Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 162442 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #975 on: October 14, 2011, 09:26:53 PM »
Norma,

This thread's been a great read and I now have a preferment in the fridge based on the %'s Pete and you came up with at reply#149.  Planning on 3 days in fridge then mix with remaining components and back to the fridge for at least 24hrs.  Will let you know how it turns out.

The main problem i'm having with my doughs (Lehmann w/o preferement) is the dreaded gum line.  I have tried topping with oil just before baking, but the gum line remains (i may have over oiled the dough).  I'm cooking in electric oven with corderiette(?) stone on bottom shelf at 550 degrees for about 5 1/2 minutes, then 1 minute under broiler.

If you get a chance on the next pizza you make (one that your not trying to sell) could you take a picture of a slice with the cheese lifted?  I'd like to see what the top of your dough looks like.  This request also goes out to Pete and any others willing to share photos.

Thanks.  Danes Dad

Danes Dad,

Thanks for saying this thread has been a great read.  It is really a long thread, but does contain a lot of interesting information. Peter is the one that came up with this formula, so it would fit into the times I could be at market.  You can watch your preferment to see how it ferments.  I donít know what temperature your home refrigerator is.  At market I have to keep my deli case at lower temperatures, because I am a food approved business.  If your refrigerator is warmer, you preferment might develop faster.  I never oil my dough for the NY style, but do oil (with herb infused garlic olive oil) the dough sometimes when I am making a Greek style pizza.  I have also used the preferment Lehmann dough at home to make pizzas and never got a gum line.  I will take a picture of a slice with the cheese lifted on Tuesday and post it.

Best of luck with your pizzas!  :) Let me know if you have any other questions.  I will be interested how your dough and pizza turns out.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #976 on: October 19, 2011, 06:37:02 AM »
Danes Dad,

These are the pictures you asked me to take.  The preferment Lehmann dough pizza I took the pictures of was just taken out of the oven. I pushed the cheese aside and it looks like a gum line, but really isnít.  That is just the way a pizza looks when the cheese and sauce are pushed aside when the pizza is still hot.  The other two pictures are the crumb and bottom crust of the same pizza.  

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #977 on: October 19, 2011, 06:37:37 AM »
Norma

Offline Danes Dad

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #978 on: October 19, 2011, 09:52:40 PM »
Thanks Norma,

Great looking pies as always.

Danes Dad

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #979 on: October 22, 2011, 03:29:18 PM »
Thanks Norma,

Great looking pies as always.

Danes Dad

Danes Dad,

Thanks for the kind words about my market pies!  :)  I hope you will report back on how the preferment Lehmann dough performed for you.

Norma

Offline Danes Dad

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #980 on: October 25, 2011, 12:42:47 AM »
Norma,

preferment worked out great.  Attached are photos of the latest attempt, bacon, carmelized onions and potato.  Thanks again.

Danes Dad

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #981 on: October 25, 2011, 05:55:26 AM »
Norma,

preferment worked out great.  Attached are photos of the latest attempt, bacon, carmelized onions and potato.  Thanks again.

Danes Dad

Danes Dad,

Wow, your latest attempt with bacon, caramelized onion, and potato really look delicious!  :) Those combination of dressings sound good. Glad to hear the preferment worked well for you.  That is a great looking crumb on your pie.  What temperature did you bake at and what was your oven configuration?  The thanks should go to Peter.  He is the person that figured out the formula for the preferment Lehmann dough.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #982 on: October 25, 2011, 11:03:37 PM »
Thanks Norma,
The oven is 550.  Stone is on 2nd from bottom shelf.  Crust is parbaked for 4min on stone.  Then brought out to cool and put back in for 3min (1.5 min on stone then 1.5 min under broiler.  Parbaking has been the only way I can get the crust fully cooked w/o burning toppings and rim.

The preferment was mixed and left at room temp (80 degrees) 7hrs then added to final dough.  I could not get the preferment calculator to give breakdown for yeast in preferment so I used .7% (.62grams)of water weight for the preferment and used remaining amount (.75grams) in final dough.  Dough ball was put in fridge Friday about midnight and pizza was made on Monday evening, probably a day or so too long.  The pizza was very good, but I can't say it was noticeably better than a straight Lehmann dough left in fridge for 3-4 days.  I need to do a side by side comparison, same night and see if I can tell difference.


Total Formula:
Flour (100%):    341.53 g  |  12.05 oz | 0.75 lbs
Water (65%):    221.99 g  |  7.83 oz | 0.49 lbs
Salt (1.5%):    5.12 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
IDY (.4%):    1.37 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Total (166.9%):   570.01 g | 20.11 oz | 1.26 lbs | TF = 0.1

Preferment:
Flour:    88.8 g | 3.13 oz | 0.2 lbs
Water:    88.8 g | 3.13 oz | 0.2 lbs
Total:    177.59 g | 6.26 oz | 0.39 lbs

Final Dough:
Flour:    252.73 g | 8.91 oz | 0.56 lbs
Water:    133.2 g | 4.7 oz | 0.29 lbs
Salt:    5.12 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
IDY:    1.37 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Preferment:    177.59 g | 6.26 oz | 0.39 lbs
Total:    570.01 g | 20.11 oz | 1.26 lbs  | TF = 0.1

FYI, just picked up a infrared thermometer, from Harbor Freight, $29.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=4F780F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA

Danes Dad
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 11:44:05 PM by Danes Dad »

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #983 on: October 28, 2011, 09:18:44 PM »
Thanks Norma,
The oven is 550.  Stone is on 2nd from bottom shelf.  Crust is parbaked for 4min on stone.  Then brought out to cool and put back in for 3min (1.5 min on stone then 1.5 min under broiler.  Parbaking has been the only way I can get the crust fully cooked w/o burning toppings and rim.

The preferment was mixed and left at room temp (80 degrees) 7hrs then added to final dough.  I could not get the preferment calculator to give breakdown for yeast in preferment so I used .7% (.62grams)of water weight for the preferment and used remaining amount (.75grams) in final dough.  Dough ball was put in fridge Friday about midnight and pizza was made on Monday evening, probably a day or so too long.  The pizza was very good, but I can't say it was noticeably better than a straight Lehmann dough left in fridge for 3-4 days.  I need to do a side by side comparison, same night and see if I can tell difference.


Total Formula:
Flour (100%):    341.53 g  |  12.05 oz | 0.75 lbs
Water (65%):    221.99 g  |  7.83 oz | 0.49 lbs
Salt (1.5%):    5.12 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
IDY (.4%):    1.37 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Total (166.9%):   570.01 g | 20.11 oz | 1.26 lbs | TF = 0.1

Preferment:
Flour:    88.8 g | 3.13 oz | 0.2 lbs
Water:    88.8 g | 3.13 oz | 0.2 lbs
Total:    177.59 g | 6.26 oz | 0.39 lbs

Final Dough:
Flour:    252.73 g | 8.91 oz | 0.56 lbs
Water:    133.2 g | 4.7 oz | 0.29 lbs
Salt:    5.12 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
IDY:    1.37 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Preferment:    177.59 g | 6.26 oz | 0.39 lbs
Total:    570.01 g | 20.11 oz | 1.26 lbs  | TF = 0.1

FYI, just picked up a infrared thermometer, from Harbor Freight, $29.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.html?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase&hft_adv=40010&mr:trackingCode=4F780F9E-782A-E011-B31E-001B2163195C&mr:referralID=NA

Danes Dad

Danes Dad,

Interesting how you broke down the preferment for the amount of yeast, since the preferment dough calculating tool  couldnít do that for the amount of yeast.  Would like to see your comparison of how a 3-4 days straight Lehmann dough in a side by side comparison with the preferment Lehmann dough, if you have time to do that experiment some day.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #984 on: October 28, 2011, 09:27:09 PM »
This post and pictures are to show how I only mix the preferment part of the Lehmann dough now, until it looks rather lumpy, and I think all the ingredients are incorporated enough.  This mixing is just done with a big spatula. The preferment is then put into the Hatco unit for 25-30 minutes at 110 degrees F, then put right into the deli case until Monday.  These two batches of preferments were mixed today. The one batch is for 30 lbs. of dough, and the other preferment is for 10 lbs. of dough.  On Monday they will be all bubbly like I have posted pictures before in this thread. Hopefully, I will remember to take some pictures of the 2 preferments on Monday again to show how the preferment becomes bubbly with only using a minimum mix, until the preferment looks rather lumpy.  I have been using this method for about 3 months and it works well for me.  At least this method hasnít failed me yet.  It is a lot easier to just mix the preferment until the lumpy stage and takes me less time.  It still is amazing to me how yeast can do its job with flour and water to become a live living thing.

The pictures are in order of mixing to lumpy stage, then after the preferments are in the Hatco unit of both preferments top and side pictures to see how much they both bubble.  They donít bubble very much before they are put into the deli case until Monday.

It has become a lot cooler in our area, and it is supposed to snow a lot tomorrow.  Hopefully it doesn't snow as much as the weathermen are calling for.  The weathermen are saying we could have downed power lines and tree limbs.  

Norma
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 09:32:09 PM by norma427 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #985 on: October 28, 2011, 09:28:13 PM »
Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #986 on: October 28, 2011, 09:29:21 PM »
Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #987 on: October 31, 2011, 06:36:17 PM »
This is how the 2 preferments looked today, after being in the deli case since Friday.  I was lucky, and guess my deli case does hold the cold well if the doors arenít opened.  I was told by the maintenance man today that the power was off (from the snow storm in our area) from Saturday afternoon, until 4 am this morning.  :o Luckily the 2 preferments survived.  ;D They both look the same as they usually do on a Monday. 

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #988 on: October 31, 2011, 06:37:29 PM »
Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #989 on: November 02, 2011, 08:46:33 AM »
I did the same experiment I did last week, again this week, to see how a preferment Lehmann dough bakes at a lower temperature in the deck oven.  As can be seen the baking temperature on the stone was 453 degrees F, right before I slid the pie into the deck oven.  My dough ball wasnít warmed-up enough either, as can be seen how it wanted to bubble in the middle in the picture.  I used my bubble popper to deflate those bubbles.  I know a deck ovens bakes differently than home ovens, but just wanted to show that a deck oven can bake the preferment Lehmann dough into pizzas at a lower bake temperature.  The bottom crust even gets brown. 

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #990 on: November 02, 2011, 08:47:18 AM »
Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #991 on: November 02, 2011, 08:48:10 AM »
Norma


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #992 on: November 02, 2011, 02:04:00 PM »
That looks great! The bubbly pizza reminds me of when I use 100% Bouncer flour.It makes alot of bubbles like that!
 8)

Btw,I have never seen a pizza cooked at such extreme cold temps before. -450 F Below? WOW!
 ;D

I have the same IR gun.Is that - stuck on the screen all the time?It comes on mine as soon as I pull the trigger but it goes away as the screen lights up.

-Bill

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #993 on: November 02, 2011, 04:28:35 PM »
That looks great! The bubbly pizza reminds me of when I use 100% Bouncer flour.It makes alot of bubbles like that!
 8)

Btw,I have never seen a pizza cooked at such extreme cold temps before. -450 F Below? WOW!
 ;D

I have the same IR gun.Is that - stuck on the screen all the time?It comes on mine as soon as I pull the trigger but it goes away as the screen lights up.



Bill,

Thanks!  I never tried 100% Bouncer flour before, but am glad your Bouncer flour produces lots of bubbles.   :)

I think it is possible for a pizza to bake in a deck oven at lower temperatures because there is so much mass from the stone, and the low head space.  At the end of last evening, after I had turned off the oven, 2 customers came and wanted whole pizzas.  I thought O NO, I donít want to light that oven again, and go outside and turn the gas valve on again.  :-D I had even put my extra sauce and cheese away. I have made pizzas after my oven was turned off many times, when last minute customers show up. I usually tell them my oven is turned off, and the bake of the pizza will take longer. At least those customers do come back, so the pizzas must be okay. I never took the temperatures on what the deck oven was, because usually I am in a hurry to clean up all the stuff that needs to be cleaned up. I would think the temperature would be lower than that first pie I put in, because the oven door needs to be open and shut to be able to check on the pie.  I was sweating the last pizza, but it did turn out okay.  It was a longer bake though. Someday, if I am not in a hurry to leave market, and bake a pie after the oven is turned off, I will take the temperature on the stone.  

Good to hear you have the same IR gun.  It was cheap, but works well for me.

Norma

Offline fazzari

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #994 on: November 03, 2011, 01:57:48 AM »
I did the same experiment I did last week, again this week, to see how a preferment Lehmann dough bakes at a lower temperature in the deck oven.  As can be seen the baking temperature on the stone was 453 degrees F, right before I slid the pie into the deck oven.  My dough ball wasnít warmed-up enough either, as can be seen how it wanted to bubble in the middle in the picture.  I used my bubble popper to deflate those bubbles.  I know a deck ovens bakes differently than home ovens, but just wanted to show that a deck oven can bake the preferment Lehmann dough into pizzas at a lower bake temperature.  The bottom crust even gets brown. 

Norma

Norma
I love the look of that pizza....it's just a picture though......can you describe it in comparison to the ones you bake at hotter temps...likes , dislikes......like I said, I think it looks fabulous

John

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #995 on: November 03, 2011, 08:59:29 AM »
Norma
I love the look of that pizza....it's just a picture though......can you describe it in comparison to the ones you bake at hotter temps...likes , dislikes......like I said, I think it looks fabulous

John

John,

Thanks for your kind comments about the pizza that was baked at a lower temperature.  :) I know it is only pictures of a lower temp baked pizza, but to me, it baked in the same way all my preferment Lehmann pizzas bake.  The baked time was probably only a little longer.  I really didnít time the bake.  The bottom crust bakes the same way at a higher temperature.  I have tried all kinds of bake temperatures, and I am now baking my preferment Lehmann dough pizzas at about 525 degrees F.  I did try to bake at higher temperatures for awhile, but my bottom crust got too much char.  Since my small pizza stand isnít anything like higher end pizza businesses, my customers only want a bottom crust that is brown, not with any char.  When I did bake at higher temperature I couldnít taste the char, but it was there.  To customers they thought it was burnt on the bottom.  That is why I went to lower bake temperatures.  Someday, I will take a video of a preferment Lehmann dough pizza being cut into slices, so if anyone is interested in what the pizza sounds like when it is sliced, they can hear what it sounds like.

If there is something else you wanted to know about the pizza that was baked at a lower temperature, or my pies baked at the regular temperature, just let me know.  I will try to explain.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #996 on: November 03, 2011, 09:48:21 AM »
I just wanted to add a post, and some pictures of how the Greek pizzas are turning out with the preferment Lehmann dough.  My Greek pizzas from the preferment Lehmann dough are more like a Sicilian pizza, (because they are thicker than a regular Greek pizza), but I still call them Greek pizzas.  I have started to grease the steel pan with corn oil to develop more of a crunch on the bottom crust, and so far that has worked well.  I use a fairly high amount of oil to grease the steel pan, so the bottom crust almost fries.  After the bake there is still a lot of corn oil in the steel pan. 

I had a new customer that commented on how good this Greek pizza looked on Tuesday.  She decided to try a slice, and walked about with it.  After a little while she came back and said that the Greek pizza was the best pizza she had ever eaten, and she said she had tasted many pizzas.  She asked me if I had a regular pizza business anywhere, and I said no, I just operated this small pizza stand.  She bought the rest of the pizza, and also bought some regular slices of my NY style pizzas for her husband that doesnĎt like thick pizzas.  The lady asked for my cell number, and my home phone number, and said she is going to be ordering whole Greek pizzas the day before she comes to market, so they are ready when she is finished shopping at market. 

We also made a Greek pizza with Alfredo sauce with minced garlic in the sauce with fresh vegetables, and also another kind of Greek pizza with different dressings.  The Greek style pizzas are starting to get some more attention.  I need to soon give some small slices for samples, to see if potential customers might like Greek pizzas from the preferment Lehmann dough.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #997 on: November 03, 2011, 09:48:57 AM »
Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #998 on: November 03, 2011, 07:06:45 PM »
Norma that Greek pie is just beautiful looking.
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #999 on: November 03, 2011, 08:29:01 PM »
Norma that Greek pie is just beautiful looking.

Jimmy,

Thanks for your kind comment!  :)  The preferment Lehmann dough can make so many different products, including a Greek pizza.  It is really easy to make a Greek Pizza with this dough.  I should scale the dough down each time, but I also like Sicilian pizzas, so this almost combines the two styles of pizzas.  The crumb part really is nice and light when eaten.  I think I like Greek pizzas better than NY style pizzas now.  Don't tell anyone that though!   :-D  I wouldn't want that getting around.  Steve, Randy, and I each shared one slice of two of the pizzas.  For the first one I posted the pictures of, I did cut off a small piece for me to try.  That was early in the morning.  Never to early for me to try a little Greek pizza.  :)

Norma


 

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