Author Topic: What is your opinion of this sicilian pizza? Go against all the rules?  (Read 519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2005
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Parbake dough and cheese first?  If only shredded cheese available this may be the way to go because saucing over raw shredded cheese is a pain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRPOC3e1Tc&feature=youtube_gdata
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline JD

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 936
  • Location: NE Mississippi, but NY born & raised
I feel like the definition Sicillian" is thrown around incorrectly on these boards, but I'm no expert so I cannot back that up with anything other than what I grew up eating.

To me, true NY Sicillian is minimum 1.5" high with a random hole structure, relatively soft bottom,  and has peaks and valleys on top. This is made by proofing dough in a seasoned square pan, adding sauce after proofing and baking without cheese for 15-20 minutes. Then you add cheese and finish baking.

I haven't seen much from Scott on sicillian pizza, but I'd like to hear his opinion (if he has one) or anyone else who would know better than I.

Josh

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2005
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
I feel like the definition Sicillian" is thrown around incorrectly on these boards, but I'm no expert so I cannot back that up with anything other than what I grew up eating.

To me, true NY Sicillian is minimum 1.5" high with a random hole structure, relatively soft bottom,  and has peaks and valleys on top. This is made by proofing dough in a seasoned square pan, adding sauce after proofing and baking without cheese for 15-20 minutes. Then you add cheese and finish baking.

I haven't seen much from Scott on sicillian pizza, but I'd like to hear his opinion (if he has one) or anyone else who would know better than I.

I've even heard that traditional sicilian is made by par baking the crust first, then the sauce then the cheese.  Ever heard that?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6642
I haven't seen much from Scott on sicillian pizza, but I'd like to hear his opinion (if he has one) or anyone else who would know better than I.

Josh, Sicilian pizza runs along a pretty wide spectrum.  For 40 years, all I knew of as Sicilian pizza was the 1.5" thick pizza you're describing. I hope I'm not stepping on your toes here, but that pizza is my arch nemesis ;D I am all about bubbled cheese. Fat is flavor and unless you bubble cheese, unless you oil off the cheese, it doesn't release it's fat and flavor is inhibited.  When you parbake or put cheese on thick dough, it insulates the cheese and prevents heat from rising and bubbling the cheese.  You can brown the cheese from above, but that's not the same as bubbling and doesn't extract as much of the delicious butterfat.

And the NY Sicilian that you and I remember, that typically wasn't even browned from above. I have nightmares of cold super thick Sicilian slices with barely melted pure white tasteless cheese sitting in the case.  Those slices and the ziti slices would just sit there for hours. The horror!  ;D

I don't see many of those classic Sicilian slices being made on this forum, and, to be frank, I'm kind of glad.

It's very hard for me to be diplomatic about typical NY area Sicilian :) The chains have made trillions of dollars with partially melted cheese pulling away in strings on pizzas in commercials, so I know partially melted cheese has a following (however misguided they may be), but once that oily buttery goodness drips down your chin, you can never go back.  I can definitely understand the interest in cold fior di latte with basil and tomatoes in a caprese salad, but I have very little tolerance for mozzarella that's partially melted. Give me butterfat or give me death!  ;D

Most of the Sicilian you find on the forum avoids the pitfalls of NY Sicilian. Grandma style is very thin, and baked for up to 15 minutes and utilizes powerfully flavored ingredients and is in a treasured class of it's own.  Brooklyn Sicilian (L&B) is thinner than typical NY area Sicilian and, because it goes cheese first, then sauce, the cheese doesn't dry out and set on top and releases a bit more fat. Detroit Sicilian has the ultimate in bubbled cheese- the greasy crispy edges. I'm not entirely certain on the non crust cheese area in Detroit, but the amazing crumbs that Norma and others are able to achieve are more than enough to compensate for any potential cheese shortcomings.

As far as the pizza in the video Nate posted, it feels a little bit like a Detroit that's returned to the oven after being sauced.  I wouldn't even begin to pretend that I know anything about Chicago pizza, so I can't speak to authenticity, but, based upon my personal feelings about melted cheese, that particular pie misses the mark.

Offline JD

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 936
  • Location: NE Mississippi, but NY born & raised
You're allowed to have an opinion, Scott  ;D

Your explanation makes perfect sense and is spot-on with a Sicillian pizza I made a few months ago. I'm not ashamed to admit that I liked it, but it's probably more nostalgia than the best of flavors. I'll have to give the thinner style a try. I never loved a grandma pizza but I think it was the garlic overload they all seemed to have.

Josh

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21165
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Nate,

I have tried quite a few Sicilian style pizzas some with a par baked crust.  I also have tried a Grandma's style something like what is posted on this thread at  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4072.msg34598#msg34598  I posted my results at Reply 14 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10284.msg91453#msg91453 and on a few other threads. 

Norma
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 09:19:35 AM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!


 

pizzapan