Author Topic: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza  (Read 162853 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #425 on: April 28, 2010, 11:05:50 PM »
Actually Norma, Those pictures are not accurate. Both the pepperoni pies are yours. The last one, with the red and yellow peppers is my standard Lehmann style dough recipe, except using only only whey.  Not shown is the garlic alfredo pie, using a poolish made with water( about 1/3) and the remainder(about 2/3) of the liquid being whey.

Steve,

Hmm, I have to look though my pictures, again.  Didn't we make your one pie with pepperoni? Thanks for correcting me on the amount of whey you did use.  I had it written down, but must have messed it up.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #426 on: April 28, 2010, 11:16:02 PM »
Steve,

Now I remember what other kind of pie you made.  I thought I also took a picture of that pie, but it isn't in my pictures.  I think I continued to be a wreck yesterday, because of that darn video.   :-D  I was up most of the night Monday worrying about it.  Hope this week goes better.  ;D

Thanks for refreshing my memory,

Norma

Offline Ev

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #427 on: April 28, 2010, 11:48:54 PM »
Peter,
 I used the calculator without totally understanding how it works. Using Normas' recipe as a guide, I loaded numbers and jockeyed them around until it looked right. I get hung up at the point where it asks for the preferments percentage of water. Anyway, what I came up with is basically this for a 4 ball batch, 16 inch pie single ball weight of 550 g

Total Flour   1342.59 g
Total Water(60%) 805.56 g
Total IDY .112%
Toal Salt 1.75%
Total O,oil 2%

Pre-f :
 Flour 277.2 g
water 282.8 g
IDY  1/4 t

Final Dough:
Pre-f
plus
Flour 1065.39
whey 422.76 g
IDY 1/4 t
salt & oil
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 11:50:48 PM by Ev »

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #428 on: May 01, 2010, 10:55:12 PM »
Yesterday I made enough poolish for 60 lbs. of dough.  The ambient temperature at market was 68 degrees F.  The water temperature was also 68 degrees F. I mixed the poolish in the Hobart mixer with the flat beater. The poolish was then put into two Cambro containers. The poolish only took 40 minutes in the Hatco Unit to bubble enough for it to then go into the deli case.  The Hatco unit temperature was set at 110 degrees F.

Seems like my work is getting easier.   :)

Norma

Offline Steam

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #429 on: May 02, 2010, 05:57:18 PM »
Hi everyone, great site! How could I scale Norma's Tom lehmann's recipe without the poolish for 15 23oz dough balls. Thanks in advance.

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #430 on: May 02, 2010, 06:13:56 PM »
Welcome Steam,

This is a great site, with so many pizzas.  :) I am not good at the math part to be able to figure out Tom Lehmann's formula for 15 23 oz. dough balls, but am sure someone else can figure it out for you.  What kind of thickness factor will you be using?  Also do you have any special flour in mind?  Do you want to make a NY style dough?

Thanks and I am sure you will like it here,

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #431 on: May 02, 2010, 06:35:50 PM »
Steam,

Norma can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the basic Lehmann NY style dough formulation that she has been using, before converting it to a poolish format, is the one shown in the top one of the three sections at Reply 225 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg90226.html#msg90226. If you enter the baker's percents from that dough formulation into the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html, using the Dough Weight option, and completing the entries required, you should be able to come up with the information you requested. If you will be using a stand mixer, you may want to use a bowl residue compensation (to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough) of 1.5%.

You won't need to use a thickness factor if you already know the dough ball weight you want, but the type of flour you use will be an important factor in the results you get using the dough formulation.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #432 on: May 02, 2010, 06:56:19 PM »
Steam,

Peter is right on the formula I was using before the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough.

This is the Tom Lehmann dough forumla I was using when I started making pizza.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8341.msg71965.html#msg71965 I did then up the hydration.

Hope this helps,

Norma

Offline Steam

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #433 on: May 02, 2010, 09:55:44 PM »
I'll be using a old Hobart 30 qt mixer that only mixes on the second setting because the knob has been soldered. As for the flour I have access to the local pizza distributor called Labrada distributors and they have a high gluten flour witch I guess they get from the states and repackage under there name. I'm looking for a NY style dough with good dough elasticity. The dough I've been doing has been wrong all along until Norma told me about this site. The dough I made, used an empty can of Saporito sauce to measure the flour so I would put 3 cans of flour in the mixer with 1 can of water 5 ounces of sugar and 5 ounces of salt 2 ounces of granulated garlic 2.5 ounces of IDY and 5 ounces of vegetable oil, that alone is so wrong on so many levels. First I would put the dry ingredients including IDY in the bowl next the oil, water sifted it then added the flour and then to get mixed. After 8-10 minutes I would cut and ball about 13-15 dough balls but they would rise within 15-minutes. The dough would never be the same maybe really dry or really moist. Im trying to learn and atleast I've found this forum thanks to Norma and appreciate any help I can get.

Sean T. 


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #434 on: May 02, 2010, 10:36:42 PM »
Sean,

I only have a 20 qt. Hobart mixer and only mix on speed one.  In regards to the flour, I am not familiar with what kind of protein content is in your flour.  Are you making this dough for a commercial pizza business?  If you are in my opinion you should get a scale that would weigh out your ingredients, and then learn how to manage your dough. I cold ferment my dough for one day, but others cold ferment for longer.

If you want to start a new thread and ask all these questions, others will also help you.  I am not an expert, but there are many people on this forum that are willing to help you achieve your goals.

I'll be using a old Hobart 30 qt mixer that only mixes on the second setting because the knob has been soldered. As for the flour I have access to the local pizza distributor called Labrada distributors and they have a high gluten flour witch I guess they get from the states and repackage under there name. I'm looking for a NY style dough with good dough elasticity. The dough I've been doing has been wrong all along until Norma told me about this site. The dough I made, used an empty can of Saporito sauce to measure the flour so I would put 3 cans of flour in the mixer with 1 can of water 5 ounces of sugar and 5 ounces of salt 2 ounces of granulated garlic 2.5 ounces of IDY and 5 ounces of vegetable oil, that alone is so wrong on so many levels. First I would put the dry ingredients including IDY in the bowl next the oil, water sifted it then added the flour and then to get mixed. After 8-10 minutes I would cut and ball about 13-15 dough balls but they would rise within 15-minutes. The dough would never be the same maybe really dry or really moist. Im trying to learn and atleast I've found this forum thanks to Norma and appreciate any help I can get.

Sean T. 

Sean,

After rereading your last post, there are different things about your dough formula, that may need to be looked at.  I also had problems when I first starting making the dough for pizza. I had skins that stretched back, dough that over-fermented, dough that was inconsistent and many other problems. There are so many variables that can go into making pizza dough.  Room temperature, water temperature, amount of hydration, levels of IDY, salt levels, finished dough temperature, how long it takes you to ball the dough, method of keeping dough cold, ferment time, bake time and temperature and many other variables can all come into play. I started with a regular scale, but since have switched to a digital scale. The scale now helps me to precisely weigh the ingredients in Bakerís percents. If you are going to be making larger quantities of dough, all these things will come into play even more.

As I said before, if you want to make a NY style pie, start a new thread under NY style or the Newbie section and ask for help. I did post under the Newbie section, when I started making pizza.  It took me a little while, but with the help of this forum I did get my issues with pizza dough resolved. I am still learning and will be for the rest of my life. Explain everything you have explained under this thread.   

At least you have come to the right place to get some of your problems resolved. If you are making your pizza for a business, then you might also want to register at PMQ think tank.

Best of luck,

Norma
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 06:46:36 AM by norma427 »

Offline Ev

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #435 on: May 03, 2010, 08:09:24 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress with the Lehmann poolish-based pizzas. They all look very inviting.

It would be interesting to see photos of Steve's (Ev's) pizzas using the same recipe (as modified to use the whey liquid) but baking the pizzas in his home oven.

Peter

Here are the pies I baked on Sunday. The dough was about 8 hours shy of one week old at this point.
 The first two pies were made using water for the poolish and whey for the rest(about 2/3) of the liquid.
 The next two are a basic Lehmann style recipe using whey for 100% of the formula liquid.
 To be honest, I don't think I could tell these apart, flavor-wise. Perhaps the extended fermentation equalized any difference there may have been. Both were soft and tender with an almost creamy, bread like texture. Probably more like American style than N.Y. style.
 After a week, the poolish dough had visabally risen about 30% more, even though it had 50% less yeast.

Sorry I didn't get more detailed in-depth photos. I had a lot of guests over and it was rather hectic.
 

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #436 on: May 03, 2010, 08:33:43 AM »
Steve,

Your pies look delicious.  ;D Good to hear the dough didnít over-ferment for you.  You are sure a great manager of your dough. I bet the taste of the crust was delicious after the long ferment.  Most important...did your mother-in-law like your pies?

Thanks for sharing pictures of your pies,

Norma

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #437 on: May 03, 2010, 08:44:07 AM »
Thanks Norma.  Mom said it was the best she ever tasted, but you know how moms can be!  ;)

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #438 on: May 03, 2010, 10:03:10 AM »
Steve,

Terrific job. Thanks for posting your results.

Can you tell us how you baked the pizzas, i.e., the type of oven, stone position, temperatures, times, etc.?

Peter

Offline Ev

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #439 on: May 03, 2010, 02:14:43 PM »
Sure, I baked all these on an American Metalcraft, cordiarite(?), 5/8 x 16 stone, on the lowest position of my Maytag electric oven, pre-heated to 550 for an hour and a half, for eh?, 5 or 6 minutes, tops.

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #440 on: May 03, 2010, 02:27:14 PM »
Oh, and FWIW, the first pie was Red, Yellow and Orange Sweet Peppers, Then Hormel pepperoni, then plain cheese, then garlic alfredo w/sun-dried tomatoes. All of these pies used Grande East Coast blend Mozz. and 6-in-1 tomatoes, except the garlic alf., which was just a basic jarred Alf. sauce, infused with minced garlic and tomato pesto.

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #441 on: May 03, 2010, 06:11:36 PM »
These are just pictures of what my poolish looks like after three days in the deli case, before being incorporated into the final dough.  The last picture is how I store my dough balls when I cold ferment.

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #442 on: May 12, 2010, 08:18:49 AM »
These are some uses for the poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough.  Someone could also use these in other doughs.  I took some pictures of making the garlic knots and pizza pinwheels.  There are also pictures of the cheesy breadsticks below.  If anyone is interested in how I make these, just let me know and I will also take pictures of the steps to make them.  There are also pizza buns made with the same dough.

The garlic knots are made with a bigger dough ball, than I use for my normal pizzas.  I first open the dough ball, then use a pizza cutter to divide into strips.  Then just roll each strip into a rope, tie them, and cut the ends with a pizza cutter. If you have extra ends after cutting, you can just put these ends together and roll them, also. Place the garlic knots on a screen and bake, until golden brown. Then I dip them into a mixture of fresh herbs (garlic, oregano, basil, and parsley) that I have been processed in the food processor and had microwaved with olive oil until the mixture wilted.  To this mixture I added some more olive oil, butter and margarine.  Then they are either topped with Asiago grated cheese, grated Parmesan cheese, or Romano cheese.  These were topped with grated Asiago cheese.  They can be eaten hot or you can cool them in the refrigerator and reheat them on a screen.

The pizza pinwheels are made by opening a dough ball, dressing with sauce, placing pepperoni on, then mozzarella cheese or a blend and brushing the same mixture of fresh herbs on the top of the dough.  Then just roll the dough, cut with a scissors and place on parchment paper and bake.  These pizza pinwheels also can be eaten hot or cooled down and reheated.  You could also add many different ingredients or herbs before rolling and cutting to create different flavor profiles.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #443 on: May 12, 2010, 08:19:44 AM »
garlic knots

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #444 on: May 12, 2010, 08:21:10 AM »
pizza pinwheels

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #445 on: May 12, 2010, 08:21:58 AM »
pizza pinwheels

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #446 on: May 12, 2010, 08:22:44 AM »
cheesy breadsticks

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #447 on: May 12, 2010, 10:56:54 AM »
Norma, everything looks fantastic!

Update:  I hate the tortilla creamcheese pinwheels - YUCK!  But pizza pinwheels, now that I can eat.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 11:13:31 AM by Tranman »

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #448 on: May 12, 2010, 11:10:41 AM »
Norma, everything looks fantastic!

Tran,

Thanks for the compliment.  :)  This dough is great to make many things.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza
« Reply #449 on: May 17, 2010, 08:49:08 PM »


I decided to do a little experiment with this dough that was frozen from last week.  I wanted to see if I could defrost the dough in the microwave and then make hamburger buns out of the dough.  I did defrost the dough in the microwave and then just cut the dough into four pieces. I gently joined the dough together to form a circle and floured them.  I let the four circles sit on the plate for an hour and fifteen minutes at room temperature.  I then melted unsalted butter in a cast iron pan and fried the dough at number 5 on my electric stove.  I was surprised how well the dough rose.  When the dough looked like it was fried enough, I took the buns out and put them into the oven.  I didnít preheat the oven for very long. I just turned it to 500 degrees F for 10 minutes.  I then placed the buns in the oven on the pizza stone for 8 minutes.

I decided to fry hamburgers and make the hamburger patties more like a pizza.  I used fresh herbs, that were microwaved with olive oil and grated before in the food processor.  The hamburgers were dressed with pizza sauce and mozzarella cheese.  I then brushed on the herb dressing on one side of the bun.

I now know I can make hamburger buns with this dough and even microwave the dough from a frozen state.  I would have used my outside grill to make the hamburgers, but it was raining.

Norma


 

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