Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 138579 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1040 on: December 08, 2011, 09:28:43 PM »
Norma,

I thinks the King Arthur Special should work. It is likely to yield a slightly less chewy, more tender crust with a bit less crust coloration and taste (because of the lower protein content). You might have to adjust the hydration a bit (lower it) since the KA Special has a lower rated absorption than the KASL.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting that you think King Arthur Special might work for the preferment Lehmann dough.  I will purchase a bag to see how it performs.  I can understand I might need to adjust the hydration down a bit because of the lowered rated absorption.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1041 on: December 12, 2011, 06:41:00 PM »
Scott123 or anyone else that is interested,

I did use ADM Gigantic high-gluten flour for two batches of dough that were 15 lb. each again this week to see if less mixing time in the mixer will make the dough balls easier to open on Scottís advise at Reply 1036  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg162701.html#msg162701 The one batch I mixed 5 minutes after the olive oil was added and the other batch was only mixed for 3 minutes after the olive oil was added.  As can be seen a Hobart mixer does mix the dough well even in a short amount of time.  Both batches were mixed on speed 1.

The first two pictures are after the first dough was mixed for 5 minutes and some of dough balls after they were balled.  The second two pictures are of the dough that was mixed for 3 minutes and some of the dough balls from that batch.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1042 on: December 12, 2011, 06:41:41 PM »
Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1043 on: December 12, 2011, 06:44:10 PM »
I made a preferment Lehmann dough ball at home to try at market with KABF to see if there is any difference in the texture of the crust or to see how the pizza browns using KABF.  I added the normal amount of water and the dough ball didnít feel sticky. 

As can be seen, the preferment in a smaller amount doesnít bubble like the larger amounts at market do.  This was the preferment before I mixed it into the final dough and a picture of the dough ball with KABF.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1044 on: December 12, 2011, 06:46:15 PM »
I received a nice Christmas gift from the Cortopassi family today.  They are the family that make the Stanislaus tomato products I used on my market pizzas.  I really like the saying on the plaque.  The big card they sent was beautiful too and was nice to read.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1045 on: December 12, 2011, 09:16:25 PM »
Scott123 or anyone else that is interested,

I did use ADM Gigantic high-gluten flour for two batches of dough that were 15 lb. each again this week to see if less mixing time in the mixer will make the dough balls easier to open on Scottís advise at Reply 1036  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg162701.html#msg162701 The one batch I mixed 5 minutes after the olive oil was added and the other batch was only mixed for 3 minutes after the olive oil was added.  As can be seen a Hobart mixer does mix the dough well even in a short amount of time.  Both batches were mixed on speed 1.

The first two pictures are after the first dough was mixed for 5 minutes and some of dough balls after they were balled.  The second two pictures are of the dough that was mixed for 3 minutes and some of the dough balls from that batch.

Norma

Norma, that Hobart mixer seems to make a very smooth dough in a very short time.  The Hobarts that I've seen usually trudge very slowly along and take more than double that time to achieve that level of smoothness. I knead my 14% cold fermented doughs to a rougher consistency than even your 3 minute mix.  This being said, I'm almost certain that at least one of these batches of dough balls will give you the ease of opening that you're looking for, along with the same favorable oven spring you're getting with the bromated flour.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1046 on: December 12, 2011, 09:39:30 PM »
Norma, that Hobart mixer seems to make a very smooth dough in a very short time.  The Hobarts that I've seen usually trudge very slowly along and take more than double that time to achieve that level of smoothness. I knead my 14% cold fermented doughs to a rougher consistency than even your 3 minute mix.  This being said, I'm almost certain that at least one of these batches of dough balls will give you the ease of opening that you're looking for, along with the same favorable oven spring you're getting with the bromated flour.

Scott,

My Hobart mixer does mix dough in a short amount of time and even though it was smooth, it wasnít as smooth as it normally is.  I could have stopped the mixer at two minutes after I added the olive oil and the dough still would have been smooth.  I did post a video somewhere in this thread of the Hobart mixer mixing the preferment Lehmann dough.  It made me wonder before, when scott r told me in the boardwalk thread when he looked at Mackís dough that he thought it was a long time mixed dough how he could tell that just by watching how the dough handled.  I sure couldnít tell that.  Mackís is using Kyrol and that is also a bromated flour.  I did try to mix that dough for a long while and it still would have had oven spring if I hadnít pressed on the dough so much.  There is so much about dough that I donít understand.  I will wait and see how the 2 different doughs behave tomorrow.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1047 on: December 14, 2011, 12:17:00 PM »

Well, here goes in the next experiment with the preferment Lehmann dough if Scott123 or anyone else is interested.

These are some of the pizzas made yesterday with the ADM flour and the final dough that was mixed from 3 to 5 minutes.  I really couldnít tell any difference in opening the dough balls that were mixed from 3 to 5 minutes, or the taste of the pies from that experiment.  All the dough balls did open very easily.  One other thing I wanted to note, was there seemed to be more bigger inter-crust bubbles on some of the pies, and some of the pies wanted to bubble in the middle of the pies, even though the dough balls were warm-up first. Why those things happened was a mystery to me.  All in all, this experiment went well, but I donít have any conclusions from these experiments.

There is always a wrench to put into the mix, like there usually is. On Monday when I went to take the preferments out of the deli case the top of the preferment looked really bubbly like it always does, but on the bottom of the preferment there was a lot of water.  I donít know if the bromated flour did cause this, or if something else was going on with the preferments.  I did put the preferments into the Hatco Unit for the same amount of time I have been using lately.  Those preferments made with KASL havenít been giving me any problems lately.  I have gone over different methods of letting the preferments proof and I also noted before in this thread that there were problems with the preferment wanting to water on the bottom sometimes.

I sure donít know how I am ever going to figure out if it was the preferment or the shorter mix time that made the dough balls open so easily yesterday.  As I have posted many times dough is always a mystery in many ways.

The one pizza Steve and I made we did bake longer to see how a better browned pizza would turn out.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1048 on: December 14, 2011, 12:18:04 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1049 on: December 14, 2011, 12:19:28 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1050 on: December 14, 2011, 12:20:35 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1051 on: December 14, 2011, 12:21:52 PM »
Pizza baked longer.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1052 on: December 14, 2011, 12:24:13 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1053 on: December 14, 2011, 12:26:26 PM »
This was the preferment Lehmann dough pizza made with KABF.  The crust did brown and there was oven spring.  When Steve and I tasted slices of this pizza the bottom of the crust had more crunch than when using KASL or bromated flours. It was interesting to try this experiment for the preferment Lehmann dough with KABF.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1054 on: December 14, 2011, 12:27:37 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1055 on: December 14, 2011, 12:28:55 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1056 on: December 14, 2011, 12:29:55 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1057 on: December 14, 2011, 12:31:53 PM »
Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1058 on: December 14, 2011, 01:24:43 PM »
Norma, that's good news on the easiness of the open and what appears to be continued good spring with the bromated flour, but that's a bit of a hassle on the big blisters.

I'm curious, for the KABF, did you use the exact same recipe as the Commander or did you compensate for the lower protein and use less water?

I'm not much of an expert on preferments, but I'm relatively certain that the ease of opening was attributable to the drop in kneading time.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1059 on: December 14, 2011, 03:31:41 PM »
Norma, that's good news on the easiness of the open and what appears to be continued good spring with the bromated flour, but that's a bit of a hassle on the big blisters.

I'm curious, for the KABF, did you use the exact same recipe as the Commander or did you compensate for the lower protein and use less water?

I'm not much of an expert on preferments, but I'm relatively certain that the ease of opening was attributable to the drop in kneading time.

Scott,

It was good news that there was ease in opening the dough balls, but donít know about the big blisters or the preferment being watery.  I am not sure what contributed to anything.  The dough skins from yesterday even felt more bubbly if that makes any sense (from morning until the evening).  I sure canít make any sense out of why the dough balls seemed to be more bubbly.

For the KABF I used the same formulation as for the KASL and ADM Gigantic High-Gluten flour.  I didnít use less water.  I havenít been able to purchase any Commander flour, because the last time I was at the Restaurant Store they didnít have any for some reason.  

Thanks for telling me you think the ease of opening the dough balls could be attributed to less mix time.  :) I have played around with this dough so much that I am not sure what causes many things.  Each variable could change something, at least in my opinion and from what I have tried so far. Anyone would think I should have this dough figured out by now, but I sure donít.  :-D

Norma
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 03:33:44 PM by norma427 »
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