Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 155288 times)

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Offline ninetwosix

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #900 on: August 13, 2011, 03:05:52 PM »
What happens if after you make the dough you let it sit for a warm rise of about 24 hours and then use the dough to make the pizza? Do you have to put it in the fridge for a cold rise?  What does that depend on?


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #901 on: August 13, 2011, 05:13:00 PM »
What happens if after you make the dough you let it sit for a warm rise of about 24 hours and then use the dough to make the pizza? Do you have to put it in the fridge for a cold rise?  What does that depend on?

ninetwosix,

Although I never tried a warm rise of 24 hrs., with the preferment Lehmann dough, I think it would be possible, if less yeast was added to the final dough.  I am not sure how much less yeast should be used though.  That would all depend on the ambient room temperatures, final dough temperature, and maybe other variables.  The preferment part of this dough can be made in a matter of hours.  I have tried that before.  Do you plan on using IDY as the yeast?   

You can see what Peter (Pete-zza) had to go through to be able to make a preferment dough for Andre, with different temperatures and fermentation times, at Reply 36 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13080.msg128439.html#msg128439   

As you can see from Peterís post, there is a lot that can go into trying to find the right combination to try. 

Do you have any reason to want to try a warm rise of 24 hrs, with a preferment?

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #902 on: August 17, 2011, 10:51:56 AM »
I tried a couple of different things when making two Greek pizzas yesterday.  I first turned my oven down in temperature a little.  I used corn oil in my steel pans, as the oil in coating the pans for the Greek style pizzas.  I generously coated the steel pan with oil for the first and second Greek style pizzas.

The first Greek style Lehmann dough pizzas dressings were various cheeses, my regular tomato sauce, and spinach under the cheeses.  I had brushed garlic and herb infused olive oil on the crust first, before any of the other toppings.  When baking the first Greek style pizza, the bottom crust did become browner than before, but not as brown or crisp as I wanted. 

For the second Greek style pizza with the Lehmann dough, I turned my oven down lower, (about 500-515 degree F) and baked the same way as the first Greek pizza.  By turning the oven down the bottom crust did become browner and crisper.  I also notice that when using the new steel pans, I purchased not to long ago, the more times they are used and seasoned, they seem to work much better with each bake. I have used the round steel pan also for some cracker-style pizzas, in addition to using the steel pan for Greek style pizzas.  I just started experimenting with my square steel pan for other pizzas and I donít think it is seasoned as well.  I will see if the pizzas baked in the square pan will get browner also the more I season it. I didnít bake a Greek style in the square steel pan yesterday, but I did bake another pizza, and the bottom didnít get as brown or as crisp, even though I did bake at lower temperatures. The other pizza wasnít using the preferment Lehmann dough, but I did oil with the same oil and the same amount.

The second Greek pizza was dressed with almost the same dressings as the first, but sliced yellow zucchini (on the mandoline), Feta cheese and pepperoni were added to the second pie.  I thought the second Greek pizza was delicious.

What I find odd or either interesting, is my regular preferment Lehmann dough pizzas baked at the lower temperatures did seem to turn out well.

Pictures below and last two pictures are of the round and square pans today, with the round steel pan first.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #903 on: August 17, 2011, 10:55:56 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #904 on: August 17, 2011, 10:57:56 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #905 on: August 17, 2011, 10:59:03 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #906 on: August 24, 2011, 08:09:14 AM »
This is another Greek pizza made with the preferment Lehmann dough.  I forgot my steel pan that I had at home, so I had to use a non-steel pan for this Greek style pizza.  The Greek pizza did turn out okay in my non-steel pan, but I like the results of my steel pan better, when making a Greek style pizza.  My steel pan make the edges of the pie brown more even, and also the pie is much easier to get out of the pan when using a steel pan.

This time I didnít dock the preferment Lehmann dough, but I did roll it out with a rolling pin.  I donít know if is the non-steel pan made the pie rise in the pan, while in the oven or not, but I had to watch it and then pick around the edges to break the seal, so the pie would go back down in the pan.  Somehow, the pie baking started to rise and not touch the bottom of the pan.  As soon as I broke the seal around the crisp edges the dough went down to the bottom in the pan.  This same thing happened yesterday, with the pizza I posted at the Greek thread, using Peterís MA#2 formula for a Greek pizza, at Reply 271 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg150630.html#msg150630


The Greek pizza was dressed with garlic herb infused oil, my regular tomato sauce, spinach, cheddar, 2 kinds of mozzarella, Mortadella, and fresh cherry tomatoes from my garden. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #907 on: August 24, 2011, 08:10:51 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #908 on: August 24, 2011, 08:11:45 AM »
Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #909 on: August 31, 2011, 08:02:24 AM »
I made two different Greek style pizzas with the preferment Lehmann dough yesterday.  What was the differences in these two pizzas from what I did before was one dough ball was frozen and one dough ball was freshly made, and both Greek Style pizzas were baked in the steel pans, with a different oil.  I greased the steel pans with 1 tablespoon and 1 teaspoon of Mexican Manteca. The bottom crust on both of these pizzas was better in taste. texture. and mouthfeel. I donít know, but I guess the Mexican Manteca was responsible for the better taste and amount of crispness in the bottom crust.  The bottom crust really wasnít crispy, but different than the other Greek Style pizzas I have made before.  Both of these dough balls were the regular size of dough balls I used for my regular pizzas.


The first Greek Style pizza was dressed with brushed garlic herb infused olive oil, marinated artichoke hearts from Aldi http://aldi.us/us/html/product_range/2744_8332_ENU_HTML.htm , my regular tomato sauce, red and green hydrated dried peppers, cheddar, mozzarella, and a blend of three other grated cheeses.  I thought the blend of marinated artichoke heart with the other dressings gave this Greek style of pizza a really good taste.  There are pictures of the pan with Mexican Mexican manteca in the next few posts, before and after the bake.  I think somehow I got my camera lens greasy from the Mexican manteca, because the pictures in some places are blurry.  I donít know if anyone has tried the marinated artichoke hearts from Aldi before on a pizza, but I thought they tasted good on this pizza.

In my opinion, it is interesting that the same dough can produce such a different pizza.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #910 on: August 31, 2011, 08:05:29 AM »
Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #911 on: August 31, 2011, 08:06:50 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #912 on: August 31, 2011, 08:09:21 AM »
This is the second pizza that was made from a fresh dough ball with manteca applied to the steel pan.  This pizza was dressed with garlic herb infused olive oil, my regular sauce, spinach, sausage crumbles, cheddar and mozzarella.  I also thought this pizza also had a good taste.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #913 on: August 31, 2011, 08:10:42 AM »
Norma
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 08:12:54 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #914 on: August 31, 2011, 01:00:55 PM »
Norma,

Have you found the Greek preferment Lehmann dough to produce Greek style pizzas of sufficient merit to warrant sneaking them into your pizza repertoire from time to time to sell to customers?

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #915 on: August 31, 2011, 04:07:47 PM »
Norma,

Have you found the Greek preferment Lehmann dough to produce Greek style pizzas of sufficient merit to warrant sneaking them into your pizza repertoire from time to time to sell to customers?

Peter

Peter,

I have found the Greek preferment Lehmann doughs are great for making a Greek pizza.  Steve just commented yesterday that he thinks the preferment Lehmann dough makes great Greek pizzas.  I am starting to sell more Greek Style slices. I think it will take customers awhile to get used to a different pizza, but hopefully they would will eventually like them.  I think I am now leaning a little more to the side of Greek style pizzas, than NY style pizzas.  I never thought I would say that, but I still like both styles.  I will have to make more Greek pizzas in the following weeks, so more customers can taste some.  I also really like the Mexican manteca oil, used as the oil for greasing the pans.  The manteca oil just brought up the taste a notch in the crust.  I don't know what customers would think though if they knew I had used Mexican manteca as the oil.  I guess many wouldn't like that.  ::)

Norma
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #916 on: August 31, 2011, 09:59:25 PM »
Great looking pizzas Norma...
You know what I love most about this type of pizza...its the texture...absolutely love the crunch on the bottom.  You mention manteca...isn't that simply a lard?

John


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #917 on: August 31, 2011, 11:14:35 PM »
Great looking pizzas Norma...
You know what I love most about this type of pizza...its the texture...absolutely love the crunch on the bottom.  You mention manteca...isn't that simply a lard?

John

John,

Thanks for your nice compliment!  Glad to hear you also like the style of pizzas I made.   :)

The Mexican manteca I used for the oil in the steel pan I posted a picture at Reply 7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg137061.html#msg137061   It is a bit different than lard. Don, (buceriasdon) posted pictures of making real Mexican in Mexico at Reply 14  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg137167.html#msg137167
I did try the Goya lard before that I had purchased at Reply 62 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13668.msg138891.html#msg138891  but the Goya lard did give a different flavor to the dough, than the Mexican manteca.

Norma
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #918 on: August 31, 2011, 11:48:38 PM »
Gotta love that liquid pig stuff....Pork Fat Rules!!!
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #919 on: September 01, 2011, 06:38:28 AM »
Gotta love that liquid pig stuff....Pork Fat Rules!!!

Jon,

Glad you like the liquid pig stuff!   ;D  Since you work in a hospital, what would you tell patients if they used a lot of pork fat in cooking or for frying? Do you know how bad pork fat is if used in oiling pans for pizza?

Norma
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #920 on: September 01, 2011, 07:23:40 AM »
Well, I look at like this Norma. They talk about good fats and bad fats, in reality in my mind there are no 'good' fats. If olive oil was that 'good' for you we would be drinking it by the glassfulls, not so good I think. There are just fats that are more bad than others and we all know what they are and where they come from. I'm as apt to use olive oil as I would butter or lard or bacon grease for frying depending on my mood and the planets and the wind....;-) but I certainly like some better than others for flavor, smoke point etc. The key is moderation and activity. My gramps on my dads side let it be known that NO ONE was to touch the heal of the bread at breakfast at risk of a good hard rap on the knuckles (hard with 13 kids) because on the way thru the kitchen to go out and milk the cows he would take that heal of bread and soak up a bunch of that still warm bacon grease from the cast iron skillet and get those bacon bits and eat it on the way out to the barn. Lived to be 92 because he worked it off. Still miss raw milk from the barn with that cream layer on top.....anyway you get my point. Move, eat a healthy varied diet, not processed crap and I think we can afford some pork fat in our lives now and then. Live on processed junk from a box, fast food and the like....well then you're just throwing gas in the fire. Mind you I'm far from 'Saint Eat Right' but try to stay midpoint as best I can. Anyway, my rant on the subject.
Jon ;D

I still like dipping my toast in hot bacon grease too.......
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #921 on: September 01, 2011, 07:49:11 AM »
Well, I look at like this Norma. They talk about good fats and bad fats, in reality in my mind there are no 'good' fats. If olive oil was that 'good' for you we would be drinking it by the glassfulls, not so good I think. There are just fats that are more bad than others and we all know what they are and where they come from. I'm as apt to use olive oil as I would butter or lard or bacon grease for frying depending on my mood and the planets and the wind....;-) but I certainly like some better than others for flavor, smoke point etc. The key is moderation and activity. My gramps on my dads side let it be known that NO ONE was to touch the heal of the bread at breakfast at risk of a good hard rap on the knuckles (hard with 13 kids) because on the way thru the kitchen to go out and milk the cows he would take that heal of bread and soak up a bunch of that still warm bacon grease from the cast iron skillet and get those bacon bits and eat it on the way out to the barn. Lived to be 92 because he worked it off. Still miss raw milk from the barn with that cream layer on top.....anyway you get my point. Move, eat a healthy varied diet, not processed crap and I think we can afford some pork fat in our lives now and then. Live on processed junk from a box, fast food and the like....well then you're just throwing gas in the fire. Mind you I'm far from 'Saint Eat Right' but try to stay midpoint as best I can. Anyway, my rant on the subject.
Jon ;D

I still like dipping my toast in hot bacon grease too.......


Jon,

I guess I look at eating the same way you do.  I do eat a lot of pizza, but then some days I only eat salads, fruits, nuts and healthy foods for days.  I donít think it really matter too much if some fatty foods are thrown in sometimes.  I also really like bacon, but only eat it about once a month or less.  I donít really think there are ďgood fatsĒ either.  There continues to be changes on the thinking of that.  My gramps and my dad were a lot like your gramps.  They both worked hard and did eat a lot of fatty foods, but were healthy.  I canít remember either of them being in the hospital for anything, until they were much older.  I also think that processed food stuff you just buy off the shelves at supermarkets is much worse for people, than anything you can make by yourself. 

I enjoyed your rant.  ;D I guess I am in the same boat as you.  :-D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #922 on: September 05, 2011, 08:10:33 PM »
I had made too many dough balls (regular Lehmann) for the Artís and Craft Event where I had posted about some of the dough balls at Reply 7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15292.msg151764.html#msg151764

I also had unfrozen some dough balls (preferment Lehmann) leftover from the past couple of weeks at market, and had all the dough balls in a cooler with ice for the Artís and Craft Event on the last day.  The ice became partly unfrozen and all the dough balls submerged in the icy water.  I was going to throw them away, but decided to put them in my deli cooler (Sunday) and try to do something with them today, because I knew there wouldnít be any time to make experimental doughs this week.  

I took the soggy looking dough balls out of the plastic bags, and then put them on top of each other and tried to knead them together.  I guess the gluten really became tangled, because the dough sure felt stiff and not manageable. Either it was the dough balls gluten became tangled, or the dough balls were too cold.  Maybe there were also other reasons for the way the dough felt, that I donít understand about either. I donít know if the gluten will relax or what will happen with the dough balls, but it will be interesting, at least to me, to see what happens tomorrow. A regular Lehmann and preferment Lehmann combination dough.  :-D

This is what the dough balls looked like before in the plastic bags (today at market) and then through the process, until they were balled today.  The dough balls sure felt like a tangled mess.  I donít know if any member has tried this before, but I now have eight regular Lehmann and preferment Lehmann dough balls mixed, at my average preferment Lehmann dough ball weight.

Norma
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 08:12:11 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #923 on: September 05, 2011, 08:38:34 PM »
Norma,

The second pic looks a lot like my brain when I'm at my wits end with dough formulas!  ;D
Mike

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #924 on: September 05, 2011, 09:03:59 PM »
Norma,

The second pic looks a lot like my brain when I'm at my wits end with dough formulas!  ;D

Mike,

Your post gave me a good chuckle!  :-D Thanks for the laugh! Those two doughs together, felt like the weirdest dough I have ever felt before.  I really donít think they will be any good, but thought, why not try them together and see what happens. 

Norma
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