Author Topic: Pizzarium (Read 91703 times)

foolishpoolish · « **Reply #460 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:27:41 AM »

Nice video of Bonci, thanks John.
I agree, the 00100 pizza does look a bit thicker and the crumb perhaps a little less open than at least some of the Pizzarium photos. I imagine they're still both texturally very light.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #461 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:59:18 PM »

So, Toby - When are you going to cough up your formula/workflow in detail?

John

Matthew · « **Reply #462 on:** February 10, 2011, 01:14:21 PM »

Quote from: foolishpoolish on February 10, 2011, 08:46:10 AM

Katie Parla of http://www.parlafood.com and who recently blogged about Gabriele Bonci and Pizzarium writes about another Pizza al Taglio joint in Rome called 00100:
http://www.parlafood.com/00100-testaccio/
http://www.parlafood.com/rome-pizza-stefano-callegari-gabriele-bonci/

The official 00100 website offers a few more details about their pizza (including that their dough is made from 00 flour from soft wheat and leavened with a Starter Culture from Gabriele Bonci as well as 0.2% yeast):

http://00100pizza.com

Here's another blogger who visited 00100:
http://senzapanna.blogspot.com/2008/06/00100-pizza.html

And here's a youtube video/interview which has a few shots of the dough being shaped for their delicious looking "Trapizzini" (stuffed sandwiches made from their pizza bianca dough):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Drhao0BHtk

Toby,
Thanks for the great links, the Trapizzini look crazy good. He does do things slightly different than Gabriele; lower hydration, a combination of starter & IDY, & a 30 minute pan proof prior to baking. His bake time on the trapizzini is 10 minutes, so he's working with a pretty hot oven. He doesn't mention the use any oil in his formula either.

For all interested I translated the formula:

He uses 2kg of dough/teglia.

All amounts are based on 1L of water.
1L water
1.3kg 00 flour
2% salt
5% starter
1-2g of IDY

The dough is fermented for 24 hours.

Matt

Matthew · « **Reply #463 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:11:33 PM »

Quote from: norma427 on February 10, 2011, 11:08:42 AM

John,

Thanks for posting that video. How do you think Gabriele gets the dough so strengthened in the mixer, without fermenting it more? Gabriele dough when it is placed on the bench looked like my dough, but how can I get it to look that way without all the steps I took. Do you have any ideas? I can’t understand Italian. Do you know what Gabriele was saying?

This is Gabriele Bonci’s blog, although it doesn’t tell anything about his pizza in teglia, I think it is interesting how interested he is in food.

http://adessomidiverto.blogspot.com/

From another blogger, it sounds Gabriele use barley malt in his dough. Does anyone else think he does?

http://italianlinguini.blogspot.com/2010/10/4-hours-pizzarium.html

Norma

Norma,
He has a 2 speed spiral mixer & does a double hydration. My guess is 10 minutes on speed 1 & an additional 10 minutes on the 2nd speed. I am also guessing that he does a series of regineri to help dry out the dough.
The blogger is referring to a pizza that Gabriele made using 100% farro dough. If you used a translator, farro likely translated to barley. Farro is a popular italian grain & is closer to spelt than to barley.

Matt

norma427 · « **Reply #464 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:01:53 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on February 10, 2011, 04:11:33 PM

Norma,
He has a 2 speed spiral mixer & does a double hydration. My guess is 10 minutes on speed 1 & an additional 10 minutes on the 2nd speed. I am also guessing that he does a series of regineri to help dry out the dough.
The blogger is referring to a pizza that Gabriele made using 100% farro dough. If you used a translator, farro likely translated to barley. Farro is a popular italian grain & is closer to spelt than to barley.

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the help on what kind of mixing Gabriele might do and about the barley. I also watched the videos on Pizzarium Facebook links, and couldn’t understand them, but saw he talked about making different kinds of yeasts, how to make gluten-free pizza and other videos. I only can wish I could understand Italian.

Norma

sherm1018 · « **Reply #465 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:46:26 PM »

Okay...

Norma regarding your suggestion I think this is the forum you were talking about?

As I told you I am new to PM forum..... but just as "crazy nuts" for pizza as it seems most here are

I will make my first attempt at a high-hydration dough this weekend and will share the outcome with everybody. From what I have seen and read there's a LOT of pressure for a newbie.... but I've got to start sometime.

Hope everyone has a great weekend..... here in Austin it's finally going to thaw out this weekend.
Can't believe it, I moved from Chicago 10 years ago to escape the snow and cold and we've had both down here this week!!
Must be Global Warming

Bests,
Scott aka "sherm"

doughboy55 · « **Reply #466 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:09:09 PM »

Quote from: sherm1018 on February 11, 2011, 12:46:26 PM

Must be Global Warming

Good luck, and i think you mean global FREEZING!

norma427 · « **Reply #467 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:40:47 PM »

Quote from: sherm1018 on February 11, 2011, 12:46:26 PM

Okay...

Norma regarding your suggestion I think this is the forum you were talking about?

As I told you I am new to PM forum..... but just as "crazy nuts" for pizza as it seems most here are

I will make my first attempt at a high-hydration dough this weekend and will share the outcome with everybody. From what I have seen and read there's a LOT of pressure for a newbie.... but I've got to start sometime.

Hope everyone has a great weekend..... here in Austin it's finally going to thaw out this weekend.
Can't believe it, I moved from Chicago 10 years ago to escape the snow and cold and we've had both down here this week!!
Must be Global Warming

Bests,
Scott aka "sherm"

Scott,

Sorry, if you or anyone else read what I posted, but I am editing my post. I was in a hurry to get to market to make my poolish and didn’t get to answer you right. I meant to post, did you ever make a high hydration dough before? If you need any help maybe other members or I can help you. Do you have a formula, special flour or flours you want to use, pans, or others things you want to try?

This is the thread I was telling you about. I know you did PM me about making this style of pizza, but I really don’t understand all what goes into this type of pizza either. I don’t even know if I can repeat the same results again.

Maybe you can learn with the rest of us that are interested in making this style of pizza.

Best of luck and if you need any help, just ask.

Norma

Matthew · « **Reply #468 on:** February 12, 2011, 06:45:13 AM »

For anyone interested, there is a short video at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10884.new.html#new showing the dough being mixed in my modified spiral mixer.

Matt

Matthew · « **Reply #469 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:20:08 AM »

The final dough.
(65% organic hard spring wheat, 25% semola rimacinata di grano duro, 10% Caputo Red)

Picture 1 after a 30 minute riposo
Picture 2 after a rigenero
Picture 3 ready for bed!

norma427 · « **Reply #470 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:32:44 AM »

Matt,

I saw your video and your dough looks great!

I really like how your modified spiral mixer mixes the dough.

Norma

Matthew · « **Reply #471 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:54:37 AM »

Quote from: norma427 on February 12, 2011, 07:32:44 AM

Matt,

I saw your video and your dough looks great! I really like how your modified spiral mixer mixes the dough.

Norma

Thanks Norma. This dough was really nicely developed. I took quite a few liberties with this batch. In addition to EVOO, I added a little bit of "strutto" (lard) to the mix to see what it does to the texture, I also added a couple of tablespoons of starter & a little malt syrup.

Matt

doughboy55 · « **Reply #472 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:30:28 PM »

I have a question for everyone, how long would you recommend for a cold ferment for this high hydration dough? Will 48 hours be to long or will it be fine? I am using 1%CY, the dough wouldn't over ferment will it?
Also If i wanted to make the dough so it will be ready in 24 hours what would you recommend I adjust the yeast too?
Bakers Percents are
flour:100%
water:80%
CY:1%
Salt:2.5%
oil:3%
total: 186.5%

Jose L. Piedra · « **Reply #473 on:** February 12, 2011, 10:17:47 PM »

I personally do 48 hours with .25% IDY and 2% salt. I have no experience with CY, but 1% of it with 2.5% salt doesn't sound excessive, and certainly not so for 24 hours.

JLP

norma427 · « **Reply #474 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:04:51 AM »

When searching for some other videos yesterday, I came across these two videos. They aren’t from Pizzarium, but I found the first video interesting in how light (in the crumb) this pizza on this persons Youtube video was. In the video near the end it shows a slice on the scales and the slice only weighs 70 grams. Can anyone translate what formula this person used?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87nfFNSx4N8" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87nfFNSx4N8</a>

The second video show this same person making this type of pizza, but it doesn’t look as light and airy. Under the description, this it does give the formula for what he used.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfdM48x_oWw" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfdM48x_oWw</a>

Italian to English translation from my Google translator if it is right.

A beautiful red pizza made with the chariot (polish) and 6 hours for rising ... Genovese recipe naturally without mozzarella.

Ingredients:
400 grams of flour 00 (preferably Manitoba)
300 liters of water
if you do not have the cart you can use 5 g of yeast
10 grams of sea salt
200 g of peeled
extra virgin olive q / b
fresh basil q / b
Bake at 300 degrees on baking stone for the time necessary

Norma

Jose L. Piedra · « **Reply #475 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:48:20 AM »

For the first vid:

The biga: 15 gr. raisins soaked for 24 hours in 150 gr. water, risen for another 24 hours with 100 gr. 00 flour. [I have no idea what that's supposed to be about -JLP]

40 gr. biga, 400 gr. 00 flour, 10 gr. salt, 300 deciliters water. Let rise for 2 hours.

Pour onto lightly oiled pan and let rise for an hour at 25-30 c.

Spread with your fingertips to the edges of the pan without stretching or tearing the dough.

Rise a third time (1 hour) and top with red onions.

Bake at 230 c. for as long as necessary.

Less than 1 cm. thick.

Weight of a 15 x 10 cm. slice...70 gr.

norma427 · « **Reply #476 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:01:29 AM »

Quote from: Jose L. Piedra on February 13, 2011, 09:48:20 AM

For the first vid:

The biga: 15 gr. raisins soaked for 24 hours in 150 gr. water, risen for another 24 hours with 100 gr. 00 flour. [I have no idea what that's supposed to be about -JLP]

40 gr. biga, 400 gr. 00 flour, 10 gr. salt, 300 deciliters water. Let rise for 2 hours.

Pour onto lightly oiled pan and let rise for an hour at 25-30 c.

Spread with your fingertips to the edges of the pan without stretching or tearing the dough.

Rise a third time (1 hour) and top with red onions.

Bake at 230 c. for as long as necessary.

Less than 1 cm. thick.

Weight of a 15 x 10 cm. slice...70 gr.

Jose,

Thanks so much for doing the translation.

It's interesting that formula didn't have any oil and looked so light.

Norma

Jose L. Piedra · « **Reply #477 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:39:36 AM »

Norma,

You can get unbelievably light crusts by using a long pan rise, as that guy did, although it comes at the cost of the openness of the crumb. I've made many tomato pizzas where I went even further and did the entire rise in the pan, stretching the dough out periodically over the course of 4-6 hours or so. The end result was so light that I could eat an entire 13 x 9.5 inch pie by myself and feel hungry again within two hours. However, the crumb was like whitebread in structure and tasted/ate accordingly.

Would you (or anybody else) be able to explain the whys and wherefores of soaking raisins in water for the biga? Is it a way of exploiting the wild yeast that is always found on grapes?

JLP

foolishpoolish · « **Reply #478 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:01:05 AM »

Quote from: Jose L. Piedra on February 13, 2011, 10:39:36 AM

Norma,

You can get unbelievably light crusts by using a long pan rise, as that guy did, although it comes at the cost of the openness of the crumb. I've made many tomato pizzas where I went even further and did the entire rise in the pan, stretching the dough out periodically over the course of 4-6 hours or so. The end result was so light that I could eat an entire 13 x 9.5 inch pie by myself and feel hungry again within two hours. However, the crumb was like whitebread in structure and tasted/ate accordingly.

Would you (or anybody else) be able to explain the whys and wherefores of soaking raisins in water for the biga? Is it a way of exploiting the wild yeast that is always found on grapes?

JLP

There was some discussion about it about 2 years ago on "the fresh loaf" but I think you can find at least some of the information here:

http://originalyeast.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-make-yeast-water.html

It is natural leavening courtesy of "grape" (or raisin) yeast. My guess would be a strain of Dekkera bruxellensis.

Additional: There's also some discussion and examples of starters of raisin provenance on this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10702.0.html

Jose L. Piedra · « **Reply #479 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:28:35 AM »

Thanks for the linkage. It makes perfect sense- it's how wine was invented after all.

JLP