Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza

[norma427]

rest of pictures

Norma

[norma427]

I knew there are endless possibilities for this dough.  I decided I wanted to try to make a BBQ Grill oven.  The BBQ grill uses propane gas.  I first asked forum members for ideas for my BBQ grill oven.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11133.msg100346.html#msg100346

Then I started asking questions about firebricks.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11085.msg99686.html#msg99686   

To make a long story short, tonight in the BBQ grill oven, I made this pizza.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11133.msg101405.html#msg101405

These are a few pictures of the finished pizza using the Preferment for the Lehmann dough and baked in the modified BBQ grill oven. 

Norma

[norma427]

rest of the pictures

I still think this dough can have other uses........I will just have to think about what they could be. 

Norma

[briterian]

Nice to see this thread still having a lot of traction. It continues to be my go-to dough and I continue to let it ferment for 4-5 days for maximum flavor and texture. I had one quick question - I have a sourdough starter (italian from sourdo.com) and I have it coming back to life and would like to know how I should alter this recipe to accomodate a sourdo. I'm thinking it can be used a replacment for the poolish step but I need some help on the quantity that I shoiuld use.   Pete?  Norma?  Anyone.

Thanks in advance,
brian

[Pete-zza]

Brian,

I can't speak for the other members, but if you are talking about the dough formulation posted at Reply 149 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg88687.html#msg88687, I wouldn't have any confidence in any answer that I would give you. Converting a two-stage recipe (poolish and final mix), which is based on using commercial yeast in both stages and precise quantities of ingredients and using a combination of room temperature (or controlled) fermentation and cold fermentation, to a natural fermentation version is not a simple exercise in which you simply swap out natural starters or preferments for the commercial yeast quantities. The results will also depend on the condition and readiness of your starter culture which, even within a known type, such as the sourdo.com Italian starters, can be subject to great variability.

There are methods that have been recommended for converting dough recipes that use commercial yeast to natural yeast versions, such as the Simplistic Conversion Technique described at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/convert.html, but I have not personally tried that method to be able to tell you how well it will work. You might also look at http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howdoiconvertyeastbreadrec.html. Perhaps the member who has had the most experience on the forum with such conversions is Jackie Tran. He might be able to take a look at the dough formulation referenced above and offer some advice. Even then, it may be a challenge to list each ingredient and its quantity for both stages of the process such that you make precisely the desired amount of dough with all of the baker's percents in order. You will perhaps have to do all of the math by hand, or manipulate one of the dough calculating tools to produce the data in the desired format, as I did with the dough formulations I prepared for Norma, since the dough calculating tools were not designed to do what you want to do. The closest tool that might apply to your case would be the preferment dough calculating tool.

Peter

[briterian]

Thanks for honest reply Pete.   I have this starter ready to go so I might take a stab at this and just do something like take half of the polish amt and substitute my starter and take a walk on the wild side.   

[norma427]

Thanks for honest reply Pete.   I have this starter ready to go so I might take a stab at this and just do something like take half of the polish amt and substitute my starter and take a walk on the wild side.   

Brian,

I have never used a starter from sourdough.com.  I am still practicing with this formula. Since the weather has been warmer in our area, I now have found that I can't let the dough out for very long for a warm up or it will start to over ferment.  I have adjusted my final dough temperature lower and in the last few weeks have added a little less yeast to the final mix.  This dough is still excellent in my opinion.  Here are a few pictures I took today of two dough balls after placing in flour and in the start of opening the dough.  You can see there are bubbles in the dough.  I think this then gives the finished crust product nice characteristics.  I like an Artisan crust. 

I hope if you try "walking on the wild side", it will work out for you.    Let us know if you decide to proceed and what results you achieve.

Also one picture of the first two pizzas I made this morning from this dough.

Norma

[norma427]

One picture I forgot to add from Tuesday.  This was the dough left in the deep-dish pan to proof for 1 ½ hrs, before baking.  The pan with the dough in was covered with a linen towel for the proof. I brushed herb oil on the dough before I let it proof. Bottom of deep-dish pan is coated with olive oil. This is how I make the Sicilian pizza, from the preferment for the Lehmann dough. The deep-dish pan is then placed on a screen when going into the oven.

Norma

[norma427]

Another attempt to make pizza in my home BBQ set-up with firebricks from last evening.  Changed some things in the BBQ grill set-up.  This dough used was frozen for two weeks and was the preferment for Lehmann dough.

Norma

[briterian]

Cool 'za.  Norma - can you give us a pic of your bbq setup?

[norma427]

Cool 'za.  Norma - can you give us a pic of your bbq setup?

briterian,

This is the link on the BBQ set-up.  I did change it a few times, but had my best results last evening with this set-up.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11133.msg102003.html#msg102003

Norma

[sear]

One picture I forgot to add from Tuesday.  This was the dough left in the deep-dish pan to proof for 1 ½ hrs, before baking.  The pan with the dough in was covered with a linen towel for the proof. I brushed herb oil on the dough before I let it proof. Bottom of deep-dish pan is coated with olive oil. This is how I make the Sicilian pizza, from the preferment for the Lehmann dough. The deep-dish pan is then placed on a screen when going into the oven.

Norma

Looks great 
I gotta start making more sicilian ! , what size pan is that and what was the dough weight ?

[norma427]

Looks great 
I gotta start making more sicilian ! , what size pan is that and what was the dough weight ?

sear,

Thanks for saying the Sicilian looks great.  This is the formula for a 16" pizza, the weigh of the dough ball and thickness factor.  I use a 14" deep-dish pan for making the Sicilian Pizza.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90226.html#msg90226

If you are interested in seeing some pictures of how the finished Sicilian pizza looks, these are the links.

Reply #460 2nd and 3rd picture down

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg99521.html#msg99521

and Reply# 362 2nd picture down

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg93960.html#msg93960

Norma

[norma427]

Another experiment on my BBQ grill set-up, using frozen, partially thawed, preferment for the Lehmann dough.  In my opinion I like this dough better in the BBQ set-up with firebricks, than when baked in my regular home oven or the oven at market.

The BBQ grill set-up with firebricks gave this dough good grill spring. Rim measured 2" to 2 ½" in some places.

Norma

[norma427]

rest of pictures

Norma

[norma427]

I wanted to make another attempt with this dough in the BBQ grill set-up.  I used a small frozen dough ball for this experiment.  This time I let the frozen dough ball defrost at room temperature for about 3 hours.  I have been curious for awhile about using a high bake temperature to achieve a light airy crust.  I have seen at market different times when using this same dough, that if I let the skin a little thicker and let the rim bigger when opening the dough, that there seems to be more open spring, even at lower bake temperatures.  Even the cheesy breadsticks I made seem to have more oven spring at the edges, when placed on parchment paper and then baked on a aluminum pan. The cheesy breadsticks are opened from this same dough in the same manner as my 16" pizzas. I wanted to test out this mystery in my BBQ grill set-up and try baking at a lower temperature to see if I could get the same results.  Since I work with this same dough every week, I am able to observe how this dough behaves in different situations.  Different things about this dough still intrigue me, and I have been working with this same dough for awhile.

This pizza was baked in the BBQ grill set-up with firebricks at 545 degrees F.  That temperature was on the bottom firebricks.  I had let the top firebricks in the steel pan, heat up first, then placed the bottom firebricks in after the top firebricks heated to 550 degrees F.  I used long tongs to place the bottom firebricks on the grill surface.

I waited until the bottom firebricks heated to around 525 degrees F and then opened the skin and dressed the pie.  The pie was dressed with my regular sauce, Foremost Brand of blended cheese, and pepperoni.  When the pie was finished baking it was dressed with Arugula and Opal basil. 

When the pie was baking in the BBQ grill set-up with firebricks at a lower temperature, it seemed to get a nice oven spring.  This pie tasted great.  Jackie Tran and Peter had mentioned to me, if the bottom seems finished to then place a pan or screen underneath the pie, so the bottom won’t get as dark. I place a small cutter pan under the pie when it looked baked enough. Their ideas really helped in this attempt.  The bottom of this pie was a nice color in my opinion and it still had a crisp crunch when eaten.

I still am wondering how a lower bake temperature can get a decent oven spring and if the dough formula does have something to do with oven spring and not high bake temperatures.  If anyone has any ideas on this, let me know.

Norma

[norma427]

more pictures

Norma

[norma427]

end of pictures

Norma

[norma427]

I uploaded a short video on how this dough looks after coming out of the mixer. This preferment for the Lehmann dough is 61% hydration.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qjAf1xS7d4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qjAf1xS7d4</a>

I usually weigh, ball, then oil, place in a plastic bag, twist the end pony tail style, then put the dough balls on trays.  When I don’t have any help, like today, I just weigh, ball, then oil all the dough balls and place them in plastic bags and onto the dough tray and then cold ferment.

This dough seems to soften, even while balling and then oiling.  On the one picture it can be seen how the dough starts to bubble, after a short while.  It usually takes me about 10 minutes to weigh, ball, oil, and bag 15 lbs. of dough.  This final dough had a final temperature of 73 degrees F.  The poolish is very cold coming out of the deli case, so this helps to keep the dough temperature down.  The one little dough ball I am going to try and experiment on tomorrow, to see if leaving it thicker and leaving more rim, will bake up with more oven spring, like this same dough did in BBQ grill set-up with firebricks.

Few pictures below.

Norma

[norma427]

I am still wondering about using this same dough and getting a higher oven spring, while using the lower bake temperatures. All these pizzas and breadsticks were baked at 525 degrees F.  To add to the pictures of the dough I mixed yesterday, I took some pictures today of some of the pizzas or breadsticks I baked from this one batch of dough.  One of the first pictures  is of the first pie I baked today.  The pepperoni pizza is of the second pie I made today.  Other pictures are of using the small dough ball and letting the rim bigger and also letting the thickness of the crust thicker to see if baking at lower temperature would give a decent oven spring.  I still think the dough formulation has something to do with decent oven spring. One picture included of cheesy breadsticks and rim of the breadsticks.  These were baked on parchment paper and an aluminum pan.

I did get a better oven spring on the small pizza, which had a bigger rim and thicker crust.  I am still trying to compare my lower temperature bake in the BBQ grill set-up with firebricks to using a lower temperature in my deck oven.

In my tests so far, I think it is the dough formulation that helps in oven spring.

Norma