Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 156036 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #925 on: September 06, 2011, 09:53:31 PM »
I found out the preferment Lehmann dough and the regular Lehmann dough can be mixed, and the gluten must have arranged itself okay, because the dough balls sure felt different today, and they could be opened.  I used the dough balls for cheesy breadsticks, Greek style pizza, Calzones, other items, and some regular pizzas.  I really didnít think the dough balls would be useable today, but they were.  Dough still never ceases to amaze me.  I donít know how the tangled mess rearranged itself.  

For the Greek pizza I greased the steel pan with 3 tablespoons of manteca to see what would happen.  That is a lot of manteca in my opinion, but I wanted to see if the bottom crust would brown better, and also have more crunch.  

First set of pictures were the cheesy breadsticks.  Second set of pictures were the Greek pizza.  Third set of pictures are the one regular pizza.  I didnít take any pictures of the other products, or the other pizzas.

Norma
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:02:25 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #926 on: September 06, 2011, 09:56:10 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #927 on: September 06, 2011, 09:58:14 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #928 on: September 06, 2011, 10:00:08 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #929 on: September 06, 2011, 10:00:58 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #930 on: September 06, 2011, 10:32:23 PM »
I decided to use a preferment Lehmann dough ball I had made yesterday, (not the regular Lehmann and preferment Lehmann dough mixed) and bake it in my square steel pan with manteca as the oil.  I also use 3 tablespoons of manteca to oil the square steel pan.  We thought this pizza was very tasty.  As can be seen on the steel pan after the bake, there was a lot of manteca left that wasnít soaked up by the bottom crust.  I didnít use a paper towel to oil this time, but used the rubber spatula I had posted in my last post. 
 
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #931 on: September 06, 2011, 10:34:04 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #932 on: September 06, 2011, 10:35:34 PM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #933 on: September 06, 2011, 10:39:22 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #934 on: September 07, 2011, 09:50:02 AM »
Norma,

I wondered how the mixed dough balls would work, especially since I recalled that Tom Lehmann had discussed how to combine different size dough balls to form a single dough ball. I hunted down the thread where he discusses this matter, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=44360#44360.

BTW, how did the pizzas made from the commingled doughs taste and did the larger amount of Mexican manteca that you used produce the desired degree of bottom crust crispiness that you were hoping for?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #935 on: September 07, 2011, 11:37:40 AM »
Norma,

I wondered how the mixed dough balls would work, especially since I recalled that Tom Lehmann had discussed how to combine different size dough balls to form a single dough ball. I hunted down the thread where he discusses this matter, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=44360#44360.

BTW, how did the pizzas made from the commingled doughs taste and did the larger amount of Mexican manteca that you used produce the desired degree of bottom crust crispiness that you were hoping for?

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for hunting down the link to what Tom Lehmann replied about putting dough balls together.  I never saw that reply from Tom before. I sure didnít go by Tomís method. 

It is a wonder that my combined dough balls relaxed and were useable.  Do you have any explanation on how the combined doughs, then made into dough balls, could have aligned the gluten okay to be able to be used?  I know I did everything wrong with those dough balls, and how they were combined into one dough.  I never felt such a tight dough before.  I donít know, but it almost felt like some doughs I had made before than had too many stretch and folds and then became to hard to open.  Now I think about it, I guess those dough balls that I gave too many stretch and folds or reballs, might have been easier to use if left them to ferment longer.  I am not sure of that though.

To answer you question about how the commingled baked products from those dough balls tasted, I thought they tasted better than my regular preferment Lehmann dough or regular Lehmann dough products.  I did save 1 dough ball and froze it again last night to see what happens to it next week.  I guess I am pressing my luck, but wanted to see if somehow that dough ball is still useable.

To answer your other question about how the large amount of manteca gave the right amount of crispness, I would say it did, but would think from the amount of manteca left on the pan, I wouldnít need to add as much the next time.  I will have to experiment more with the amount of manteca to add to a pan.  I didnít take a picture of the round steel Greek pizza pan after it baked, but there was less oil left in that pan.  That dough was from the commingled dough.  I have no idea why there was less oil in that pan after the bake.

I wanted to add that the high amount of Mexican manteca added to the steel pans, really gave the crust a good taste, at least to my taste testers and me. 

I also wanted to add what dressing I used on the pizza made in the square steel pan.  The dressings where, my regular tomato sauce, spinach, Salami, Capicolla ham, sharp white cheddar, two kinds of mozzarella, 3 grated chesses, Feta, and Gorgonzola cheese.  I guess all those cheeses also gave the pie the good taste it had.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #936 on: September 07, 2011, 10:28:40 PM »
It is a wonder that my combined dough balls relaxed and were useable.  Do you have any explanation on how the combined doughs, then made into dough balls, could have aligned the gluten okay to be able to be used?

Norma,

That might be a question to pose to Tom Lehmann. Rest almost always helps gluten to relax, and maybe the protease enzymes softened the gluten to the point where the dough became softer and easier to handle.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #937 on: September 07, 2011, 10:44:08 PM »
Norma,

That might be a question to pose to Tom Lehmann. Rest almost always helps gluten to relax, and maybe the protease enzymes softened the gluten to the point where the dough became softer and easier to handle.

Peter

Peter,

I will pose the question to Tom Lehmann.  Your explanation also makes sense.  Thanks!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #938 on: September 08, 2011, 06:18:58 PM »
It sure stormed and rained in our area a lot in the last few days.  The creeks looks like rivers.  There was damage to my roof where the deck oven vents.  Now it is time to get it fixed.  The area around the vent was really leaking on Tuesday.  Rivers is our area are also flooding many homes.  Many small towns that have creeks, you canít even get into.  Many roads are also closed.

This is a video I took near where I live, that shows how a small creek, almost looks and sounds like a river. 



Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #939 on: September 09, 2011, 09:31:43 PM »
This pizza was made and baked from my mixed-up commingled dough ball (regular Lehmann and Preferment Lehmann) that I froze Tuesday night.  It was dressed with my same tomato sauce and blend of mozzarellas from market.  The finished pie sure turned out different than the pie that I baked in my deck oven at Reply 929 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg152245.html#msg152245

I find it fascinating how different the same dough can bake in a different oven.   

Norma   
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #940 on: September 09, 2011, 09:37:38 PM »
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #941 on: September 09, 2011, 09:56:33 PM »
I also made a SíMores pizza tonight with a frozen preferment Lehmann dough ball.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #942 on: September 09, 2011, 09:59:55 PM »
Norma,

Was the commingled dough pizza baked in Steve's oven?

BTW, did you notice that you passed the basic Lehmann NY style dough thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.0.html in terms of number of posts (replies) and total pages?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #943 on: September 09, 2011, 11:02:27 PM »
Norma,

Was the commingled dough pizza baked in Steve's oven?

BTW, did you notice that you passed the basic Lehmann NY style dough thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.0.html in terms of number of posts (replies) and total pages?

Peter

Peter,

Yes, the commingled dough pizza was baked in Steveís WFO.  The pizza sure tasted different than the pizza I had made at market, even with using the exact same dough, sauce and mozzarellas.  That just goes to show what a difference a WFO can make. 

When it was time to make the SíMores pizza it was slightly drizzling, getting dark, and the dough, peel, and everything was getting wet.  I would have thought the SíMores dough would have puffed up more when it was in the oven, but it didnít.  We kinda pre-baked the skin.  Until we got all the toppings together the crust was almost wet.  I would think if we had made the preferment Lehmann dough into a regular pizza there would have been spotting on the rim too, but I donít know.  At least everyone like the SíMores pizza.  I really enjoy baking and tasting a pie make in a WFO, thanks to Steve. 

To answer your question about me seeing that the number of posts and pages has surpassed the basic Lehmann NY style thread, I didnít notice that.  You sure set-forth a great formula for market and me.

Thanks so much!    :chef:  ;D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #944 on: September 09, 2011, 11:10:12 PM »
Peter,

I forgot to mention in my last post a friend of Steve's was also at his home tonight and bought some of his doughs.  They were low hydration doughs and he rolled then out, then first baked the skin on one side, brought it out of the oven, then topped the baked side and it went back into the oven again.  Those pies tasted just like I would like a cracker-style pie to taste.  They were crispy, thin, and delicious.  I know this post is off-topic, but it did happen tonight.

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #945 on: September 09, 2011, 11:19:31 PM »
Norma,

That's one hell of a pillowy crust in those cheese pie pics! One could sleep on that pizza  ;D

Btw, if your thread also exceeds the number of views of the Lehmann dough thread, I'll open a bottle of Veuve Clicquot in your honor.

Mike

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #946 on: September 09, 2011, 11:36:41 PM »
Norma,

That's one hell of a pillowy crust in those cheese pie pics! One could sleep on that pizza  ;D

Btw, if your thread also exceeds the number of views of the Lehmann dough thread, I'll open a bottle of Veuve Clicquot in your honor.



Mike,

That puffy crust from the commingled dough, shows what a WFO can do that a deck oven canít.  :-D

I know my thread will never exceed the number of views the basic Lehmann thread has, but I appreciate you would be willing to open a bottle of Veuve Clicquot in my honor.  :) I never even tasted decent wine. 

Norma
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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #947 on: September 10, 2011, 09:32:56 AM »
Btw, if your thread also exceeds the number of views of the Lehmann dough thread, I'll open a bottle of Veuve Clicquot in your honor.

Mike,

It is highly unlikely that the Lehmann thread will be overtaken in page views anytime soon, for several reasons. First, the Lehmann thread has become an iconic thread, dating back many years to September, 2004, and is for a style of pizza--the NY style--that is the most popular pizza style on the forum. There are also many members who have their notification settings set such that they are notified of any new posts on the thread. But, even apart from that, the Lehmann thread racks up page views at a very fast rate. For example, since January of this year, when the Lehmann thread crossed the quarter million page view mark, there has been an increase of over 42,000 page views with only 25 new posts. I think the reason for this is that the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation is a simple one and can be practiced by just about anyone in a home setting with basic equipment and a standard unmodified home oven.

Also, there are a lot of versions of the Lehmann NY style recipe in the Lehmann thread and they are set forth in a lot of detail. From what I can see, especially from my perch as a Moderator, people love recipe threads, especially those where the recipes are self-contained and do not require them to read pages of posts to come up with recipes. I believe that there is a large, silent majority of people out there all around the world who do not register and do not post, but are quietly lurking and scouring the forum for recipes. Many of these people have joined the forum recently because they have to in order to be able to conduct searches (most likely for recipes). Otherwise, there would have been no need to join.

What Norma has done with the preferment Lehmann dough recipe is noteworthy in that it is adapted to her unique situation where everything has to be done at market in accordance with the rules set forth by the people who run the market, and the pizzas that Norma makes are baked on only one dayóTuesday. And she has done it using a more complicated recipe when she could have just used the basic Lehmann NY style dough recipe and rested. She has also taken the recipe to a new level by creating many new and inventive incarnations and uses for the recipe. In so doing, she has been gracious and generous enough to share what she has done with the forum and in a commmercial setting that most of us do not have an opportunity to experience. I think what she has done already merits celebration, including hoisting a few glasses from the Veuve Cliquot.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #948 on: September 10, 2011, 12:31:08 PM »
Peter,

I hear you. I wasn't trying to imply that Norma's work isn't noteworthy or valuable to this forum. Au contraire.

It is and I'm sure many have learned from her, including me when it came to comparing pizzas made in a home oven and in her commercial setting with great success albeit the belly flop I just experienced yesterday with one of the Luigi clones. The reason I mentioned Veuve Clicquot was to indicate that her thread, even if it won't surpass the Lehmann thread in views, which is a tough record to break, is just as substantial and respected than a great bottle of champagne.

Mike

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #949 on: September 10, 2011, 01:51:54 PM »
Mike and Peter,

Thanks for the kind words!  :) I have enjoyed this journey with the preferment Lehmann dough, as I have posted before.  Wish I could taste that fine wine now.  :-D

Norma
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