Author Topic: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics  (Read 2958 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pftaylor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1113
  • Location: Tampa, FL
  • Life's Short. Get Wood Fired Up!
Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« on: February 26, 2005, 07:15:04 PM »
Guys, I give up. I thought I had progressed to the point where I could reasonably manage the elusive Caputo. I failed miserably. It tasted funny. Almost fishy actually. The crust was crackerish, ultra-thin, and bitter tasting. Unless there is a way to eliminate the funny aftertaste, I'm going back to KASL.
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com


Offline pftaylor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1113
  • Location: Tampa, FL
  • Life's Short. Get Wood Fired Up!
Re: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2005, 07:16:33 PM »
More Disappointment
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 07:25:15 AM by pftaylor »
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21206
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2005, 08:19:18 PM »
pft,

Just looking at your photos, there is definitely something wrong going on. With your high temperature grill, you should be able to make a great Neapolitan style pizza. Naples 45 and Una Pizza Napoletana in NYC and new member Pizza Napoletana use the Caputo 00 with very good results, so there must be an answer to your problems in using it. Would you mind posting your recipe and the specific techniques you used?

Peter

Offline pftaylor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1113
  • Location: Tampa, FL
  • Life's Short. Get Wood Fired Up!
Re: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2005, 08:49:14 PM »
Ingredients:
22.5 oz Caputo 00 Blue Label
1 3/4 cup water (less 1 T)
1 t OO
1 T Sicilian Sea Salt
1/2 t IDY
1 T Vanilla malt
1/4 cup biga

I began by stirring the salt into the water until dissolved. I then added the flour and malt and used a stand mixer on stir for 1 minute. I then added the biga and yeast and mixed for 4 minutes on stir.  After cleaning the dough hook I added OO and mixed on 2 for 5 minutes. After cleaning hook again, on stir for five more minutes. The dough was wet and sticky at this point.

After lightly dusting the bench I used a dough scrapper to turn the dough. Since it was so wet I added 3 successive tablespoons of flour to reduce the wetness. I hand kneaded for maybe 5 more minutes. I then proportioned the balls to 14.1 oz each, lightly oiled them in stainless steel bowls covered by saran wrap. I placed two containers in the fridge and left one on the counter.

Five hours later, I punched down the dough (it had risen to just about double its original size) on a lightly dusted bench and let rise for 2 more hours. I then formed the skin, placed on the peel (dusted with flour) and baked for close to four minutes. I opened the hood at the 3 minute mark to peek on the crust and decided to let it cook for another minute.

From the pictures you can see huge holes in the top of the pizza. I've never seen that before. So whatever I'm doing wrong is getting worse. Help me pizza detective...
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com

Offline D.C. Pizza Master

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 67
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2005, 09:37:25 PM »
Ingredients:
22.5 oz Caputo 00 Blue Label
1 3/4 cup water (less 1 T)
1 t OO
1 T Sicilian Sea Salt
1/2 t IDY
1 T Vanilla malt
1/4 cup biga

I began by stirring the salt into the water until dissolved. I then added the flour and malt and used a stand mixer on stir for 1 minute. I then added the biga and yeast and mixed for 4 minutes on stir.  After cleaning the dough hook I added OO and mixed on 2 for 5 minutes. After cleaning hook again, on stir for five more minutes. The dough was wet and sticky at this point.

After lightly dusting the bench I used a dough scrapper to turn the dough. Since it was so wet I added 3 successive tablespoons of flour to reduce the wetness. I hand kneaded for maybe 5 more minutes. I then proportioned the balls to 14.1 oz each, lightly oiled them in stainless steel bowls covered by saran wrap. I placed two containers in the fridge and left one on the counter.

Five hours later, I punched down the dough (it had risen to just about double its original size) on a lightly dusted bench and let rise for 2 more hours. I then formed the skin, placed on the peel (dusted with flour) and baked for close to four minutes. I opened the hood at the 3 minute mark to peek on the crust and decided to let it cook for another minute.

From the pictures you can see huge holes in the top of the pizza. I've never seen that before. So whatever I'm doing wrong is getting worse. Help me pizza detective...

hey dude..ill help you out

ill send you info in a private message on how to make the perfect pizza..home method..alright?

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21206
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2005, 10:07:01 PM »
pft,

One of the things that may be causing you a problem is the amount of salt. I have some Sicilian sea salt and weighed 1 T. on my scale and it was 0.75 oz. My Sicilian salt has some dried basil in it, but I am guessing that the weight would be about the same if there were no basil. The Carnation malted milk also has some salt in. One tablespoon of that on my scale weighs around 0.30 oz. So, it's quite possible that the total salt content is over 0.80 oz. That amount would represent about 3.6% by weight of flour. That is in the danger zone.

Salt acts as a regulator of the fermentation process, and when it gets above 2% by weight of flour it will hinder the activity of the yeast by pulling water from the yeast by osmosis and slowing down fermentation, and will make the dough too hard and result in a poor quality crust. Too much salt can also inhibit the decomposition of the starch through amylase enzymatic activity (the process by which the alpha- and beta-amylase enzymes convert starch to sugar to feed the yeast). With the relatively small amount of yeast used in your recipe in relation to the amount of flour, I suspect that the damage to the yeast performance, including that of the biga, can be substantial. I would reduce the total salt content to around 1.5-2.0% of the weight of flour and see if that helps overcome the problem you have been experiencing. You appear to still have two dough balls in the refrigerator, so if you experience the same problems with those dough balls, then the salt looks more suspicious.

Another thing you may want to take a close look at is the Carnation malted milk. One of its ingredients is bicarbonate of soda. That's baking soda, the kind that Arm & Hammer sells in the familiar orange box. It is a leavening agent, but it is a soda and may be in part responsible for the cracker-like character of the crust. In fact, it is sometimes used in making crackers. In addition, it may be in part responsible for the off flavor that you have detected. It's quite possible that that flavor goes undetected in a high-gluten flour, which is a much "stronger" flour than a 00 flour with more of the wheat products in it.  So, as a second change, I would eliminate the Carnation malted milk in your next experiment using your recipe. If you would like to add some sugar, that may be OK but keep in mind that the classic 00 Neapolitan style recipes don't call for any sugar at all.

I think your processing technique may be OK but I would be inclined to add the IDY to the flour to begin with and not delay its introduction. The Caputo 00 flour has around 11.5-12.5% protein and, hence, may not need as much kneading as a lower-protein, lower-gluten 00 flour like the Bel Aria, which apparently requires a longer knead to more fully develop what little gluten it has. If you follow Pamela Sheldon Johns classic Neapolitan dough recipe (on page 39) but substitute the Caputo 00 flour for the pastry flour and the all-purpose flour, you will be called upon to do a total of 30 minutes kneading, along with a 4 hour rise time followed by another 2-4 hours rise time. I have long been suspicious of that recipe when used for other than a low-gluten 00 flour, like the Bel Aria. But the only way to test it with the higher gluten Caputo 00 is to give the recipe a try.

As for the hydration percentage, for me the jury is still out. You actually reduced the hydration percentage when you found it necessary to add more flour when you removed the dough from the bowl and kneaded it by hand.  However, I am not yet convinced that a hydration percentage over 60 percent is required. None of the Caputo 00 dough recipes I have seen, including a couple from Caputo itself, call for more than about 53%.

Peter

Offline pftaylor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1113
  • Location: Tampa, FL
  • Life's Short. Get Wood Fired Up!
Re: Caputo 00 Margherita Pics
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2005, 07:33:30 AM »
Pete-zza,
Thanks for your insight. I am my own worst enemy apparently when it comes to this 00 Blue label. I will go back to the most basic of recipes when using Caputo again. It is just not tolerant of experimentation very well. One day I hope that I may be able to be proficient in the ways of Caputo but that day is not today.

DC PM,
I look forward to your recipe. Perhaps it will put me on the road to recovery. Also, you are correct about the restaurant I inquired about. It was AV's. I can remember back in the 80's when that section of DC was bad. I'm talking about DC led the country in murders and that area was nearly ground zero. That was when Mayor Barry was running the show and he was on crack. The only reason why I would even consider going down there was because there was a police station directly across the street. How's that for dedication to pie - risking one's life for a great slice...
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 08:11:17 AM by pftaylor »
Pizza Raquel is Simply Everything You’d Want.
www.wood-firedpizza.com