Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 128430 times)

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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #920 on: September 01, 2011, 07:23:40 AM »
Well, I look at like this Norma. They talk about good fats and bad fats, in reality in my mind there are no 'good' fats. If olive oil was that 'good' for you we would be drinking it by the glassfulls, not so good I think. There are just fats that are more bad than others and we all know what they are and where they come from. I'm as apt to use olive oil as I would butter or lard or bacon grease for frying depending on my mood and the planets and the wind....;-) but I certainly like some better than others for flavor, smoke point etc. The key is moderation and activity. My gramps on my dads side let it be known that NO ONE was to touch the heal of the bread at breakfast at risk of a good hard rap on the knuckles (hard with 13 kids) because on the way thru the kitchen to go out and milk the cows he would take that heal of bread and soak up a bunch of that still warm bacon grease from the cast iron skillet and get those bacon bits and eat it on the way out to the barn. Lived to be 92 because he worked it off. Still miss raw milk from the barn with that cream layer on top.....anyway you get my point. Move, eat a healthy varied diet, not processed crap and I think we can afford some pork fat in our lives now and then. Live on processed junk from a box, fast food and the like....well then you're just throwing gas in the fire. Mind you I'm far from 'Saint Eat Right' but try to stay midpoint as best I can. Anyway, my rant on the subject.
Jon ;D

I still like dipping my toast in hot bacon grease too.......
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #921 on: September 01, 2011, 07:49:11 AM »
Well, I look at like this Norma. They talk about good fats and bad fats, in reality in my mind there are no 'good' fats. If olive oil was that 'good' for you we would be drinking it by the glassfulls, not so good I think. There are just fats that are more bad than others and we all know what they are and where they come from. I'm as apt to use olive oil as I would butter or lard or bacon grease for frying depending on my mood and the planets and the wind....;-) but I certainly like some better than others for flavor, smoke point etc. The key is moderation and activity. My gramps on my dads side let it be known that NO ONE was to touch the heal of the bread at breakfast at risk of a good hard rap on the knuckles (hard with 13 kids) because on the way thru the kitchen to go out and milk the cows he would take that heal of bread and soak up a bunch of that still warm bacon grease from the cast iron skillet and get those bacon bits and eat it on the way out to the barn. Lived to be 92 because he worked it off. Still miss raw milk from the barn with that cream layer on top.....anyway you get my point. Move, eat a healthy varied diet, not processed crap and I think we can afford some pork fat in our lives now and then. Live on processed junk from a box, fast food and the like....well then you're just throwing gas in the fire. Mind you I'm far from 'Saint Eat Right' but try to stay midpoint as best I can. Anyway, my rant on the subject.
Jon ;D

I still like dipping my toast in hot bacon grease too.......


Jon,

I guess I look at eating the same way you do.  I do eat a lot of pizza, but then some days I only eat salads, fruits, nuts and healthy foods for days.  I donít think it really matter too much if some fatty foods are thrown in sometimes.  I also really like bacon, but only eat it about once a month or less.  I donít really think there are ďgood fatsĒ either.  There continues to be changes on the thinking of that.  My gramps and my dad were a lot like your gramps.  They both worked hard and did eat a lot of fatty foods, but were healthy.  I canít remember either of them being in the hospital for anything, until they were much older.  I also think that processed food stuff you just buy off the shelves at supermarkets is much worse for people, than anything you can make by yourself. 

I enjoyed your rant.  ;D I guess I am in the same boat as you.  :-D

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #922 on: September 05, 2011, 08:10:33 PM »
I had made too many dough balls (regular Lehmann) for the Artís and Craft Event where I had posted about some of the dough balls at Reply 7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15292.msg151764.html#msg151764

I also had unfrozen some dough balls (preferment Lehmann) leftover from the past couple of weeks at market, and had all the dough balls in a cooler with ice for the Artís and Craft Event on the last day.  The ice became partly unfrozen and all the dough balls submerged in the icy water.  I was going to throw them away, but decided to put them in my deli cooler (Sunday) and try to do something with them today, because I knew there wouldnít be any time to make experimental doughs this week.  

I took the soggy looking dough balls out of the plastic bags, and then put them on top of each other and tried to knead them together.  I guess the gluten really became tangled, because the dough sure felt stiff and not manageable. Either it was the dough balls gluten became tangled, or the dough balls were too cold.  Maybe there were also other reasons for the way the dough felt, that I donít understand about either. I donít know if the gluten will relax or what will happen with the dough balls, but it will be interesting, at least to me, to see what happens tomorrow. A regular Lehmann and preferment Lehmann combination dough.  :-D

This is what the dough balls looked like before in the plastic bags (today at market) and then through the process, until they were balled today.  The dough balls sure felt like a tangled mess.  I donít know if any member has tried this before, but I now have eight regular Lehmann and preferment Lehmann dough balls mixed, at my average preferment Lehmann dough ball weight.

Norma
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 08:12:11 PM by norma427 »
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Offline Essen1

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #923 on: September 05, 2011, 08:38:34 PM »
Norma,

The second pic looks a lot like my brain when I'm at my wits end with dough formulas!  ;D
Mike

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #924 on: September 05, 2011, 09:03:59 PM »
Norma,

The second pic looks a lot like my brain when I'm at my wits end with dough formulas!  ;D

Mike,

Your post gave me a good chuckle!  :-D Thanks for the laugh! Those two doughs together, felt like the weirdest dough I have ever felt before.  I really donít think they will be any good, but thought, why not try them together and see what happens. 

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #925 on: September 06, 2011, 09:53:31 PM »
I found out the preferment Lehmann dough and the regular Lehmann dough can be mixed, and the gluten must have arranged itself okay, because the dough balls sure felt different today, and they could be opened.  I used the dough balls for cheesy breadsticks, Greek style pizza, Calzones, other items, and some regular pizzas.  I really didnít think the dough balls would be useable today, but they were.  Dough still never ceases to amaze me.  I donít know how the tangled mess rearranged itself.  

For the Greek pizza I greased the steel pan with 3 tablespoons of manteca to see what would happen.  That is a lot of manteca in my opinion, but I wanted to see if the bottom crust would brown better, and also have more crunch.  

First set of pictures were the cheesy breadsticks.  Second set of pictures were the Greek pizza.  Third set of pictures are the one regular pizza.  I didnít take any pictures of the other products, or the other pizzas.

Norma
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:02:25 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #926 on: September 06, 2011, 09:56:10 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #927 on: September 06, 2011, 09:58:14 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #928 on: September 06, 2011, 10:00:08 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #929 on: September 06, 2011, 10:00:58 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #930 on: September 06, 2011, 10:32:23 PM »
I decided to use a preferment Lehmann dough ball I had made yesterday, (not the regular Lehmann and preferment Lehmann dough mixed) and bake it in my square steel pan with manteca as the oil.  I also use 3 tablespoons of manteca to oil the square steel pan.  We thought this pizza was very tasty.  As can be seen on the steel pan after the bake, there was a lot of manteca left that wasnít soaked up by the bottom crust.  I didnít use a paper towel to oil this time, but used the rubber spatula I had posted in my last post. 
 
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #931 on: September 06, 2011, 10:34:04 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #932 on: September 06, 2011, 10:35:34 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #933 on: September 06, 2011, 10:39:22 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #934 on: September 07, 2011, 09:50:02 AM »
Norma,

I wondered how the mixed dough balls would work, especially since I recalled that Tom Lehmann had discussed how to combine different size dough balls to form a single dough ball. I hunted down the thread where he discusses this matter, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=44360#44360.

BTW, how did the pizzas made from the commingled doughs taste and did the larger amount of Mexican manteca that you used produce the desired degree of bottom crust crispiness that you were hoping for?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #935 on: September 07, 2011, 11:37:40 AM »
Norma,

I wondered how the mixed dough balls would work, especially since I recalled that Tom Lehmann had discussed how to combine different size dough balls to form a single dough ball. I hunted down the thread where he discusses this matter, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=44360#44360.

BTW, how did the pizzas made from the commingled doughs taste and did the larger amount of Mexican manteca that you used produce the desired degree of bottom crust crispiness that you were hoping for?

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for hunting down the link to what Tom Lehmann replied about putting dough balls together.  I never saw that reply from Tom before. I sure didnít go by Tomís method. 

It is a wonder that my combined dough balls relaxed and were useable.  Do you have any explanation on how the combined doughs, then made into dough balls, could have aligned the gluten okay to be able to be used?  I know I did everything wrong with those dough balls, and how they were combined into one dough.  I never felt such a tight dough before.  I donít know, but it almost felt like some doughs I had made before than had too many stretch and folds and then became to hard to open.  Now I think about it, I guess those dough balls that I gave too many stretch and folds or reballs, might have been easier to use if left them to ferment longer.  I am not sure of that though.

To answer you question about how the commingled baked products from those dough balls tasted, I thought they tasted better than my regular preferment Lehmann dough or regular Lehmann dough products.  I did save 1 dough ball and froze it again last night to see what happens to it next week.  I guess I am pressing my luck, but wanted to see if somehow that dough ball is still useable.

To answer your other question about how the large amount of manteca gave the right amount of crispness, I would say it did, but would think from the amount of manteca left on the pan, I wouldnít need to add as much the next time.  I will have to experiment more with the amount of manteca to add to a pan.  I didnít take a picture of the round steel Greek pizza pan after it baked, but there was less oil left in that pan.  That dough was from the commingled dough.  I have no idea why there was less oil in that pan after the bake.

I wanted to add that the high amount of Mexican manteca added to the steel pans, really gave the crust a good taste, at least to my taste testers and me. 

I also wanted to add what dressing I used on the pizza made in the square steel pan.  The dressings where, my regular tomato sauce, spinach, Salami, Capicolla ham, sharp white cheddar, two kinds of mozzarella, 3 grated chesses, Feta, and Gorgonzola cheese.  I guess all those cheeses also gave the pie the good taste it had.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #936 on: September 07, 2011, 10:28:40 PM »
It is a wonder that my combined dough balls relaxed and were useable.  Do you have any explanation on how the combined doughs, then made into dough balls, could have aligned the gluten okay to be able to be used?

Norma,

That might be a question to pose to Tom Lehmann. Rest almost always helps gluten to relax, and maybe the protease enzymes softened the gluten to the point where the dough became softer and easier to handle.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #937 on: September 07, 2011, 10:44:08 PM »
Norma,

That might be a question to pose to Tom Lehmann. Rest almost always helps gluten to relax, and maybe the protease enzymes softened the gluten to the point where the dough became softer and easier to handle.

Peter

Peter,

I will pose the question to Tom Lehmann.  Your explanation also makes sense.  Thanks!

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #938 on: September 08, 2011, 06:18:58 PM »
It sure stormed and rained in our area a lot in the last few days.  The creeks looks like rivers.  There was damage to my roof where the deck oven vents.  Now it is time to get it fixed.  The area around the vent was really leaking on Tuesday.  Rivers is our area are also flooding many homes.  Many small towns that have creeks, you canít even get into.  Many roads are also closed.

This is a video I took near where I live, that shows how a small creek, almost looks and sounds like a river. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAEzdeE0pV8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAEzdeE0pV8</a>


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #939 on: September 09, 2011, 09:31:43 PM »
This pizza was made and baked from my mixed-up commingled dough ball (regular Lehmann and Preferment Lehmann) that I froze Tuesday night.  It was dressed with my same tomato sauce and blend of mozzarellas from market.  The finished pie sure turned out different than the pie that I baked in my deck oven at Reply 929 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg152245.html#msg152245

I find it fascinating how different the same dough can bake in a different oven.   

Norma   
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