Author Topic: better homes and garden grandma pizza  (Read 6374 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2009, 05:42:21 PM »




Matt's water quantity may be on the high side although it is close to the technical value of 8.345 ounces/cup. Can you measure a cup of water in your usual manner and weigh that amount of water? My cup of water is usually closer to 8.1-8.2 ounces/cup. I assume that you did not use more than a cup of water but rather adjusted the amount of flour to get the dough to the tacky stage.

Peter

I used a common weight amount from a website.  I just weighed a cup of tap water & I get 9.6oz.  I'm not sure if it makes a difference in weight but I use filtered water when I make my dough.

Interesting ???

Matt


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2009, 06:03:09 PM »
Matt,

When I measure a cup of water, I use the one-cup marking even though I can get more water in the cup. I also view the one-cup marking at eye level, usually with the cup on a flat surface. My measuring cup is a glass Pyrex cup.

Peter

Offline Matthew

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2009, 06:06:28 PM »
Matt,

When I measure a cup of water, I use the one-cup marking even though I can get more water in the cup. I also view the one-cup marking at eye level, usually with the cup on a flat surface.

Peter

I used a Pyrex 4 cup measuring cup. Maybe it's less accurate than a smaller one.

Matt

Offline Matthew

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2009, 06:09:46 PM »
Okay, just spoke with her & her formula is as follows:

600g flour
300g water
20g vegetable oil
3 tbs sugar
12 g (change in accordance to your taste)
yeast (varies-use what you normally use)

Matt

I made up a couple of batches yesterday that I Will be using tomorrow for my son's birthday. Definitely alot more dry that I'm used to. 

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2009, 07:51:53 PM »
peter, i scooped about 590 grams of flour .i did not use all of it , the flour is a non bleached a/p flour made by adm for my distributor . looking at Matthew's  math if you add all  of the wet ingredients the hydration is 69 % egg probably has a lower hydration effect because of its thickness . so it may be in the 62 % range. i will mix tonight and use grams for everything . i noticed the low salt amount , that may be a chicago trait . this family was from chicago and we know that their deep dish has little or no salt.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2009, 08:06:58 PM »
Larry,

One large egg, which I assume you used, is 75.8% water. Based on nutritiondata.com data, one large egg weighs 50 grams. So, of that, 37.9 grams is water.

FYI, based on the 27 ounces of dough that you used for your last BHG pizza and the 16" x 12" pan, the thickness factor comes to 27/(16 x 12) = 0.140625. That is a very easy number for me to remember because it is the weight, in ounces, of one teaspoon of ordinary table sugar.

Peter

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2009, 10:53:38 PM »
peter, i made a batch of dough tonight. h2o 282 grams
                                                      egg  58 grams
                                                    evoo   30 grams
                                                     salt      1 gram
                                                    yeast     3 grams
  king Arthur a/p  unbleached             flour   583 grams
 the dough seemed a little stiffer but after it started to rise it became very soft but not sticky .i wrapped it in saran and put it in the refrigerator . i will make a pizza saturday at work.

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2009, 08:56:53 AM »
made two pizzas with the dough made friday night. my ingredients were sicilian oregano on the branch. 6 in 1 tomatoes, romano cheese, evoo, sea salt and grande 50/50 blend.i made a 9x9 plain cheese 9 ounces of dough ,and a sausage ,which was 24 ounces in a half sheet pan. i oiled the pans with evoo spread and flipped  the dough which had the oil covering both sides. 20 minute rise. placed the oregano on the dough .the small got romano and shredded cheese ,since it was shredded and i wanted the tomatoes on top i pre baked it at this point for 4 minutes. i finished it with spoons of 6 in 1 romano salt and evo. the half sheet got tomatoes ,romano ,shredded cheese, salt,sausage and evoo. both baked at 525 degrees till done top, bottom, and center. they came out very nice enclosed are pics

Offline Matthew

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2009, 09:54:34 AM »
made two pizzas with the dough made friday night. my ingredients were sicilian oregano on the branch. 6 in 1 tomatoes, romano cheese, evoo, sea salt and grande 50/50 blend.i made a 9x9 plain cheese 9 ounces of dough ,and a sausage ,which was 24 ounces in a half sheet pan. i oiled the pans with evoo spread and flipped  the dough which had the oil covering both sides. 20 minute rise. placed the oregano on the dough .the small got romano and shredded cheese ,since it was shredded and i wanted the tomatoes on top i pre baked it at this point for 4 minutes. i finished it with spoons of 6 in 1 romano salt and evo. the half sheet got tomatoes ,romano ,shredded cheese, salt,sausage and evoo. both baked at 525 degrees till done top, bottom, and center. they came out very nice enclosed are pics

Larry,
Very nice job.  Did you roll the dough out before placing it in the pan or did you just press it in the pan? Also, did you do this with the dough right out of the fridge or did you let it come to temperature?

Matt

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2009, 10:08:43 AM »
thanks matthew , i bet if the grandmother that brought this recipe from the old country met yours they would have a lot to say about the merits of their way of doing it. this dough had a chicago influence to it . the dough was pressed by hand into the pans flipping it  as needed to get it to spread, there is little resistance. the dough came out of my refrigerator at home and was spread as soon as i got to work 15 minutes or so. you had mentioned you were going to make your grandmother recipe Saturday ,did you get to it?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2009, 12:42:51 PM »
Larry,

I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to convert the Grandma pizza dough recipe you posted in Reply 26 to baker's percent format. It is as follows for the overall recipe:

King Arthur All-Purpose Flour (100%):
Water (48.3705%):
IDY (0.5146%):
Salt (0.17157%):
Olive Oil (5.146%):
Eggs, large (9.94854%):
Total (164.15121%):
583 g  |  20.56 oz | 1.29 lbs
282 g  |  9.95 oz | 0.62 lbs
3 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
1 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.18 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
30 g | 1.06 oz | 0.07 lbs | 6.67 tsp | 2.22 tbsp
58 g | 2.05 oz | 0.13 lbs | 11.46 tsp | 3.82 tbsp
957 g | 33.76 oz | 2.11 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation, so the actual dough weight is likely to be less than the calculated value

You will note that the nominal hydration is around 48.37%. However, if you account for the water content of the egg, the hydration goes up to about 55.91%. The 5.14% olive oil will also make the dough seem and feel more viscous. In fact, if you add the 5.14% to the 55.91%, you get 61.05%, which is just a bit higher than the rated absorption value (about 60%) for the King Arthur all-purpose flour.

By any chance, were you able to detect the flavor of egg in the finished dough, and did it seem to contribute to the final crust coloration? At almost 10% egg, I would think that you would be able to tell that the egg is there.

Peter

EDIT: Clarified calculated versus actual dough weight and deleted examples used for 9" x 9" and 16" x 12" pan sizes.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 04:03:46 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2009, 02:46:04 PM »
peter, the formula was dip and sweep i then weighed it used the cup of water and adjusted the water to get the dough to a soft consistency. if you go to the first page the formula that used is done in grams.i bought king Arthur a/p so we had a benchmark flour. this pizza was very good and have had a lot of compliments. i used really good raw ingredients ,and that helps a lot.

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2009, 02:55:02 PM »
peter sorry i didn't read your post in full . i had 930 grams of dough to make the two pizzas the dough per area for the half sheet was a little less but not noticeable . enclosed are side view for thickness

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2009, 03:23:46 PM »
Larry,

Are you saying that your calculated dough weight was 957 grams (33.76 ounces) but the actual dough weight you used, possibly because of minor dough losses, was 930 grams? If so, that would mean that you didn't use 9 ounces and 24 ounces for the two pizzas because the total would be 33 ounces, or 935.55 grams.

Peter

Offline thezaman

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2009, 03:41:33 PM »
peter, i used a gram scale at home. at work i have a spring scale. i measured 9 ounces and threw the rest on the scale i thought it weighed out at 24 ounces it may have been a little less. my half sheet pans are very old an the surface area is probably smaller because the sides are bent in and they stack inside each other so the inner diameter is under the advertised measured size.i did start with 930 grams,and the formula will yield this pizza if it is followed.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2009, 04:00:06 PM »
Larry,

I don't want to mislead or confuse anyone with what I posted in Reply 30, so I have modified the post to state that the finished dough weight is likely to be less than the calculated dough weight (based on the data you provided) and also to delete the parts about the 9 ounce and 24 ounce dough balls. That way, in using the expanded dough calculating tool, members can simply choose whatever thickness factor and pan size they would like and use the baker's percents I posted along with any bowl residue compensation they find useful. FWIW, the difference between 957 grams and 930 grams is 2.82%. It seems to me that a workable thickness factor for the dough recipe you posted might be around 0.11-0.12. From what I have read, Grandma pizzas tend to have thinner crusts that Sicilian pan pizzas.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 04:12:26 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Matthew

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Re: better homes and garden grandma pizza
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2009, 04:56:25 PM »
thanks matthew , i bet if the grandmother that brought this recipe from the old country met yours they would have a lot to say about the merits of their way of doing it. this dough had a chicago influence to it . the dough was pressed by hand into the pans flipping it  as needed to get it to spread, there is little resistance. the dough came out of my refrigerator at home and was spread as soon as i got to work 15 minutes or so. you had mentioned you were going to make your grandmother recipe Saturday ,did you get to it?

Hi Larry,
Yes I did, unfortunately I didn't take any pics because we had a house full of people.  Everyone loved the potato, onion & sausage.  Next time I'm going to do your version with sourdough starter.

Matt


 

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