Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 159213 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #850 on: June 15, 2011, 07:52:35 AM »
more pictures

Norma


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #851 on: June 15, 2011, 07:54:01 AM »
end of pictures

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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #852 on: June 17, 2011, 06:53:35 PM »
I bought new batteries for my pH meter this week.  Wow,  those batteries are expensive.  I let the preferment ferment for the same amount of time I did last week.  This week the pH of the preferment after fermenting in the Hatco Unit was 5.55.

Picture below

Norma

Offline fazzari

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #853 on: June 17, 2011, 11:16:46 PM »
If your pizzas taste as good as they look, your customers must be in heaven.  I especially like the way the bottoms look!!!  Beautiful!
John

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #854 on: June 18, 2011, 07:47:21 AM »
If your pizzas taste as good as they look, your customers must be in heaven.  I especially like the way the bottoms look!!!  Beautiful!
John

John,

Thanks so much for your kind words!  :) Peterís formula for the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas have served me well and customers do like the pizzas.  I had a hard time trying to get my deck temperatures to the right place to get the bottom browning.  I had played around with those temperatures for many months.  At first the deck temperatures were lower, but after reading on the forum how higher temperatures make better pies, in terms of oven spring, moistness in the crust, char, etc., I experimented with higher temperatures for awhile.  I think I have found that I like lower oven temperatures better overall, at least for making pizzas my deck oven.

Norma

Offline JConk007

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #855 on: June 18, 2011, 08:45:35 AM »
PH - Schme H, They all look so Good Norma!! and those diggity dogs as Ronzo says forgetaboutit!!
as mentioned  I dont know how anybody passes your stand!  :chef:
John
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 08:47:17 AM by JConk007 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #856 on: June 18, 2011, 11:49:22 AM »
PH - Schme H, They all look so Good Norma!! and those diggity dogs as Ronzo says forgetaboutit!!
as mentioned  I dont know how anybody passes your stand!  :chef:
John

John,

Thanks for the kinds words about the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas and diggity dogs.  :) I know what Ron always says.  He always makes me chuckle when he says those words.  :-D There are loads of foods stands at market, where customers can eat..  I am only one of them, and am in the back part of the market, where not to many people get to. By the time some non regular people get to my stand, they have already eaten. 

Norma

Offline fazzari

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #857 on: June 18, 2011, 12:48:13 PM »
John,

Thanks so much for your kind words!  :) Peterís formula for the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas have served me well and customers do like the pizzas.  I had a hard time trying to get my deck temperatures to the right place to get the bottom browning.  I had played around with those temperatures for many months.  At first the deck temperatures were lower, but after reading on the forum how higher temperatures make better pies, in terms of oven spring, moistness in the crust, char, etc., I experimented with higher temperatures for awhile.  I think I have found that I like lower oven temperatures better overall, at least for making pizzas my deck oven.

Norma

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn...but I know one important guy who would agree with you about baking longer in a cooler oven..and that would be the Dough Doctor himself!!
John

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #858 on: June 18, 2011, 01:03:20 PM »
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn...but I know one important guy who would agree with you about baking longer in a cooler oven..and that would be the Dough Doctor himself!!
John

John,

You arenít speaking out of turn.  I did use a lower oven temperature when I first started making pizzas.  I just thought a higher temperature oven would somehow improve my pizzas, but found they really didnít, at least in my deck oven.  I do like higher bake temperature using some other doughs in the BBQ grill set=i[ or in a WFO.  I also think Tom would agree about lower bake temperatures in a deck oven.

Norma


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #859 on: June 18, 2011, 04:51:37 PM »
Norma - Just noticed your pizza dough hot dogs.  Those look great!  I might try that with a brat...

There is a French bakery here in town (Le Trompeau), that some mornings lately has had a REAL good a hot dog with emmentaler cheese wrapped in brioche dough with a dab of mustard.  The are real tasty.  Not sure why he started to do the hot dog thing along with his more traditional french breakfast croissant style.  The bakery just moved to a location about 3 min away too!

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #860 on: June 18, 2011, 05:28:14 PM »
Norma - Just noticed your pizza dough hot dogs.  Those look great!  I might try that with a brat...

There is a French bakery here in town (Le Trompeau), that some mornings lately has had a REAL good a hot dog with emmentaler cheese wrapped in brioche dough with a dab of mustard.  The are real tasty.  Not sure why he started to do the hot dog thing along with his more traditional french breakfast croissant style.  The bakery just moved to a location about 3 min away too!

Paul,

Thanks for saying you like the pizza hot dogs.  :)  I think they would really be good with Bratwurst.  I got the idea to try the pizza hot dogs from soft pretzel people in my area that make pretzel dogs.  The do wrap small sausages in the pretzel dough too.  There are very good.  I think almost any kind of regular Lehamann dough or other doughs could be used to make some kind of covering for any kind of meat in casings.

The French bakery hot dog with emmentaler cheese wrapped in brioche dough with a dab of mustard sounds really tasty.  You are lucky to live so close to be able to try them.  ;D

Hope to see your posted Bratwurst creations sometime.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #861 on: June 20, 2011, 06:25:19 PM »
I took the pH reading of the preferment today and it was 5.44.  After the first final dough was mixed the pH was 5.55 The final temperature of the first batch of dough was 74.2 degrees F.  I usually then add water to what is left of the preferment in one container and let it sit in the deli case until I am ready to use the preferment for the second batch.  I donít know why, but the second batch of dough had a pH of 5.65.  The final dough temperature on the second batch was 75.3 degrees F.  To me the preferment didnít look as bubbly today as it usually does, but it seemed okay.

Pictures below

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #862 on: June 22, 2011, 03:22:57 PM »
These are some of the pictures of the preferment Lehmann dough pies made yesterday.  If anyone is interested, Peter and I were posting about how a preferment can affect dough, in my other thread.  Peter started in this post about how a some doughs, that uses a preferment or a natural leavening system, where the acid production are high enough to cause a strengthening of the dough can lead to the point where it is hard to open up the dough balls. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13820.msg144121.html#msg144121

In the following posts, using a preferment and the acids it can create are discussed because I have been having problems on and off with my preferment dough balls being hard to open.  The reason I started taking the pH numbers was because I wanted to see if I could understand more about if too many acids might be causing my dough balls not to open properly and also to see if I could learn more about crust coloration.

Hopefully until next week, I might be able to try some new methods so I donít have the on and off problems of opening my dough balls.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #863 on: June 22, 2011, 03:25:28 PM »
more pictures

Norma
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 03:32:06 PM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #864 on: June 22, 2011, 03:27:41 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #865 on: June 22, 2011, 03:30:12 PM »
end of pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #866 on: June 24, 2011, 10:27:57 PM »
I only let the preferment ferment today for 40 minutes and had turned the Hatco Unit down to 110 degrees F.  I didnít take a picture of what the preferment looked like, but will on Monday.  The preferment only bubbled a little on the top and tiny bubbles could be seen though out the poolish.  I also made a preferment for 5 dough balls to try out in my dough enchancer thread to add EL-7 to see if that helps with stretching issues I am having some times. I let the second preferment bubble the same. I didnít take any pH readings because Craig posted he didnít think pH readings could tell anything in my dough enhancer thread.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #867 on: June 27, 2011, 07:55:47 AM »
After reading over this article again, I am not to sure when in the fermentation process, of using a preferment, how is the best way to let a preferment ferment in terms of temperature, under the Table 5 show in the article.  The findings described in Pyler relative to the gassing power of yeast action on carbohydrates are interesting and of value to the baker it says in the article after a preferment is added.  http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_One.htm

The Fermentation Process

(For example, if 100 lb of flour will yield approximately 180 lb of dough, the degree of expansion in the dough during fermentation and proofing can be sustained by about 3.5% of fermentable carbohydrates, based on flour. Part of these carbohydrates may be comprised of the native sugars of flour, part may result from alpha-amylase action on damaged starch, and part may comprise added  sugar. Any sugar over and beyond the 3.5% level will show up as residual sugar in the finished bread. )

Table 5

Temperature

Deg. C        Deg. F    Maximum Gas Production Rate:   Time to Maximum gas Production rate (in Min.)
                                  In Millimoles CO /hr/g/
                                  Dry Yeast Solids

29           84             20                                                                    150
31           88             23                                                                    135
33           91             24.5                                                                    135
36           96             25                                                                    120
38          100             26                                                                      90
40          104             22.5                                                                      75
42          108             20                                                                      30

http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm


Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #868 on: June 27, 2011, 06:43:27 PM »
I took the pH reading of the preferment today, just to compare it too last  Monday.  The pH was 5.48.  The preferment looked a little more bubbly, at least to me.  I donít know if the decreased temperature or shorter fermentation time, I used to ferment the poolish had anything to do with that or not.

I had also had a dough ball left in the pizza prep fridge when I went to market on Friday.  Somehow it must have been pushed to the back, and at the end of the night when I am tired and hot,  I just visually check the pizza prep fridge and donít usually bend way down to see if something might be pushed into the back.  I will have to check more carefully since this is the second time this has happened.  I didnít take a picture of the dough ball that had sat at room temperature (about 75 degrees F) for 3 days, but the dough ball was very flat and gray.  I just balled it Friday and stuck it back into the plastic bag and placed it into the deli case until today.  It was a sad looking mess today, but I tried to revive it to see what happens.  I place some yeast and more KASL on the dough ball and kneaded, with some additional water too.  The dough ball still doesnít look that great, but I might try making bread with it tomorrow to see what happens.  On the one picture it can be seen how the dough ball looked beside a regular dough ball, before I did anything to it.

First picture is of the preferment today and the rest of the pictures are the sad looking dough ball.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #869 on: June 29, 2011, 09:23:44 AM »
If anyone is interested, I added the EL-7 product to the preferment Lehmann dough to see if it would help opening the preferment Lehmann dough balls.  The other pictures are at this post at Reply 109 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13820.msg144973.html#msg144973

The EL-7 added to the preferment Lehmann dough worked out well.  The dough was easy to open and the crust seemed to be moister since the EL-7 was added.  The taste of the final pizza with EL-7 tasted about the same as a regular preferment Lehmann dough pizza. 

Steve placed fresh basil from my garden on this pizza, so the preferment Lehmann dough with the EL-7 added was a Pizza Margherita, at least for this pie.  ;D

Pictures below

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #870 on: June 29, 2011, 10:40:03 AM »
Norma,

It is good to see that the EL-7 worked out well with the preferment Lehmann dough. Do you plan to repeat the experiment to confirm your results, or will you simply make a larger batch with the EL-7 product since you now have a pretty good idea of how that product works and what to expect?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #871 on: June 29, 2011, 11:14:00 AM »
Norma,

It is good to see that the EL-7 worked out well with the preferment Lehmann dough. Do you plan to repeat the experiment to confirm your results, or will you simply make a larger batch with the EL-7 product since you now have a pretty good idea of how that product works and what to expect?

Peter

Peter,

The EL-7 did work well with the preferment Lehmann dough.  I will repeat the experiment to see if I get the same results before going on to a bigger batch.  The only thing that concerns me about using EL-7, besides the EL-7  having ingredients I donít normally like to use, is the bubble that formed on top of the dough ball even after a one day cold ferment.  I have no idea why that happened.  I havenít posted my results from my experiment of reducing the preferment temperature and time fermenting, but my results yesterday also were good in stretching the dough balls.  I donít know if that was a fluke or not either.  I need to also repeat that same experiment this week.  The temperatures and humidity were quite high, and all the doughs handled beautifully.   It still intrigues me what is going on with some weeks having problems and some weeks not.

Later on today, I will post the pictures of the pizzas made with the shorter and lower temperature preferment time. 

Do you have any ideas about any of the things I posted?

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #872 on: June 29, 2011, 11:39:39 AM »
Norma,

This past week seemed to me to be quite odd, especially with all the things that seemed to have affected the Old Faithful dough. So, I would personally feel more comfortable with more testing of all of the different doughs you made to see if some of the offending factors go away.

What is it about the EL-7 product that you do not like to use?

I forgot to ask you earlier but when you used less salt because of the salt in the EL-7 product, was there a lessened salt taste?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #873 on: June 29, 2011, 12:30:18 PM »
Norma,

This past week seemed to me to be quite odd, especially with all the things that seemed to have affected the Old Faithful dough. So, I would personally feel more comfortable with more testing of all of the different doughs you made to see if some of the offending factors go away.

What is it about the EL-7 product that you do not like to use?

I forgot to ask you earlier but when you used less salt because of the salt in the EL-7 product, was there a lessened salt taste?

Peter

Peter,

I know this past week has been odd, with trying the EL-7 in the ďOld FaithfulĒ dough and also the preferment Lehmann dough.  I have no idea why the dough seems to ferment faster or differently when using the EL-7 product in either doughs.
 
I have no problems experimenting with a product that has L-Cysteine in the ingredients, but like to manage a dough better if I can naturally.  If you had to choose, would you use a product that has  L-Cysteine in the ingredients for customers or even yourself?

To answer your question about using less salt in the ďOld FaithfulĒ dough formula, Steve thought the pizza needed more salt, but I didnít.  Each persons tastes are different.  I did use the same amount of salt in the preferment Lehmann dough with EL-7, but I couldnít notice it was too salty in that pizza. 

I will try the experiments over again for next week.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #874 on: June 29, 2011, 05:11:01 PM »
These are a few pictures of the preferment Lehmann dough pizzas that were made yesterday.  I posted earlier today, the dough balls were very easy to open.  I am not sure if lowering the temperature of the Hatco Unit and decreasing the time the preferment was in the Hatco Unit helped the batches of preferment Lehmann doughs I made or not.  I am going to repeat the same process this week and see what happens.

Pictures below

Norma


 

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