Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 159329 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #250 on: February 21, 2010, 07:08:43 PM »
rest of pictures

Norma


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #251 on: February 22, 2010, 01:02:19 PM »
Norma,

How old was the dough ball that you used with your deep dish pan? About six days??

The Lehmann NY style dough formulation is actually quite versatile and can be modified for other types of pizzas. For example, I once modified the Lehmann recipe just slightly to make a Greek/pub style pizza. If you use a greater thickness factor along the lines of a standard Sicilian style pizza, maybe something in the range of 0.125-0.14, you might be able to come up with a pretty good Sicilian style pizza. Of course, that would mean having to re-do the numbers. Or you can use the same dough formulation as you have been using but just calculate the amount of dough to fit your 12" deep-dish pan and carve that amount out of your total dough batch. Obviously, you have better control of batch size by re-doing the numbers to fit your precise application.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #252 on: February 22, 2010, 03:48:15 PM »
Norma,

I have set forth below the dough formulation I used recently to make a poolish-based Lehmann dough formulation with the diastatic malt. This is the formulation on which I commented earlier at Replies 229, 231 and 237, starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90277.html#msg90277.

Normally, I don’t change more than one variable at a time. However, on occasion I will do so either for fun or to test my analytical skills. For the latest experiment, I was trying to test several things. First, I wanted to try a “cool” poolish that prefermented at the room temperature then prevailing in my kitchen (around 65 degrees F). That meant not using any temperature control, as one might get from using a proofing box or a unit such as the ThermoKool MR-132. Second, I wanted to subject as much of the flour as possible to the prefermentation process while keeping the hydration of the preferment at 100%. So, for this particular test, I used all of the formula water and an equal weight of flour. Third, I wanted to try using some diastatic malt. I intentionally used more diastatic malt than normally recommended to test what might be a suitable outer limit of use for that ingredient. In my case, I used 1.30% of the total formula flour. Finally, I used a blend of King Arthur bread flour and vital wheat gluten (Hogsdon Mill brand) to achieve a total protein content equal to that of a high-gluten flour. I used the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to do the apportionment between the KABF and the VWG.

The dough formulation I ended up with, for a single 14” pizza and using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, is as follows:

Total Lehmann NY Style Dough Formulation
KABF/VWG Flour Blend* (100%):
Water (61%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Diastatic Malt Powder** (1.30%):
Total (165.45%):
236.76 g  |  8.35 oz | 0.52 lbs
144.43 g  |  5.09 oz | 0.32 lbs
0.95 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.31 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
4.14 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.74 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
2.37 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
3.08 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.25 tsp | 0.42 tbsp
391.73 g | 13.82 oz | 0.86 lbs | TF = 0.08976
* The KABF/VWG Flour Blend comprises 230.17 grams (8.12 oz.) KABF and 6.59 grams (0.23 oz.) Hodgson Mill VWG (approx. 2 Ľ t.)
** Diastatic malt volume measurements increased by ten times the dough calculating tool values (to correct for an error in the tool)
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.088; dough is for a single 14” pizza; bowl residue compensation = 2%

Preferment (Poolish)
KABF/VWG Flour Blend (100%):
Water (100%):
IDY (0.30%):
Total (200.3%):
144.3 g  |  5.09 oz | 0.32 lbs
144.3 g  |  5.09 oz | 0.32 lbs
0.43 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.14 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
289.04 g | 10.2 oz | 0.64 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Poolish represents about 73.8% of the total dough weight and utilizes all of the total formula water; 0.14 t. IDY is 1/8 t. + a bit more than 1/64 t. (the “pinch” mini-measuring spoon)

Final Mix
Poolish (from above):                                       289.04 g | 10.2 oz | 0.64 lbs
Remaining KABF/VWG Flour Blend (100%):
Remaining IDY (0.45184%):
Total Formula Salt (4.60122%):
Total Formula Olive Oil (2.45398%):
Total Formula Diastatic Malt Powder (3.37423%):
92.42 g  |  3.26 oz | 0.2 lbs
0.42 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.14 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
4.25 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.76 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
2.27 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
3.12 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.25 tsp | 0.42 tbsp
Total Dough Batch Weight:                               391.73 g | 13.82 oz | 0.86 lbs
Note: 0.14 t. IDY is 1/8 t. + a bit more than 1/64 t.

I prepared the poolish preferment in a bowl using a sturdy wooden spoon. In preparing the poolish preferment, I used water at a room temperature of around 105 degrees F. The finished poolish temperature was 82.4 degrees F. The poolish prefermented at a room temperature of around 65 degrees F for about 4 hours. As previously noted in an earlier post in this thread, there was little noticeable bubbling. By the time the poolish was placed into the refrigerator, the poolish temperature had dropped from 82.4 degrees F to about 66.9 degrees F. The poolish remained in the refrigerator for 71 hours, or one hour shy of three days. For that one hour, I let the poolish warm up at a room temperature of 66 degrees F. I then completed the Final Mix by combining the poolish with the remaining flour, the remaining IDY, and the total formula salt, oil and diastatic malt. I used the flat beater attachment of my basic KitchenAid stand mixer, at stir speed, to bring the ingredients together initially, for about a minute or two, and then switched to the C-hook for a knead, at speed 2, for about 5 minutes. I placed two poppy seeds on the dough ball, which I had lightly oiled, and placed the dough in the refrigerator. The poppy seed method is described at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6914.0.html.

The dough remained in the refrigerator for about 47 hours. At that point, the increased spacing of the poppy seeds suggested a doubling of the dough, but the dough was still firm to the touch and looked like it could have gone a few days more, possibly even several days more. After a roughly two-hour warm-up at a room temperature of about 65 degrees F, I opened up the dough ball to form a 14” skin. The dough exhibited some elasticity but the skin was very robust without any tendency to form thin spots or webbing. With periodic rests of 30 seconds or so, I was able to form the skin to 14” with little difficulty. Clearly, the large quantity of poolish relative to the total dough weight (about 73.8%) contributed significantly to the strength of the dough. This leads me to believe that using a smaller quantity of poolish is perhaps a better approach to achieve a better balance between elasticity and extensibility. Extending the fermentation time might also help in achieving this outcome. After dressing the skin in a basic pepperoni style, I baked the pizza on a pizza stone that had been placed on the lowest oven rack position and preheated for about an hour at around 525 degrees F. The total bake time was around 7-8 minutes.

The photos below show the finished pizza. As noted previously in an earlier post in this thread, the crust flavor was good but not great. That leads me to believe that a “cool” poolish is not the optimum method for achieving the best crust flavors. The finished crust and crumb also had doughy or “gummy” sections. That did not detract from the eating experience but, at 1.30% diastatic malt, one might reasonably expect that result since that is a well-known outcome when using high levels of that ingredient. In my case, especially with the cool poolish approach and with the small amount of IDY, followed by further cold fermentation, it is possible that no diastatic malt was needed. As noted earlier in this thread, the crust color was more golden than anything else, with a bread-like appearance.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #253 on: February 22, 2010, 03:51:23 PM »
A couple more photos....

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #254 on: February 22, 2010, 05:31:09 PM »
Peter,

The dough ball I used in reply 249 & 250 was six days old.  I can now see how versatile the dough with the preferment is after trying this recent pie in the deep-dish pan.  I don’t know if the longer fermentation time had anything to do with the taste, but I really enjoyed this pie.  The crust in my opinion was easy to chew, lighter, how more crust flavor, and was more enjoyable than the other Sicilian pies I had made with or without the natural starters.  I will have to try the dough at market and see if that oven bakes this dough the same in a Sicilian Pie.  I do want to be able to sell some kind of Sicilian Pie at market at some point.  Hopefully this works out at market. 

Was your Greek/pub style pizza a Sicilian pizza?  If so, how did you think the Lehmann dough worked out for use in this style of pizza?

The dough formulation for the poolish-based Lehmann dough you tried sure sounds complicated to be able to figure out.  If anyone wants to try out your formula, you surely set-forth  good directions.  It sure would be great to have your analytical skills in trying out new ideas.

It is interesting to hear you thought by using a smaller quantity of poolish is perhaps a better approach to achieve a better balance between elasticity and extensibility.  I also wonder about longer fermentation times after letting this recent dough ball ferment for longer.  I didn’t expect this recent dough ball to last that long before starting to overferment.

When you are talking about probably not needing the diastatic malt because of the cool poolish approach and with the small amount of IDY, followed by the cold fermentation, I just wanted to let you know I did add the diastatic malt today for the 5 test dough balls.  I will see what kind of results there are tomorrow.

If you now think a cool poolish doesn’t help you to achieve the best crust flavors, what do you have in mind to try next?

The pictures of your pizza look very tasty.  :)  Good to hear how you went about you most recent experiment.

Thanks for going over your experiment and also in helping with this preferment for the Lehmann dough,

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #255 on: February 22, 2010, 06:30:25 PM »
Norma,

There is no reason why a poolish-based dough can't have a long useful life. One of our members, MWTC, described poolish-based doughs/pizzas at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4625.0.html and was able to achieve dough lives of 12 days or more, so, I knew that long dough lives were possible using a poolish-based dough. What was less certain is whether such a method might be scaled up to commercial dough batch sizes. That might also be an issue for you once you decide to scale up your five dough ball formulation to a much larger dough batch size.

The Greek/pub style pizza that I made using a modified Lehmann NY style dough formulation is described at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg27482.html#msg27482. I can see that that pizza has some characteristics of the Sicilian style but it is never referred to as a Sicilian style. The Greek style of pizza tends to be a Northeast U.S. pizza.

I don't see any reason why you can't use your poolish-based Lehmann dough to make a rectangular/square Sicilian-style pizza. That experience might also tell you whether you should consider modifying the Lehmann dough formulation to be more like a Sicilian dough.

I assume that your use of the diastatic malt was in accordance with Reply 244 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90586.html#msg90586. If so, it will be interesting to hear of your results.

The diastatic malt experiment I posted perhaps seems more complicated than it really is. There are just a lot of moving parts math-wise. I elaborated on the various steps mainly to instruct people on what they might expect if they do similar things as I did. That might lead them to take measures that will produce better results. If I were to continue to use the poolish method, I think I would use my proofing box or MR-132 unit to better control the temperatures during the prefermentation period. That would be for a winter dough. In the summer, I could preferment the poolish at room temperature. I think I would also scale back the amount of poolish.

Peter



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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #256 on: February 22, 2010, 07:42:17 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for the link to MWTC’s experiments with the poolish. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4625.0.html   It is interesting to hear how MWTC got the information from Bev Collins, who worked in the test kitchens for Domino's Pizza.  Do you think MWTC achieved this longer fermentation because of using some sugar in the final mix and also from achieving a low (70 degree F), final dough temperature? It is also interesting to read how Bev Collins believed slower fermentation and cooler temperature would create better flavors. Fifteen days fermentation is a long time.

I also see the concern when stepping up the batch for larger quantities.  I will have to address that after I get to try the Hatco Merchandiser. 

Your Greek/pub style pizza thread was interesting.  I have never tried that style of pizza, so I can’t compare it to the poolish preferment.  The Greek/pub style pizza does sound very good and I see you obtained great results when trying this pie. .http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.0.html

You are correct in the link in reply 244.  I used the amount of 0.41025 ounces of diastatic malt in the 5 test dough balls made, today. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90586.html#msg90586

Thanks for the links and additional information,

Norma
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 08:18:46 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #257 on: February 22, 2010, 08:12:41 PM »
Norma,

I have studied the MWTC thread several times at different stages of my poolish "education" and have yet to nail down how and why MWTC got the results he did. I could understand the results from the standpoint of keeping things cold and achieving a low finished dough temperature but the sugar part hasn't computed. As you know, I have made doughs that have lasted for up to a few weeks (in the refrigerator) without any sugar added to the dough so in my mind that minimizes the impact of sugar on dough longevity. Sometimes the answers come to me when I actually try out a dough and can see for myself what is going on. I haven't done that with MWTC's recipe.

I believe that Bev Collins's suggestion to cool things down to get more finished crust flavor was not anything new to most of the members of this forum who practice long cold fermentations. However, since she worked for Domino's, which had to be able to supply dough balls to their stores twice a week, she undoubtedly was fully aware of the ways to keep the dough balls cool so that they wouldn't overferment before the next delivery.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #258 on: February 23, 2010, 09:59:51 PM »
I tried the Sicilian style with the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough.  I first spread the dough with my fingers in a 12" deep-dish pan.  I did oil the pan with olive oil, before spreading.  I topped the dough with more olive oil.  I covered the pan with saran wrap and let the pan sit about an hour and a half.
 
This pies was dressed with some oregano, Italian seasoning, mozzarella and then sauce.

The pie was baked in the deep-dish that was placed on a screen.

I think this dough works out well for a Sicilian Pie.  I will have to some more experimenting with this.

Norma


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #259 on: February 23, 2010, 10:11:09 PM »
I also tried out the other four remaining test dough balls that had 0.41025 ounces of diastatic malt added.  These are the pictures of the finished pizzas with the added diastatic malt with the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough.
The other dough ball was used for the Sicilian style pizza. 

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #260 on: February 23, 2010, 10:43:08 PM »
Norma,

Can you refresh my memory on the timeline for the dough and pizzas using the poolish and diastatic malt? That is, what was the protocol/times for the poolish, the final mix, cold fermentation, etc.?

Also, did you detect any differences between the crusts with the diastatic malt and without it?

And how did the pizzas with the diastatic malt taste?

I assume that all of the pizzas, including the Sicilian-style pizza in the deep-dish pan, were baked at market. Is that correct?

Peter
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 10:46:50 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #261 on: February 23, 2010, 11:05:40 PM »
Peter,

The poolish was made last Friday at market and then left in the deli case until Monday.  I then incorporated the poolish into the final dough along with the diastatic malt on Monday.  The poolish preferment Lehmann dough was left to cold ferment until today.

In my opinion the crusts with the diastatic malt seemed to have more browning when baked.  I am always fiddling around with the temperature of my oven in 25 degree increments, so I am not sure if it was the diastatic malt or my oven temperature. 

The pizzas made with the diastatic malt tasted good, but I can’t say I noticed a big difference.  I did have two customers that bought the pizza tell me that was the best crust they ever tasted.  Who knows if this was the first pizza they bought from me or not.  I do have regular customers and they were not any of them. 

You are correct, the Sicilian and the other test dough balls were all made at market today. 

I am happy to be able to produce a Sicilian pizza from this same formula.  :)  I did just win (lol) some rectangular deep-dish pans on Ebay and am anxious to get them and see how they work.  More experimenting.

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #262 on: February 23, 2010, 11:19:40 PM »
Norma,

I can't say that I noticed a contribution to the crust flavor either because of the diastatic malt. I believe the major contribution of the diastatic malt is to crust coloration because of higher residual sugar levels. I think using nondiastatic malt is more likely to contribute to crust flavor, as well as color.

At least you didn't end up with a gummy dough using the diastatic malt so the percent you used appears to be a safe level.

Is your next experiment to be the use of the Hatco unit to preferment the poolish for a larger dough batch, or are you still unable to get the Hatco unit to market?

The latest pizzas look quite tasty. It looks like you are making steady progress.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #263 on: February 23, 2010, 11:31:10 PM »
Peter,

If all goes well this week, I do plan on taking the Hatco Merchandiser to market to be able to test a larger batch of poolish.  They are calling for snow again this Thursday.  I will have to wait and see it the snow materializes.  I would either take the unit to market Thursday or Friday. 

What kind of numbers am I looking at for a larger batch of poolish?  Do I just takes 10 times the numbers for a 10 lb. batch of final dough to try?

Yes, it seems like steady progress.  Next will be the bigger test, to see if my Hatco Unit is able to make a larger batch of poolish.

Thanks for going over this,

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #264 on: February 23, 2010, 11:43:25 PM »
What kind of numbers am I looking at for a larger batch of poolish?  Do I just takes 10 times the numbers for a 10 lb. batch of final dough to try?

Norma,

Is there a particular dough batch size or number of dough balls you would like to make? And would you be using diastatic malt?

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #265 on: February 23, 2010, 11:54:25 PM »
Peter,

I usually use 15 lb. batches of dough in my mixer.  Sometimes if I need extra dough, but not a full batch, then I use 10 lb. batches of dough.  Numbers for 15 lb. of dough would probably be a good starting point.  No, I don’t plan on using the diastatic malt, until I try out the poolish in the Hatco unit.

Thanks,

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #266 on: February 24, 2010, 10:32:22 AM »
Made this recipe for the first time last night.  I made 5 dough balls and used 2 last night after a 1 day fridge ferment of the dough.  Prior to that I did a 2 day fridge ferment of the poolish. Pics are below.  We liked it but didn't love it.  I changed one thing and that is I cooked it at around 525 for about 8-9 min.  My wife likes a crunch when she bites into a crust and that didn't happen. I cooked it at a lower temp (and longer) hoping that might help. I did like the blistering I got on the rim. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on getting the bottom of the crust to 'crunch' when you bite into it.  Is this not the recipe that'd do that?  For the remaining three dough balls I was going to try to cook it at around 675 in my bakers pride and also try to place a screen on top of the stone and see if I can get some more air under it.  I also have thought of a two stage cook process.  Cook for 4 minutes - take out let cool and then put back in for 3 min but that seems like too much work.    Overall, the dough handled very nicely and had nice flavor. 

See pics:


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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #267 on: February 24, 2010, 02:48:48 PM »
briterian
I didn’t have any problems with the crust being crunchy as you can see at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90651.html#msg90651 baked at home in my oven at 450 degrees F and the crust baked at market in my Baker’s Pride GP-61 baked between 525-550 degrees F. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg91071.html#msg91071
Let me know what results you achieve when you try this poolish preferment with the Lehmann dough, again.  Could you tell me what current formula you are using, before this formula?  I didn’t have any problems with the regular Lehmann dough being crunchy, either.  :-\
Hopefully someone can get this figured out for you.

Your pies look very tasty.  :)

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #268 on: February 24, 2010, 02:58:37 PM »
I usually use 15 lb. batches of dough in my mixer.  Sometimes if I need extra dough, but not a full batch, then I use 10 lb. batches of dough.  Numbers for 15 lb. of dough would probably be a good starting point.

Norma,

The poolish version of the Lehmann NY style dough formulation that you have been using for the five pizza dough batch is the one at Reply 149 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg88687.html#msg88687. The calculated weight of the dough produced using that formulation is 5.61 pounds. For a 15-pound dough batch you would have to multiply the numbers for the five pizza example by 15/5.61 = 2.674. However, the easier and better approach would be to just use the Dough Weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool, using 15 pounds as the desired dough batch weight (with a bowl residue compensation of 1.5%). Of course, you will have to go through carving up the basic dough formulation into the poolish part and the Final Mix part. If you need help with that, let me know.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #269 on: February 24, 2010, 03:16:40 PM »
Norma,

The poolish version of the Lehmann NY style dough formulation that you have been using for the five pizza dough batch is the one at Reply 149 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg88687.html#msg88687. The calculated weight of the dough produced using that formulation is 5.61 pounds. For a 15-pound dough batch you would have to multiply the numbers for the five pizza example by 15/5.61 = 2.674. However, the easier and better approach would be to just use the Dough Weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool, using 15 pounds as the desired dough batch weight (with a bowl residue compensation of 1.5%). Of course, you will have to go through carving up the basic dough formulation into the poolish part and the Final Mix part. If you need help with that, let me know.

Peter




Peter,

I think I will just start with the number of dough balls I want to try the poolish preferment of the Lehmann dough. That way I won’t have to carve up the basic dough formulation into the poolish part and the final mix part.  I sure am not good with numbers and knowing how to do all of that. 

Thanks,

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #270 on: February 24, 2010, 03:44:08 PM »
I think I will just start with the number of dough balls I want to try the poolish preferment of the Lehmann dough. That way I won’t have to carve up the basic dough formulation into the poolish part and the final mix part.

Norma,

How do you plan to do that? For example, will you just use the five pizza dough batch numbers, say, for a total of three times, to make 15 dough balls?

Peter

Offline briterian

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #271 on: February 24, 2010, 03:54:56 PM »
Hi Norma,
I used reply 149 for the recipe.  It was definitely good stuff but when you bite into didn't crunch within the internal section of the crust like it did within the outer crust area.  I'm doing another pie tonight and will let you know. I plan to back at 675 for 3 minutes and put a screen under it and back it another 2 and see how that turns out.  I hope that's a good idea since I think this dough can take the high heat since there is no sugar in it.

Online norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #272 on: February 24, 2010, 04:25:59 PM »
Peter,

I could either use the pizza batch numbers for 5 dough balls and take the numbers times 3 for 15 dough balls or take the single numbers for a single dough ball at reply 225 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90226.html#msg90226 and take that times the number of dough balls, I want to try.

Norma

briterian,

In the pictures of your pizza it looks like the crust is thin.  What kind of thickness factor did you use when making these pizzas.  My pizza has a thickness factor of 0.08932.  I really don’t know what you are experiencing is related to. 
When I use the pizza cutter to cut my pies, you can hear the crunch.  As can be seen on the pictures made in the baker’s pride oven, I do obtain char on the bottom crust.  I really don’t know if the problems you are experiencing are related to oven temperature.  With my home oven and my oven at market, I have to adjust the times baked to try and achieve the same results.  At home my temperature doesn’t go high enough to get a char.
It will be good to hear your results with a higher oven temperature.  That is something I have wanted to try for awhile, but never did.

What kind of hydration do you usually use when making your pies that do have more crunch?  I am not that experienced in trying different variables at this time.  I have only been making pizza for less than a year.

Thanks,

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #273 on: February 24, 2010, 05:37:27 PM »
Norma,

Your approach should work but it may be prone to errors in execution if there are too many steps. To simplify this matter, and since you specified a 15-pound dough batch as a likely size dough batch for your commercial operations, I have set forth below the profile for such a dough batch.

Total Lehmann NY Style Dough Formulation (Dough Batch Size of 15 Pounds)
King Arthur Sir Lancelot Flour (100%):
Water (61%):
IDY (0.40%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (164.15%):
4207.16 g  |  148.4 oz | 9.28 lbs
2566.37 g  |  90.52 oz | 5.66 lbs
16.83 g | 0.59 oz | 0.04 lbs | 5.59 tsp | 1.86 tbsp
73.63 g | 2.6 oz | 0.16 lbs | 4.4 tbsp | 0.27 cups
42.07 g | 1.48 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.35 tsp | 3.12 tbsp
6906.06 g | 243.6 oz | 15.23 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Preferment (Poolish)
King Arthur Sir Lancelot Flour (100%):
Water (100%):
IDY (0.30%):
Total (200.3%):
1026.3 g  |  36.2 oz | 2.26 lbs
1026.3 g  |  36.2 oz | 2.26 lbs
3.08 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
2055.67 g | 72.51 oz | 4.53 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Poolish represents about 80% of the Total Formula Water and about 30% of the total dough batch weight.

Final Mix
Poolish (from above):                                         2055.67 g | 72.51 oz | 4.53 lbs
Remaining Total Formula Sir Lancelot Flour (100%):
Remaining Total Formula Water (48.4166%):
Remaining Total Formula IDY (0.4324%):
Total formula Salt (2.31470%):
Total Formula Olive Oil (1.3288%):
3180.74 g  |  112.2 oz | 7.01 lbs
1540.01 g  |  54.32 oz | 3.4 lbs
13.75 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.57 tsp | 1.52 tbsp
73.62 g | 2.6 oz | 0.16 lbs | 4.4 tbsp | 0.27 cups
42.27 g | 1.49 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.39 tsp | 3.13 tbsp
Total Dough Batch Weight:                                  6906.06 g | 243.6 oz | 15.23 lbs

When you are ready for a 10-pound dough batch, let me know. That way, you will have a one dough ball, five dough ball, 10-pound and 15-pound versions.

Peter

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #274 on: February 24, 2010, 05:54:15 PM »
Peter,

Thank you so much for doing all the numbers, again.  :)  How long did it take you to figure this out?  I appreciate you taking the time to go over this, again. 
Hopefully the Hatco unit will work out, since you have spent so much time on the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough.

Norma


 

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