Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 162405 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #800 on: March 23, 2011, 08:23:36 AM »
end of pictures

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #801 on: March 28, 2011, 06:23:03 PM »
As I posted last week, I was going to do another experiment this week to see if adding more water at the end of the mix makes any difference in the dough.  These are two batches of dough I made today, one with adding the water with the preferment and all the other ingredients, except the olive oil at the very end of the mix.  The second batch was made the same way, but the olive oil also was added before I added the extra water I now put in my preferment Lehmann dough.  I am putting more water in my preferment Lehmann dough now because I am beginning to like a higher hydration dough.  As can be seen during the mix of the second batch the water splatters on the sides of the mixing bowl, but it doesnít seem to make any difference in the final dough, after the extra water in incorporated.  I will have to do some more experiments to see if this holds true.  I don't know if this is called a double hydration of water or not.

Pictures of first and second test batches, dough and dough balls.  The one stray dough ball in the picture of the first batch of dough balls is just a leftover dough that didn't weigh enough.  It wasn't balled.

Norma
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 06:26:47 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #802 on: March 28, 2011, 06:23:57 PM »
end of pictures

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Offline Mmmph

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #803 on: March 28, 2011, 08:59:55 PM »
13, plus one stray. 16 in the next batch. Was there that much additional water?
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #804 on: March 28, 2011, 10:17:09 PM »
13, plus one stray. 16 in the next batch. Was there that much additional water?

Mmmph,

The stray dough ball I just put into the second batch.  If you look at the dough balls for the second batch there is also a smaller dough ball at the one end.  I put the same amount of water in both batches.  I just added the water differently for the second experiment.  Both batches were exactly the same with flour, water, IDY, preferment, salt and olive oil.  The preferment Lehmann dough was figured out by Peter.  In a little over the last month I found I like more water in the formula.

I hope what I posted made sense. 

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #805 on: March 29, 2011, 10:46:39 PM »
These were a few pies that were made today with the water added up front and also the extra water added at the end of the mix.  There didnít seem to be any difference in the way the dough baked.  I had lowered my oven temperatures today and the pies seemed to brown better.  I might try lowering the temperature on my oven more next week to see what happens.

Pictures below

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #806 on: March 29, 2011, 10:47:36 PM »
end of pictures

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #807 on: April 01, 2011, 06:26:34 PM »
The one maintenance man at market, is a friend of mine , and also really likes the preferment Lehmann dough to make pizzas.  He buys dough balls from me and also tries some of my experimental pies.  He is always asking what kind of experimental pizzas either Steve or I am making for the week.  When he came to buy dough balls from me Tuesday, he drew a picture on a paper plate.  He said the name for my pizza stand should be Normaís Dough-LI-Lama Pizza, since I like to play with dough so much.  I really liked the name he suggested and also how he drew a dough ball.  The maintenance man drew this picture in less than 5 minutes.  I asked him how he can draw so fast and he said he just visualizes what he wants to draw and then does it.

Picture below

Norma

Offline StrayBullet

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #808 on: April 01, 2011, 08:15:36 PM »
I see a new logo in your future Norma; that's awesome!

Mark


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #809 on: April 01, 2011, 11:01:17 PM »
I see a new logo in your future Norma; that's awesome!

Mark

Mark,

The maintenance man draws many caricatures of different people, makes Christmas cards and other things with his drawings.  He is really good at doing that.  :) I had thought about him drawing a caricature of me, but was afraid what I might look like.  :-D I do like his drawing as a logo. I am going to laminate it and hang it at my stand. 

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #810 on: April 06, 2011, 08:40:46 AM »
I decided to do another experiment on the preferment Lehmann dough since I am using a higher hydration.  For one batch I formed the dough balls in the normal way I do.  For the second batch I formed the dough balls and left them sit for 5 minutes after I formed them and then reballed again.  I donít know what anyone else thinks, but I think from this first test the finished crust looks more artisan looking, from the extra reball.  It also seemed to me that there were more bubbles in the skin when opening them.  

I also did one experiment on one dough ball from the extra reball.  I just pressed the dough out and put it into the oven.  It browned nicely and formed what was like a balloon like it normally would, but I left it in the oven a little longer.  The dough ball looked almost like bread when it was finished baking.  I then left it cool, cut it in half and spread Nutella on the one side and put it back into the oven so the Nutella would melt.  After the second short bake, I sprinkled powdered sugar over the top.  Steve, another stand holder and I really enjoyed this Nutella pie.

On another note, the man at market that drew the picture he created for me last week visited me yesterday and said he really likes to do cartoons, caricatures, and drawings of people.  I asked him if he could do a cartoon drawing of me.  He came up with so many good ideas and since he really likes Gary Larson and Bill Waterson, and follows what they do,  he said he is going to make a cartoon of me in various ways of my dough and pizza making.  Should be interesting to see what he comes up with.  He took a picture of me for his cartoon of me.  The man said he really likes to do one cell cartoons.  I know he is very talented.  It is interesting to me how he gets all his ideas and then can put them onto paper.  I might look like the Far Sided character I usually am with all my experimenting.  :-D

Pictures of tests on two different doughs and Nutella Pie.  First set of pictures is from the extra reball of the dough balls.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 08:48:49 AM by norma427 »

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #811 on: April 06, 2011, 08:43:04 AM »
more pictures of reballed dough pies

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #812 on: April 06, 2011, 08:44:44 AM »
non reballed dough pies

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #813 on: April 06, 2011, 08:46:26 AM »
Nutella pie

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #814 on: April 13, 2011, 11:11:33 AM »
I donít know what was the problem with my dough yesterday, but I think I might have reballed it too much or either the temperature when I made the final dough made a difference.  Last week when I balled two different batches of dough, I did reballed on one batch of dough balls two times.  I thought last week, they were harder to open than normal, but wasnít sure.  I decided on Monday to reball the dough balls from two batches 1 time again. This sure could have been a mistake.  I had good luck with reballing a higher hydration dough like Reinhart NY style dough two times or more.  That is one reason I was experimenting on the preferment Lehmann dough balls. Yesterday those two batches of dough balls were really hard to open and some of the skins wanted to tear in a few places.  Usually when opening the dough balls there arenít any problems with opening the dough balls.  We broke a record for temperatures in our area on Monday when I made the final dough.  It was 84 degrees F.  I still donít know if this also might have caused the problems with opening the dough, but it might have.  I sure didnít like how these dough balls behaved.  Even Steve opened a few dough balls and had the same problems.  I surely donít want these problems every week.  The dough balls seemed to ferment so much faster too, when left out at room temperatures to temper, yesterday.  I donít usually open my dough balls right out of the cooler, but that seemed to work  better.  It was cooler in our area yesterday (47 degrees F and raining most of the day).  From the experiments in reballing in the last two weeks, I think, but am not sure, knowing when to reball can be complicated.  There must be some relation to hydration, temperature, and just enough tightness in the dough balls. All these dough balls were left to cold ferment for almost a day, so I would have thought the gluten would have been aligned okay. At least these are my opinions for now.

Dave, the man that drew the drawing for me the other week, came to my pizza stand a few times yesterday.  He said he had made a cartoon of me, but wasnít finished.  I asked him if I could see the cartoon, because I was curious to see what it looked like.  He brought the cartoon for me to see.  I have to laugh out loud, because I thought the caption was funny about me.  I told him the drawing was fine and he didnít have to do anymore on it.  He said he had wanted to color it in more and it was only a first draft.  I told Dave it was fine.  Dave told me that it is based on cartoons he has followed by B. Kliban and Gary Larson.   He told me that Gary Larson had been influenced by B. Kliban.  I donít really think the caption is what I would dream of, but I  thought it was hilarious.  :-D  Dave said he would do more cartoon or drawings for me, whenever I wanted.  He even said he would draw a book about my pizza making, with captions, if I wanted.  Dave does have a degree in art and does teach children how to draw cartoons, in addition to being a maintenance man at market.  I really like Dave and think his drawings, cartoons and ways of thinking are unique.  He always makes Steve and me laugh.  

Any comments of the cartoon Dave made of Farsided me?

Pictures of Dave and the cartoon of me.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 11:16:59 AM by norma427 »

Offline briterian

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #815 on: April 18, 2011, 09:55:35 PM »
Hi Norma
Nice to see this thread still very active.   Are you able to summarize your go to recipe?  I'm having trouble sifting through your awesome experiments to see if there is one standout.   Thanks
Brian

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #816 on: April 18, 2011, 10:17:27 PM »
Hi Norma
Nice to see this thread still very active.   Are you able to summarize your go to recipe?  I'm having trouble sifting through your awesome experiments to see if there is one standout.   Thanks
Brian

Brian,

How many dough balls did you want to know about making?  The only thing I have been trying is adding more water to the formula, but I really canít tell you how much, unless you want to know about a 15 lb. batch.  The only other experiment I was doing with this dough was giving it an extra reball, after about 10 mintues.  I didnít like the effect that had when opening the dough balls last week.  I am back this week to just adding a little more water, because I do like a little higher hydration dough.  I didnít do any extra reball this week.  The extra reball last week caused too many problems.

Basically I am doing the same thing as I did before.

If there is anything you need to know, just ask.  

Norma


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #817 on: April 28, 2011, 11:35:32 PM »
I just wanted to update what I did with the dough this last week after the other problems I was having after doing a second reball.  I am now going back to just balling the dough ball once.  My dough balls were easier to open this past Tuesday.  I forgot to post these pictures and update this thread right after Tuesday.

These are just two pictures of the same pie on Tuesday morning.  I didnít take any other pictures of the pies though out the day, but they all looked somewhat the same as these pictures.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #818 on: April 29, 2011, 08:58:42 PM »
Norma,

To be sure I understand, are you saying that you experienced problems opening the preferment Lehmann dough balls when you formed them into balls and didn't later reball them at all or that the problems arose when you tried to reball the dough balls once after forming, or maybe twice? Also, what hydration values were you using?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #819 on: April 29, 2011, 10:39:03 PM »
Norma,

To be sure I understand, are you saying that you experienced problems opening the preferment Lehmann dough balls when you formed them into balls and didn't later reball them at all or that the problems arose when you tried to reball the dough balls once after forming, or maybe twice? Also, what hydration values were you using?

Peter

Peter,

What I meant was I had been trying for a couple of weeks reballing the dough balls after I had balled them once. The first week that worked out okay for the one batch I tried it on.  Then 2 weeks ago I did reball all of my batches of dough balls.  I did the reball right after I had all the dough balls from one batch balled once.  That is when the problem arose. I donít know why 2 weeks ago I then was having problems with opening the dough balls.  That didnít happen before.  That is why I went back to just balling the dough normally.

I donít know what hydration I am using, but I am adding 3.60 lbs of water to a 15 lb. batch.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #820 on: April 29, 2011, 11:04:15 PM »
Norma,

If the 3.6 pounds of water is added to the final mix, without changing anything else, then I estimate that the total formula hydration is a bit over 63%. It may be that you are on the cusp where the results can go one way or the other without warning. Maybe you have to go to considerably higher hydration before you can be sure of getting the results you are looking for when resorting to reballing.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #821 on: April 29, 2011, 11:26:41 PM »
Norma,

If the 3.6 pounds of water is added to the final mix, without changing anything else, then I estimate that the total formula hydration is a bit over 63%. It may be that you are on the cusp where the results can go one way or the other without warning. Maybe you have to go to considerably higher hydration before you can be sure of getting the results you are looking for when resorting to reballing.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me about what you think the hydration is I am using now.  I am not going to fool around with the reball anymore, because I didnít like the way that dough behaved.  It kept wanting to stretch back and not open right.  The week I had the most problems was a week that the temperature at market was really warm when I was mixing, balling, and reballing the dough.  I donít know if that was part of the problem or not, but the dough balls wanted to really ferment too fast when letting them warm-up.  I had better luck just taking them out of the cooler or deli case and opening them.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #822 on: April 29, 2011, 11:31:05 PM »
Well, tonight was one of those pizza making nights that everything seems to go wrong.  :-D I had wanted to try out my steel pan to bake a pizza on that I had purchased last Saturday.  I hadnít thought of measuring the steel pan, before I defrosted one frozen dough ball.  When I went to place the steel pan in the oven it was 1 Ĺ inches to big for the oven.  I tried every which way to place it in the oven, with no luck.  I then was thinking of some other way to try out the defrosted dough ball.  I decided to try a combination of my pizza stone and another steel pan I have.  I placed the pizza stone on the middle rack and put the steel pan on the top rack, just to see what would happen.  I let the oven heat for over an hour and even had the broiler on some of the time.  I donít know what was going on with that combination of pizza stone and steel pan, but this was the longest bake of a pizza in my home oven.  This pizza took over 11 minutes to bake.  That is a long time.  I also tried something else I hadnít tried before with this pizza.  I loaded the pie into the oven with my metal peel.  That almost was a disaster.  The pie almost slid onto the oven rack instead of the pizza stone. 

The pizza was dressed with my regular tomato sauce, my regular blend of mozzarella cheeses, EL Abuelto mozzarella cheese and Dietz &Watson pepperoni.  The pizza was okay, but not like I would have like it to be.

Pictures below

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #823 on: April 29, 2011, 11:32:29 PM »
end of pictures

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #824 on: May 14, 2011, 10:48:17 PM »
I know I try the craziest stuff sometimes, but when I went to market yesterday to make my poolish for the preferment Lehmann dough and also do some cleaning, I found a leftover dough ball that must have been pushed back in my pizza prep refrigerator, from Tuesday. The dough ball really smelled like alcohol. I always turn the pizza prep refrigerator off before I go home from market to save on the electric bill.  I also always open the door on the bottom and the lid on top of the pizza prep refrigerator so it doesnít get moldy.  When I went to clean in the inside of the bottom of the fridge, I found this sad looking dough ball.  It looked like it had really overfermented.  At first, I was going to throw it out, but thought I would do an experiment on it.  

I opened the plastic bag and put some IDY on the flattened dough ball, then did reballing with a little flour.  I then took the dough ball along into Lancaster.  It sat out for about 2 hrs.  I then reballed again after I returned home with a little more flour.  This morning, I did another reball, and the dough looked like it was okay. I floured the outside of the dough ball.  After I finished making another pizza today I thought I might as well use this dough ball and see if it could be baked into bread. I donít have any useful things to score bread with so I just used a little Exacto knife.  I also got my steam cleaner out to try and steam the dough.  I donít have any regular bread making equipment, but just used a Pyrex mixing bowl to place over the dough on the heated pizza stone.  I lifted the glass Pyrex bowl about 5 times and really steamed the dough ball.  That was about in a 15 minute time frame.  I then let the dough ball keep baking on the pizza stone, until the middle of the bread measured about 210 degrees F on my thermometer.  I was surprised that the old sad looking overfermented preferment Lehmann dough ball did turn into bread. What really surprised me is how good this bread tasted and there wasnít even any sour taste in the bread.  ;D

Pictures below

Norma
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 10:56:43 PM by norma427 »


 

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