit out to long at room temperature , or exposure to salt to soon in the mixing process.

[Matthew]

by letting it sit out to long at room temperature , or exposure to salt to soon in the mixing process.

You are referring to overfermentation, just keep an eye on it.  You shouldn't have any issues unless you exceed 24 hours in the bulk stage.  I always dissolve my salt in water & add the starter after a couple of minutes of gradually adding flour, so am not sure what would happen by exposing your starter to direct salt.

Matt

[thezaman]

when i got to the dough this morning it had tripled but i knocked it down folded an made some 8 oz balls. i put it in the cooler and will bake them tonight. i didn't think a stater had the leavening power of yeast ,i was very wrong about that.

[thezaman]

 i was able to bake the sour dough pizzas tonight. the dough was a little  wetter than i am use to workin with.  it was jamming up my kitchen aid so i added some water, the hydration must of been 65 to 70 % it took a lot of bench flour to work the dough . i measured the external temp of the balls at 64 degrees i could work with it and it baked nicely, at 68 deg the dough was realy sticky and i wasted a couple of balls. the  flavor was sweet and tangy and complimented the olive oil and basil. it was very different in taste than the normal vpn recipe . enclosed are pics . my basil came in wilted and that was all i had on hand, so it takes away from the pizza in that it looks burnt . i am definitely going to see if i can keep this starter going  and get the dough  more workable.thanks, marc, and matt for your help . i love this forum!!

[widespreadpizza]

Zaman,  nice first attempt with the starter.  That starter is strong,  really strong,  so maybe you need to cut your percentage in half next time.  Many  timesfor me 5% is too much,  especially in the summer.  Finished dough temp has a lot to do with it.  You might consider just bringing the dough together with te KA then hand kneading it with some rest periods for a while,  or mix 75-85 percent of your flour for a while,  then hand wnead in the rest.   I really prefer the hydration at a max of 60,  58 lately.   As marc once pionted out,  the dough is going to give off water as it ripens,  so it will act like a more hydrated dough than when it is first made.  You better keep that starter alive!  its reallly tough to kill it,  just follow the rules,  feed it and puto it in the fridge when not in use. Anyways nice job,  what are you baking in?  -marc

[thezaman]

marc, i have a forno bravo primavera 70 that i bought at the beginning of the summer . it is a nice little oven that heats quickly and since it is only 28 inches doesn't use a lot of wood.

[Bill/SFNM]

That starter is strong,  really strong,  so maybe you need to cut your percentage in half next time.  Many  timesfor me 5% is too much,  especially in the summer. 

This is one of the dilemmas of starter cultures. When you use a measured quantity of commercial yeast, you will have a predictable level of activity. This makes it much easier to get reproducible results. With starter cultures, you are dealing after each activation with variable population densities and variable chemical balance of the culture that encourages or inhibits metabolism. Regular feeding schedule and use helps, but there are still many variables that lead me to make adjustments to the starter amount for each batch based on how conditions seem to me at the time. With any pizza, and especially with those made with starters and baked in a WFM, every batch of dough is different, every log is different, and every pie will be different. Part of the fun. 

[pizzaboyfan]

They look great.
Looks like the yeast really brought out those leopard spots.
perry

[thezaman]

yes, that starter was powerful , it also made a delicious pizza . leftovers were much better than my yeast based caputo. i brought them to work to share ,but i got greedy and gave one of the three away. the first pizza cooked at a floor of 850 deg. the second higher at 925 deg. so heat effected them in some way.