Author Topic: Perfect pizza sauce  (Read 10655 times)

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Offline aptfive

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2009, 07:29:15 PM »
hahahaha ...your spot on my pizza friend.


Offline BTB

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2010, 09:03:59 AM »
Contrary to the impression given, Steve, this old salt has indeed tried Hunts, Contadina, Del Monte and similar tomato products for . . .  decades.  They are "average" to "lousy" at best in my personal estimation.  Again just a personal opinion.  And I've found so many people, which is unusual, to agree that that is generally the case and that the other great tomato products mentioned on this site are really super great for all kinds of tomato based sauces.  Let's just agree to disagree.  I don't think any pizza sauce made with Hunt's tomato products -- or the like -- should be used in the same breath as the term "perfect pizza sauce."  Again, my strong personal opinion only.  You think otherwise.  Your spices are fine, as I said before.  Again, I am just talking about the "base" tomato product used in connection with the term "perfect."  And again, yes I have tried the base product . . . . . . many, many times, as most have on this site.

I entitled the thread "perfect pizza sauce" to get people to view it.
What? Just to view it and not expect responses with a contrary view?

Quote
. . . they must be "thin skinned
WHO is thin skinned?

Quote
Measurements provide accuracy and consistency.
No one can possibly disagree.  But I'll never follow that "for better or for worse."

Quote
. . . somebody is going to deliver haughty criticism
I didn't see haughty criticism here.  But if I came across that way, I am sorry.

I didn't intend to be condescending or insulting and I apologize if it was taken that way, Steve.  Sometimes words or expressions in a blog response or email looks far different from what the author intended.  I was hoping the words "please don't take this wrong" would connote that, but I see I was not successful.  If we were talking across the table, I'm sure we would be fairly civil and friendly, even if disagreeing.  Please continue to participate and make the best pizza product you can.  Just be aware that if you should mention sauces with "those" tomato based products (not the spices you mentioned), you are very likely to find many people that just may hit the "back button" and disregard the report.    --BTB
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 11:23:57 AM by BTB »

Offline csacks

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2010, 11:48:17 AM »
I tried this sauce with Dei Fratelli crushed tomatoes.  The sauce was very good and I plan to use it back and forth with my other current favorite.  I think Hunts would give it more of a salty taste than Dei Fratelli.  That probably would be a good thing.  Nice mild flavor to this sauce.

I can buy Dei Fratelli locally.  It is the best local brand that I can buy without going to the expense of buying mail order Escallon, and Marzanos.  I use Dei Fratelli petite diced for my salsas and it works really nice.  It's not what I would call fresh tomatoes out of a can, but few canned tomatoes are. 

Really glad I tried this sauce.

Offline Steve973

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2010, 01:11:22 PM »
BTB, I am curious if you can give some qualitative reasons why you believe these store bought canned tomato sauces are inferior to some of the other brands.  Do you dislike the fact that some spices are already added?  Do these sauces take on some off-flavor that you don't prefer?  I don't have any vested interest in the supermarket brands, but there is a certain kind of authenticity that I am trying to reproduce, and I have been unsuccessful in that regard with canned whole tomatoes (san marzano, etc).  The flavored base really seems to boost the resultant sauce.  However, I'm open minded, and I love to experiment, so please feel free to make some recommendations.  It might be worthwhile to throw this together to get an idea of what I'm going for, if you're interested.  It would be great to make something very close to this by using fresh ingredients from scratch, but the lower temperature, low pressure boiling that these companies can do seems to achieve something in their sauces that is hard to reproduce.
"Right here, right now, from the very beginning, there is only one thing. Constantly clear and unexplained, having never been born and having never died, it cannot be named or described." - Zen Master So Sahn

Offline Bob1

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2010, 01:38:12 PM »
Steve,
I tried your sauce and it is very good.  You may want to check out Red Novembers Microwave extraction method with your ingredients, In case you want to develop it faster.  One thing I did not see posted among all the other info is the fact that not only personal taste makes a difference, but other major factors.  It also depends on the type of cheese used and the cook temp/time for those ingredients to blend, and of course the thickness of the crumb.  It amazes me on how a little variation in one variable can change the taste.  
My grandmother was from Chieti so we have an original family sauce recipe for pasta that is only spiced with a tiny bit of garlic.  I have been making it for over 30 years.  The other ingredients are olive oil, browned meat, and Pecorino cooked for three hours.  I have it every week and have used many tomato products including 300lbs of my own tomatos every year.  I found because of the purity the recipe the fresher the tomato product the better.  I have been using 6 in 1 for quite awhile now and because of it I prefer pasta night over steak night (Fillet Mignon) any day. That being said I feel that the more spice added the less important the quality of the product, but it still is a factor.   The biggest issue I see with using the "Shelf" brands is controlling the salt content more than anything.  
In regards to all the heated discussion I would rather try to add my input for you to try a variation of your sauce recipe using one of the products that the others are talking about.  Let's consider it a "Compromise for the purpose of constructive action for both sides" I would suggest to put two Tbs of EVOO in a pot and add all your spice except the salt and sugar.   Heat it up to a simmer only until you can start to smell the herbs.  Is important not to fry them.  I would then add a product like 6 in 1 and an extra 1/4 tsp of salt, with remaining salt and sugar.  I usually heat the tomatoes up until they it get hot.  I then refrigerate and use the next day.  The sauce can be used right away but it does improve over night.  
If you decide to experiment using fresh tomato puree.  I think that you will find that the fat will bring things together for the better, and come closer to the sauce you are using now.  

Thanks,

Bob1

Offline Trogdor33

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2010, 07:55:23 PM »
qualitative reasons why you believe these store bought canned tomato sauces are inferior to some of the other brands.

Store bought canned tomato sauces (not diced/crushed/whole) are usually reconstituted tomato paste loaded with salt and preserved with citric acid. They are often stored in an unlined can. Store bought tomatoes are often bitter, salty and in some cases even metallic tasting. When you use the diced/crushed/whole products, they are usually a little bit better than the sauce or paste, but still have some of the same problems.

The dilemma arises with tomatoes as with virtually every other commercially grown crop: quality of product vs production cost. These two properties are inversely related. If you have ever tasted tomatoes that were picked green outside and ripened inside vs vined ripened, there is a noticible difference since the latter had more sugar pumped into it from the plant. In mfg plants that produce a high quality product, the green tomatoes don't make it through quality control. This results in a percentage of waste, let's pick 20% as a figurative number. With a lower quality mfg plant, maybe only 5% of tomatoes don't make it through quality control and it's just the ones that are rotten. All those premature tomatoes being included in the final product make for a less desirable taste than the ones from the higher quality operation. This results in the inferior product being priced lower, but not performing as well. I have actually found green tomatoes in cans of hunts whole tomatoes before. In paste or sauce, you wouldn't even know that green tomatoes got thrown in the mix, but the taste still suffers.
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Offline BTB

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2010, 09:59:27 AM »
There are days when someone's bewildering remarks surpass one's ability to comment.

Offline Trogdor33

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2010, 12:50:37 PM »
There are days when someone's bewildering remarks surpass one's ability to comment.

Am I that far off that you can't even begin to point out why I am wrong?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 12:52:13 PM by Trogdor33 »
For all you non-geeks who may be wondering what the name trogdor is all about, have a look here: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail58.html

Offline Steve973

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2010, 09:33:02 PM »
Bob, thanks for your advice and I tried your recommendation.  Your advice has produced, to this date, the best pizza sauce that I have produced from a can of Italian tomatoes.  The resultant sauce was quite a bit milder than what I normally produce, but it was in the ballpark, and it worked fine on a pizza.  I imagine that I could adjust the various spice levels and come up with something closer to what I prefer, but I wonder if the effort will really pay off.  If I have to do a lot of work to come around full circle to what I already have (plus slightly better tomato flavor) will the reward be adequate for the effort?

Trogdor, I appreciate your response.  What you say makes perfect sense to me.  The products with better quality control seem like they would make a fantastic marinara or arrabbiata sauce.  Most of the time, the pizza sauce that I produce with these products resemble pasta sauce more than pizza sauce to my palate.

There are days when someone's bewildering remarks surpass one's ability to comment.
BTB, maybe you have the best of intentions, but it seems that you like to post disagreement without offering much in the way of constructive advice.  This doesn't really help you or anyone else, so why do you waste your time?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 11:48:57 PM by Steve973 »
"Right here, right now, from the very beginning, there is only one thing. Constantly clear and unexplained, having never been born and having never died, it cannot be named or described." - Zen Master So Sahn

Offline Bob1

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 10:00:04 PM »
Steve,
Glad you tried it, and liked it.  I agree that it is more work and if you are using a thin layer then melting it into the cheese it probably is not worth the extra work.  I have been making tomato pies and I and I have actually used a whole 28 oz can of 6 in 1 on one 16x16 pie.  It was great and the quality of tomato made it great.  If you use a recipe like that and bake at 400 for about 18 minutes you get a nice tasty sauce that is thick, but does not fall off the pie.  The water just steams off. 

Thanks
Bob1


Offline RichC

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2010, 11:01:04 AM »
Hey all,

I have tried lots and lots of different recipes; some required cooking, and others didn't.  By far, the best one I've tried doesn't require cooking, and it really couldn't be simpler.  I know that people look for so many different things in pizza sauce, but if you try this one, I think you will be very pleased.  It goes like this:

28 oz can of sauce.  Hunts/Contadina/Giant supermarket brand are all fine, and probably other brands are, too.
1/2 tsp dried basil
1/4 tsp dried oregano
1/4 tsp salt
1/4 tsp ground black pepper
1/4 tsp onion powder
1/4 tsp garlic powder
1/4 tsp sugar

Mix everything together, and place in a sealed container in the refrigerator overnight.

If anybody tries this, please post some feedback.

Just made a sauce with your (above) ingredients, and using November's extraction method
for the spices prior to mixing the spices into the tomato's.  Also using Escalon 6in1 tomato's,
which I think are the finest tomato product I have ever tasted.  I must have grabbed a different
can when I was shopping, as this can was ground instead of crushed.  The ground still have that
bright fresh taste and could be used "as is" to make a great pizza sauce.  I will post my feedback on
your spce formula later this coming weekend.  Thanks!

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2010, 12:21:48 PM »
I never made pizza that was worth the effort until I discovered Stanislaus, but in an emergency, I can make acceptable sauce from Hunt's tomato paste. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's edible.

Never thought much of Bonta. Works fine when assisted by lots of toppings, but for cheese pizza, I have never been able to get a good result.

scott123

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2010, 08:28:24 PM »
I never made pizza that was worth the effort until I discovered Stanislaus, but in an emergency, I can make acceptable sauce from Hunt's tomato paste. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's edible.

I do a paste based sauce that I'd have no problems recommending.  I wouldn't classify it as NY style- somewhere between NY style and California Pizza Kitchen. It's a sweet, cooked tomato, caramelized onion, spaghetti-ish sauce as compared to my less sweet, uncooked tomato, basil/garlic traditional sauce. Personally, I find that basil and fennel clash a bit, so if I'm in the mood for sausage, I'll usually go with my cooked sauce.

Offline pizzainmymouth

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2010, 07:00:28 PM »
From my experience Escalon's 6 in 1 makes the best starting base sauce for almost any variety.  Modify as you please but this is where to start from...  BUT ... EVEN BETTER is Escalon's organic brand called Christinas.  They make an organic version of the 6 in 1 that is AMAZING !  Side by side out of can taste testing this organic version had a fantastic fresh tomato taste that almost put regular 6 in 1 to shame.  I sampled over 40 canned products at the international pizza expo and this was by far the standout to my taste buds.  Problem is I dont know if anyone sells it retail in the small size cans so you may have to buy from a restaurant supplier or from Escalon directly in the large size cans.  Check it out if you can! :pizza:

Offline Davydd

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2010, 08:06:07 PM »
I too have tried many different recipes including store brand sauces, and having to go with what I could find where I normally shop have settled on Glen Muir. I don't know if it is the best I can buy but I definitely decided it is better than store brands and some of the other standard national brands. Also, looking at your recipe and what I have graduated to it appears my taste buds need more of a boost in spices. Basil, oregano, onion and garlic are usually found in most pizza sauce recipes. Sugar and salt are found in all processed cans of tomato sauce in enough quantity that more is not needed. I've added olive oil, parsely and rosemary. With this recipe I usually don't need to add anything more to my pizza but the cheese, toppings and sometimes fresh basil since I am a basil freak. If I am in the mood and have time I will also substitute fresh chopped onion and garlic in lieu of minced. This will suffice for two to three pizzas and I usually don't want to make up any more than I plan to use.

My homemade pizza sauce:
 
1 small can of Muir Glen tomato paste for thickening
1 15 oz.  can of Muir Glen Organic tomato sauce
1 tsp minced garlic
1 tsp minced onion
2 teaspoons dried oregano
1 tsp dried basil
1 tsp.dried parsely ,
1/4 tsp dried Rosemary
1 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil
No salt or sugar. Read the tomato sauce label. Usually way more than enough.

Hey all,

I have tried lots and lots of different recipes; some required cooking, and others didn't.  By far, the best one I've tried doesn't require cooking, and it really couldn't be simpler.  I know that people look for so many different things in pizza sauce, but if you try this one, I think you will be very pleased.  It goes like this:

28 oz can of sauce.  Hunts/Contadina/Giant supermarket brand are all fine, and probably other brands are, too.
1/2 tsp dried basil
1/4 tsp dried oregano
1/4 tsp salt
1/4 tsp ground black pepper
1/4 tsp onion powder
1/4 tsp garlic powder
1/4 tsp sugar

Mix everything together, and place in a sealed container in the refrigerator overnight.

If anybody tries this, please post some feedback.
Davydd

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2010, 01:50:05 PM »
My experience with Escalon is that their stuff won't stand up on its own. Fine with toppings (toppings hide sauce problems), but on a cheese pizza, it seems flavorless to me.

Offline Steve973

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2010, 10:41:19 PM »
Even though I agree, prepare for petulant whining about the credibility of your tastes, after voicing that "flavor" of opinion.  I think that those types of products make an incredible base for a pasta sauce, but they aren't the right fit on a pizza for me.  I get much more satisfaction when I spice up a can of some type of sauce.  If it tastes good to me when I open the can, I know that throwing my spice mix into it will result in goodness.  It's pizza, folks, not fettuccine pomodoro.
"Right here, right now, from the very beginning, there is only one thing. Constantly clear and unexplained, having never been born and having never died, it cannot be named or described." - Zen Master So Sahn

Offline 424hamst

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 12:42:16 PM »
I understand to each there own, but we tried this sauce over the weekend and our family loved it.  I am sure it may not be for everyone, but thanks for posting, our family really enjoyed it.  This will now be the one we use.

Offline RichC

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2010, 03:25:04 PM »
OK Steve, back to report on your recipe for the Perfect Pizza Sauce.

I thought it was excellent.  I used it with Escalon 6in1's for the base, gave it 2-3 days
for the flavor to develop, and used it on 4 pies.  The family thought the spices were a bit
"heavy-handed".  I on the other hand thought the flavor was great.  Not sure it would be my
Perfect Pizza Sauce, but with the addition of November's extraction method for spices, this
couldn't be easier to make.  And the overall flavor is excellent.  Thanks!

Puzzolento - Have you found any tomato product that stands alone (without the addition of spices) well
on a plain cheese pizza?  Most people use the tomato product as the base, then add additional product to
create a flavor profile that they really love.  I would be shocked to find a pure tomato product straight from the can that tastes great on a cheese pizza.  IMO, straight from the can, Escalon 6in1's are as good as they come.  Please let me know what else I should try.  Thanks!

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: Perfect pizza sauce
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 04:28:02 PM »
When I talk about Escalon standing alone, I mean without toppings, not without additional seasoning.

Nonetheless, I used to eat at a Manhattan pizzeria that (judging by the taste) used plain old Super Dolce mixed with water, and their pizza was good.


 

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