Author Topic: Pizzarium  (Read 128741 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #300 on: January 25, 2011, 11:00:15 PM »
rest of pictures

Norma
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #301 on: January 25, 2011, 11:07:28 PM »
Nice work Norma.  The crumb looks great. 

Chau

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #302 on: January 25, 2011, 11:28:17 PM »
Nice work Norma.  The crumb looks great. 

Chau

Chau,

Thanks!  :) The crumb was different than any other pizza I made before.  I still haven't figured out if it was from adding the flour slowly and mixing for a much longer time or is the gluten also developed more from room temperature fermenting and then cold fermenting.  This higher hydration dough just felt much different than any other dough I have worked with before.

Norma
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #303 on: January 25, 2011, 11:41:52 PM »
Norma, the market can hold you no more.  You must find a place to expand and grow.  Are you willing to accept investors ?  Tons of  people would enjoy your efforts.  Would you consider a bigger location?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #304 on: January 26, 2011, 12:10:43 AM »
Norma, the market can hold you no more.  You must find a place to expand and grow.  Are you willing to accept investors ?  Tons of  people would enjoy your efforts.  Would you consider a bigger location?

Jet_deck,

I appreciate your kindness.  :) I just enjoy the challenge and what I can learn from making different kinds of pizzas.  I am way to old to be thinking about opening a bigger location.  A pizzeria man came to visit me today.  He has been at my small pizza stand before.  He wants to buy my stand for his nephew.  He own Roccoís Pizza near Gettysburg, Pa. I think, but am not sure he has two pizzerias. He smelled  this dough about a couple of hours before I made this pizza.  He said donít let the dough go much longer, because it wonít be any good.  We were talking about pizzas for awhile.  I told Lorenzo that I was trying to make a focaccia style pizza.  He said he just bought loads of blue steel pans at an auction and would give me some next week.  I hope if Lorenzo does bring me blue steel pans they will also work well.  I showed Lorenzo the pan I was going to use and he said it wouldnít work for the pizza I was going to make.  He was the same person that told me awhile ago that my dough isnít proofed enough.  :-D I still haven't figured that out. I have never tried his pizza, but he told me today he goes though about 200 lbs. of flour a day.  If he comes again next week, I have to think of more questions to ask him.  He talks so fast, I can hardly keep up with him.  I told Lorenzo I am not interested in selling my small pizza stand at market, because I really do enjoy making pizza and talking to customers, but said if I ever want to sell my small market stand I would call him. 

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #305 on: January 26, 2011, 09:26:17 AM »
I can attest to the high quality of the outcome of this experiment because I was there. Admittedly, I have not been following this thread at all and so was impressed when Norma told me what all went into producing this dough. I was even more impressed with the resulting pie. So light and airy, soft and supple! Even after cooling and standing at room temp for a couple hours, it remained tender. I think the flavor may have even improved! Bravo! Now, I'm going to have to try this myself!

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #306 on: January 26, 2011, 09:35:56 AM »
I can attest to the high quality of the outcome of this experiment because I was there. Admittedly, I have not been following this thread at all and so was impressed when Norma told me what all went into producing this dough. I was even more impressed with the resulting pie. So light and airy, soft and supple! Even after cooling and standing at room temp for a couple hours, it remained tender. I think the flavor may have even improved! Bravo! Now, I'm going to have to try this myself!

Steve,

Thanks for saying you also liked this last attempt.  :) I also tried a part of a slice last evening when I got home.  I ate it cold.  The taste was good.  I am going to reheat some slices today to see what kind of flavor there is in reheating and also if the slices can be reheated.

Best of luck trying this kind of pizza! 

Norma
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #307 on: January 26, 2011, 09:52:13 AM »
Norma - You should open a Pizzarium with that kind of result. Excellent crumb!

John

Offline Matthew

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #308 on: January 26, 2011, 09:53:48 AM »
Very nice Norma.
You rocked it!

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #309 on: January 26, 2011, 11:21:03 AM »
Norma - You should open a Pizzarium with that kind of result. Excellent crumb!

John

John,

Thanks for saying this pie had an excellent crumb.  :) I would like to be able to offer something like this at market, but I really don't know if I can reproduce the same results again.  I was even surprised how this pizza turned out, after all my other attempts.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #310 on: January 26, 2011, 11:23:05 AM »
Very nice Norma.
You rocked it!

Matt,

Thanks for your kind words!   :)  Coming from you, John, and Chau, who are much better pizza makers than I am, I really appreciate the comments.

Norma
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #311 on: January 26, 2011, 12:12:14 PM »
John,

Thanks for saying this pie had an excellent crumb.  :) I would like to be able to offer something like this at market, but I really don't know if I can reproduce the same results again.  I was even surprised how this pizza turned out, after all my other attempts.

Norma

Norma - Is this the first time you used 85% durum in the recipe?

John

Offline Jose L. Piedra

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #312 on: January 26, 2011, 01:23:08 PM »
I would like to be able to offer something like this at market, but I really don't know if I can reproduce the same results again.

I think the formula is a good one (I got a good result using one that was very similar). If you can remember what you did with respect to the mixing/stretching protocol and rise time, it should be reproducible. I think an important part of making these is identifying the point in the rise beyond which the dough is in danger of overfermenting/dying.

If you ever sell them commercially, maybe we could all lobby Pizzablogger to feature your stand on the Slice blog :)

JLP
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #313 on: January 26, 2011, 02:33:27 PM »
Norma - Is this the first time you used 85% durum in the recipe?

John

John,

This is the first time I used 85% durum flour in the mix.  I did use all durum flour in another mix.  I used the blue bag Caputo for the other 15% of the mix.  I will take a picture of the blue bag Caputo I used.  This was also the first time I tried CY in the formula.  I used Fleischmann's cake yeast.  I will try to explain in my next post to Jose all what I did. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #314 on: January 26, 2011, 03:21:34 PM »
I think the formula is a good one (I got a good result using one that was very similar). If you can remember what you did with respect to the mixing/stretching protocol and rise time, it should be reproducible. I think an important part of making these is identifying the point in the rise beyond which the dough is in danger of overfermenting/dying.

If you ever sell them commercially, maybe we could all lobby Pizzablogger to feature your stand on the Slice blog :)

JLP


Jose,

I will try to explain to you and anyone that is interested what I did to try and make the pizza I did.  When looking at the pictures I posted on Reply 275 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9946.msg124388.html#msg124388 it can be seen how the dough looked when it was finished being mixed in the first picture.  In the second picture the dough is in a smaller plastic container.  That dough was stretched and folded two times after 45 minute intervals.  In the third picture the dough had already been cold fermented overnight.  I had done a total of 6 stretch and folds the night before and had the dough out at room temperature for 3 Ĺ hrs., before placing it in the refrigerator.  The next morning, I took the plastic container out of the refrigerator and did more stretch and folds, for a total of 4 more.  That was over a period of 4 more hours.  Then the dough had reached the top of the smaller container.  I then the dough to market and left it in the deli case overnight.  When I arrived at market in the morning, the dough was almost pushing off the lid, so I moved the dough to a larger container.  I left the dough sit out at room temperatures at market, for about 7 hours.  The dough became very gassy as can be seen in Reply 299 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9989.msg124534.html#msg124534 That picture was taken about 2 Ĺ hrs. before baking the pizza.  That is the first picture in that posted.  The second picture is how the bottom of the dough looked right before the bake.  As can be seen in all those pictures the dough did grow by a lot.  I also think that it is critical to be able to tell when the dough is ready and not overproof it.  I wasnít even sure I didnít overproof the dough, until I baked it.  I did let the opened skin, proof more in the deep-dish steel pan for another about 1 Ĺ hrs., covered with linen towels.  Then I lightly coated the skin with herb infused oil.  The skin after proofing did seem dry, before brushing with oil.  The dough didnít rise much while proofing. 

The method I used to mix the dough was the method of mixing flour slowly into the water.  I spent about 40 minutes slowly mixing the flour in and trying to form more gluten.  The salt and oil werenít added until the end of the mix.  When the dough was finished mixing, it looked very sticky.  After the salt was added in I could see the gluten tighten up.  I mixed on various speeds in my Kitchen Aid Professional HD mixer.  At some times I even tried the highest speed to see what would happen.  That is speed 10, but I didnít keep the mixer on speed 10 for too long.  I used my hands that were wet with water to do the stretch and folds.  The dough became very robust from doing the stretch and folds. 

I donít know if these explanations can help anyone or not that want to make this kind of pizza.  I donít even know if I can reproduce the same results the next time, but I probably will try again next week.  There is no way of knowing if I was doing anything right or wrong in what methods I used to mix or what I did after the mix.  I would have thought the dough was overproofed.  I also wonder how I could tell if the dough became overproofed.  I didnít do any punch downs of the dough after it really began to rise. 

I would like to be able to sell this kind of pizza at market, but some way it would have to be tried over and over to see what the results are.  In a home setting without being a professional with this type of pizza, there is too much watching of the dough and then not knowing how the final bake will be.  Maybe this dough could be cold fermented for more days to make this kind of dough easier to make.  If anyone has any ideas about anything I posted, let me know.  My formula was very similar to yours, Jose.  I also used sea salt in the formula.  I used olive oil in the formula, too.

Picture of flour and yeast I used in the formula.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 03:24:41 PM by norma427 »
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Offline malvanova

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #315 on: January 26, 2011, 09:20:39 PM »
all I can say is OUTSTANDING!!!!!! great job Norma (gimme me the details) how long how much , don't know if I can get cake yeast around here never seen it on store shelf, where did you get it???

  Phil

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #316 on: January 26, 2011, 09:54:53 PM »
Looks great Norma ;D

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #317 on: January 26, 2011, 10:08:51 PM »
all I can say is OUTSTANDING!!!!!! great job Norma (gimme me the details) how long how much , don't know if I can get cake yeast around here never seen it on store shelf, where did you get it???

  Phil

Phil,

Thanks for your kind words about the pizza I made.  :) I still donít know how this pizza compares to a real Pizzarium pizza, because I have never tasted one.  I wish someone that has tasted a real Pizzarium pizza could explain what they are like in terms of the taste of the crust, how the bottom of the crust looks and also if the crumb springs.  I was going to take a video yesterday of some slices and how the crust just sprung back when pushing on it, but never took the video because I became busy trying to make pizzas at market.  This pizza was light and had a different taste in the crust and crumb than any other pizza I made before, but that doesnít make me sure I am still where I need to be. 

Any kind of details you want, I will be glad to post.  Just ask me any questions and I will try to respond the best I can.  I think the real Pizzarium pizzas do use a starter and not cake yeast.  I donít know if other places that do make pizza in teglia just use cake yeast or not.  I just played around with using cake yeast to see what the results would be.  I donít know, but think the major part of why this recent pizza turned out better was the mix time, the way the flour was incorporated, the small amount of cake yeast added, and the different ways of fermenting and watching the dough.  I still am not sure if I can reproduce the same results again.  The cake yeast I purchased was at a Weis Supermarket near where I live.  It cost 1.35 for the small cake.  I donít know how many supermarkets do carry cake yeast.  A few supermarkets near me do carry cake yeast around the milk, butter, eggs, and other cold items.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #318 on: January 26, 2011, 10:38:06 PM »
Looks great Norma ;D

parallei,

Thanks!  :)  I am letting a few slices in the fridge to try and reheat tomorrow.  I will see how they reheat.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #319 on: January 27, 2011, 08:02:59 AM »
If anyone is interested, this one blog is where I got ideas of how to make pizza in teglia. 

http://profumodilievito.blogspot.com/2009/11/la-pizza-in-teglia-croccante.html

I didnít use the exact ingredients or technique, but did get ideas how this blogger does make pizza in teglia.  He pie also has many irregular holes.  I didnít have the malt, so I just tried without malt.  This bloggers formula is meant to be used in one day.

Hope this helps if anyone wants to try his formula.  I canít convert this recipe into bakerís percent,(because of my bad math skills)  but if anyone can, I would be interested to see what one pie would be in bakerís percent.  In my opinion one of the ways to get this dough to work is getting strength in the dough and maybe proofing as this blogger did.

Norma
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