Author Topic: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.  (Read 43430 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2010, 11:36:43 PM »
Norma427,
these are arancini, also a sicilian specialty from Palermo.

ninapizza23,

They look delicious, also.

Thanks for posting a picture.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2010, 11:56:33 PM »
ninapizza23,

I have never tried the aranicni.  The next time I come up to New York, I will give them a try.  Do you make these, also?

Thanks,
Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2010, 06:50:21 AM »
ninapizza23,

I have never tried the aranicni.  The next time I come up to New York, I will give them a try.  Do you make these, also?

Thanks,
Norma

Norma,
Arancini are so easy to make, you must try them.  Growing up in a Sicilian household they were a stable at my house for Sunday lunch.  It's a very simple food originally derived from leftover risotto.

Matt

Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2010, 07:26:10 AM »
Matt,
I will have to try to make arancini before I go to New York..they sound delicious.

I have been thinking about the Sfincione and what I have read about the way Gabrielle makes his Sfincione like foccaccia that is so light and airy.  I have mixed a biga this morning to see what the results would be. 
Since ninapizza23 knows so much about this, I thought I would try my hand at making a very high hydration dough like foccaccia.

Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2010, 07:42:59 AM »
Matt,
I will have to try to make arancini before I go to New York..they sound delicious.

I have been thinking about the Sfincione and what I have read about the way Gabrielle makes his Sfincione like foccaccia that is so light and airy.  I have mixed a biga this morning to see what the results would be. 
Since ninapizza23 knows so much about this, I thought I would try my hand at making a very high hydration dough like foccaccia.

Norma

Norma,
I was thinking the same thing.  I am going to go up to 80% hydration & am contemplating using a starter with a 2 day fermentation.  I have been favoring my Ischia for a while now, so I'm trying to bring my Camoldoli back to life as I really like it when doing a 2 day fermentation.  My only dilemma at this point is the bread flour to semola ratio, my gut is telling me 50/50, the sicilian in me is saying 100% semola.   I found out that the bread flour that I was using before was actually what the italians refer to as "Manitoba Flour", so I must definitely pick up another bag.  In North America it's commonly referred to as Western Hard Wheat more specifically, Hard Unbleached White Flour.

Matt


Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2010, 08:00:30 AM »
I thought since I was trying to make a biga for my regular Lehmann dough to increase the flavor of the crust and had failed at my first attempt, I would try to make a biga at home to see what results the biga would add to a foccaccia-type Sfincione with a high hydration.
The whole idea of airy crust has always fascinated me since I see all this wonderful pictures of Sfincione and other pizzas on this forum with light and airy crusts.
I decided to try and make a biga with KASL bread flour, a small amount of Caputo tipo ď00" flour, sea salt, IDY and to replace a small portion of the water with a wine my uncle made in 1968.  I usually reserve this wine only for making ham at Christmas, but since this whole idea of Gabrielle using a mother dough, I thought how could this contribute to the overall Sfincione. 
I mixed the biga this morning and by the looks of it, maybe this time I got the biga right.  The biga will be left in the glass bowl to rest for around 8 to 10 hours.  Then it will be incorporated into final dough made with KAAP. 
These are the steps taken so far.
I will post pictures and results whether they are good or bad.  Maybe in time I will be able to make Sfincione.
If anyone has ideas or comments on the way I am going about this, please post.

Norma

Matt,
I am interested to see how your idea turns out.  Please post on how you are progressing.

Thanks,
Norma
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 08:11:00 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2010, 08:06:56 AM »



Norma,
PM me your email address & I'll send you something that me & Bob1 came up with.

Matt
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 08:09:05 AM by Matthew »

Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2010, 01:20:48 PM »
I donít know if this has been posted on this forum before, but I found this interesting how Peter Reinhart discusses all the stages of bread.  It is about 15 minutes long.  Since I can learn more from watching and listening, I found this video useful.  Although he is talking about bread it also relates to pizza making.  Peter Reinhart talks about 12 stages from wheat and bread as transformation.
You can adjust the slider to the 12 stages from wheat or bread as transformation with your mouse.  There is also interactive transcript on the right to follow along what Peter Reinhart is saying.

Peter Reinhart on bread

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_reinhart_on_bread.html

Norma
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 01:38:03 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2010, 05:27:23 PM »
This is how the biga and dough are proceeding.  The biga rose as you can see by the pictures.  The biga is incorporated into the dough.

Picture 1 dough mixed
Picture 2 biga fermented
Picture 3 biga incorporated into dough..sorry this picture of my hand turned out red

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2010, 09:41:55 PM »
The Sfincione style pizza is finished.  I did let the regular dough rise, did a rigenero 3 times and let the dough rise one final time, before I dressed the pie.  Although the Sicilian pizza was good, it doesnít look like the Sfincione Gabrille makes.  Although traditional Sfincione isnít  dressed as this pie was, this was dressed with part mozzarella, part grated Parmesan cheese, pizza sauce that Steve and I traded, fresh pesto, pepperoni, parsley, half with red onion, sliced Roma tomatoes, oregano, some fennel seeds, and Italian seasoning.
I will try again to make this kind of pie, but will go about it differently. 
Our family enjoyed eating this new pie.  :) This was also a good experience using a biga and also using a high hydration dough.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 09:57:11 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2010, 09:43:51 PM »
Rest of the pictures.

Norma
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Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2010, 11:41:10 PM »
Norma,

That sure looks a pie fit to feed several hungry people alright. How long were your rigenero phases, and did they help make the wet dough more manageable (or otherwise help with the gluten development in noticeable ways) ?

-JLP



Scarsu d'ogghiu, e riccu di provolazzu ::)

Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2010, 12:13:03 AM »
JLP,

I had 3 rigenero phases and maybe four if you count the vigorous mix I gave the dough when put on the table.  Each rigenero was about 3 minutes, except the final kneading I did on the table with bench flour for about 4 minutes.  I donít know when Gabrielle shows how to do the rigenero or rigorous kneading if the steps are shown in the order he does them.  I donít think I would post a video of all what goes into making a special dough like this.  The order shown, could have been reversed.  The rigenero phases did help make the dough more manageable in each one.  After the final kneading, I let the dough sit a rest for awhile.  The dough was not really sticky then, but after I let it rest covered with saran wrap, it became sticky, again.  If you look at the pictures, I think it did give better gluten development.  I am not an expert on this, though.  The interesting thing about this practice experiment was when a little dough had been left on the table, it dried and then looked like spider webs.
If you have any other questions, just ask. 
I really liked this pie, but am sure it isnít anything like Gabrielle's.  It was a really good Sicilian pie in my opinion.  I will try the same thing again, but with different flour. 

Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2010, 06:56:30 AM »
Rest of the pictures.

Norma

Good Job Norma.

Matt

Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2010, 07:19:13 AM »
Matt,
Thank you..I appreciated your compliment because you have been on this journey..and I am only new.  :)  I want to try a different approach the next time.  The different things that would be experimented with are me learning to make and use a natural preferment at about 50/50 flour to water ratio.  The other approach would be using rye flour in the natural preferment.  I would like to see what results I could obtain from a new approach.  I think I am moving away from the biga effort to see how a natural preferment could increase the airy crust..I still am looking for.
I still don't know much about natural preferments, but maybe will post on how someone could help me learn.
Keep me posted on your efforts.

Thanks,
Norma
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2010, 08:02:21 AM »
Matt,
Thank you..I appreciated your compliment because you have been on this journey..and I am only new.  :)  I want to try a different approach the next time.  The different things that would be experimented with are me learning to make and use a natural preferment at about 50/50 flour to water ratio.  The other approach would be using rye flour in the natural preferment.  I would like to see what results I could obtain from a new approach.  I think I am moving away from the biga effort to see how a natural preferment could increase the airy crust..I still am looking for.
I still don't know much about natural preferments, but maybe will post on how someone could help me learn.
Keep me posted on your efforts.

Thanks,
Norma

You bet Norma, if you're looking for a product similar to Gabrielle's, you can try 15% semola & 85% bread flour @ about 75-76% hydration along with the corresponding poolish.  The TF will be somewhere in the neighborhood of .12-.13.  You can put your sauce on first while parbaking the crust & then add the cheese towards the end.  The first one that I made was just baked with sauce.  Once it came out of the oven it was topped with romano cheese, artichokes, fior di latte, oregano,fleur de sel. & unfiltered EVOO.

Matt

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2010, 08:12:33 AM »
Matt,

Thank you for the tips.  I am looking for a product to try similar to Gabrielleís.  I was wondering about parbaking the crust first.  Thanks for you help. 
If you look at bakerboy pictures and his tomato pie..it looks like he has achieved a great pie.  :)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9954.0.html

Thanks again,

Norma
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 08:16:03 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Matthew

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2010, 08:31:46 AM »
Matt,

Thank you for the tips.  I am looking for a product to try similar to Gabrielleís.  I was wondering about parbaking the crust first.  Thanks for you help. 
If you look at bakerboy pictures and his tomato pie..it looks like he has achieved a great pie.  :)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9954.0.html

Thanks again,

Norma

Yes, I saw that.....picture perfect.  The dough that is presently fermenting for my sfincione is made with a natural starter & 2 day fermentation, we'll see how it goes.

Matt

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2010, 09:12:43 AM »
@Norma Wow - that looks amazing. I'm not speaking from a wealth of experience but I reckon you got that just about perfect.

@Matthew Sounds like the makings of an excellent sfincione there. In my opinion, semolina doughs benefit from a long fermentation (I think it helps bring out some of their 'buttery' flavours). I tried a quick yeast 100% semolina dough a few months ago, just to bake as regular batards and was very dissatisfied with the results. Now if only I could find a reliable source of semolina or durum flour around here....


Offline norma427

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Re: Felice Anno Nuovo! Pizza Sfincione to greet the new year.
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2010, 12:19:24 PM »
Matt,

I am interested in seeing how your sfincione turns out.  What kind of natural starter are you using, if you donít mind me asking?  I think a two day fermentation, will also give you better results.  If you look back though bakerboyís posts, you will get a clue of what  kind of natural starter he uses to make his dough.  I donít think he uses a long ferment, although I could be wrong.  Since he is a professional baker, he does have a lot of experience with making his tomato pies.

Norma 

Infoodel,   
Thanks for saying you thought the pie was picture perfect.  I wanted to achieve something more light and airy, but the pie was still something different and also tasty.  I think I have to go about it differently.
I am also interested is what adding semolina or durum added with another flour would add.  Thanks for telling me how you think the longer ferment brings out the more buttery flavor..that is something I didnít know.  What kind of pie were you making when you used the semolina?

Norma
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 12:24:54 PM by norma427 »
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