Author Topic: Pizzarium  (Read 144349 times)

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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1040 on: April 04, 2012, 06:29:32 AM »
The Game of the Pizza. The Magnificent Recipes of the King of Pizza  (or pretty close)

is on its way!

Mine too! It was only 4 euro extra for expedited shipping, so it should ship today and be here by the middle of next week.

John


Offline JimmyG

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1041 on: April 04, 2012, 08:55:48 AM »
Giulio and Paul,
I must have missed your posts while I was gone but two truly fantastic looking pies. I don't think Bonci could have made one any better.

Mathew,
Thanks for the heads up about the book! With all the press he has been receiving, I was wondering how long it would take before Bonci had a book to his name.

Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline giulio.fabris

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1042 on: April 05, 2012, 10:45:32 AM »
His book will be out tomorrow

Thanks for the info Matthew, I had missed the publishing date!

Offline giulio.fabris

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1043 on: April 05, 2012, 10:48:32 AM »
Giulio and Paul,
I must have missed your posts while I was gone but two truly fantastic looking pies. I don't think Bonci could have made one any better.

Mathew,
Thanks for the heads up about the book! With all the press he has been receiving, I was wondering how long it would take before Bonci had a book to his name.

Jim

Thanks Jim!

I expect a pizza rush when the book arrives.  :-D

Offline Matthew

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1044 on: April 05, 2012, 12:09:21 PM »
No problem guys


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1045 on: April 05, 2012, 08:36:56 PM »
Paul - I am hoping my rusty Italian will get me through the texts. At least we can easily comprehend the recipes, since they will be easily identifiable with grams and obvious ingredients. Maybe a few of us can translate some of the recipes here - Peter might have to chime in about copyright though.

John,

From the forum's perspective, the main prohibition is that members not post copyrighted material of others on the forum. I have seen a few instances where entire books were put on the web, with potential copyright infringement implications, but that is not about to happen on this forum. More likely is the posting of copyrighted articles of others. Steve, the owner of this forum, has instructed the Moderators to remove any such articles if they are posted on the forum. However, links can be provided to copyrighted material hosted by others on other websites.

On the specific matter of recipes, it is extremely difficult to protect recipes, although the books within which they appear can, and almost always are copyrighted. Most cookbook authors, and especially those who are widely recognized, realize that recipes that appear in their cookbooks will eventually be posted on the Internet, and in some cases even go viral, and that there is very little that they can do about it, since the miscreants are almost always individuals. The authors themselves might even let loose a free recipe or two in order to promote their cookbooks, usually through articles and interviews where they can hype their cookbooks. Also, increasingly, cookbooks form a piece of a much larger "package". For example, celebrity chefs not only write cookbooks but they might also have cable shows, appear as guests on other outlets, teach, have their own blogs and presences on Facebook and Twitter, own or invest in food related businesses, and have licensing, marketing and merchandizing arrangements to sell all kinds of products bearing their names and images. Think Mario Batali, Wolfgang Puck, Guy Fieri and Emeril Lagasse, just to name some of the best at this sort of thing. I doubt that they are losing sleep that their recipes are all over the Internet. Their objective is to get as many eyeballs on them and their products as possible. These opportunities themselves usually translate into higher book sales.

Peter


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1046 on: April 06, 2012, 05:17:10 PM »
It's here! I will post more later tomorrow after I have read through it.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1047 on: April 07, 2012, 02:19:35 PM »
Some initial thoughts...

I am still going through the book, finding words that I need to translate, but overall I just love this book. There is a wealth of information, and some of our experiments have been dead on in terms of technique, workflow, and percentages. There is even a generous amount of information on creating your own "madre", which takes 10 days and uses yogurt for the inoculation.

The book is broken down into 3 different doughs:

1. a white flour (type 0 Buratto) using dry yeast,
2. a "mixed" flour (50% type 2 Buratto, 25% white flour, and 25% whole spelt [farina di farro integrale]) using dry yeast OR natural starter,
3. a 50% spelt, 50% whole spelt using only natural yeast natural.

All the recipes reference one of these doughs as a base. The first two are 70% hydration and the third is 80%. All use 4% oil and 2% salt. The natural yeast is used at 10% and the third dough using 15%, the dry at .7% and .4%. The book has some amazing photography of the crumb structure of each of the 3 dough types, the second one being the most open. They are all developed by hand.

I love that NONE of the pictures of crumb show an even height - they are decidedly uneven with lots of peaks and valleys. I get the sense that this is a good thing - pockets for the filling to fall into.

I will post more as I get through. I have never read an entire book in Italian, so it is going slowly to make sure I am understanding things correctly.

John
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 10:59:34 AM by dellavecchia »

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1048 on: April 07, 2012, 06:45:27 PM »
John,
Thanks for posting your interpretations of Bonci's books. I do have a question I hope you can clarify. In the third formula, is Bonci referring to a 50/50 mix of bolted (white) spelt and integrale spelt or 50% buratto and 50% integrale spelt?
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline giulio.fabris

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1049 on: April 07, 2012, 07:06:45 PM »
John,
Thanks for posting your interpretations of Bonci's books. I do have a question I hope you can clarify. In the third formula, is Bonci referring to a 50/50 mix of bolted (white) spelt and integrale spelt or 50% buratto and 50% integrale spelt?

The third formula indicates 50% Buratto spelt and 50% whole spelt if I'm not mistaken.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 07:13:31 PM by giulio.fabris »


Offline giulio.fabris

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1050 on: April 07, 2012, 07:13:17 PM »
John, You wrote a nice "first look" summary.
I bought the book yesterday and I was glad to see that - workflow wise - we are quite close.
The most interesting parts for me personally are the topping combos, some of which are awesome (as you noticed, great pics) and unexpected.

I'm going to look for whole spelt next week and try the third recipe with dry yeast.

Some initial thoughts...

I am still going through the book, finding words that I need to translate, but overall I just love this book. There is a wealth of information, and some of our experiments have been dead on in terms of technique, workflow, and percentages. There is even a generous amount of information on creating your own "madre", which takes 10 days and uses yogurt for the inoculation.

The book is broken down into 3 different doughs:

1. a white flour (type 0 Buratto) using dry yeast,
2. a "mixed" flour (50% type 2 Buratto, 25% white flour, and 25% whole spelt [farina di farro integrale]) using a combination of dry yeast and natural starter,
3. a 50% spelt, 50% whole spelt using only natural yeast natural.

All the recipes reference one of these doughs as a base. The first two are 70% hydration and the third is 80%. All use 4% oil and 2% salt. The natural yeast is used at 10%, the dry at .7% and .4%, with the third dough using 15%. The book has some amazing photography of the crumb structure of each of the 3 dough types, the second one being the most open. They are all developed by hand.

I love that NONE of the pictures of crumb show an even height - they are decidedly uneven with lots of peaks and valleys. I get the sense that this is a good thing - pockets for the filling to fall into.

I will post more as I get through. I have never read an entire book in Italian, so it is going slowly to make sure I am understanding things correctly.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1051 on: April 08, 2012, 06:44:31 AM »
John,
Thanks for posting your interpretations of Bonci's books. I do have a question I hope you can clarify. In the third formula, is Bonci referring to a 50/50 mix of bolted (white) spelt and integrale spelt or 50% buratto and 50% integrale spelt?

Jimmy - Giulio is correct, 50% farro Buratto and 50% farro integrale. I just ordered some whole wheat spelt from my local farm, and I want to try this one out with the Marino spelt.

Giulio - Yes, the topping combinations are astounding.

John

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1052 on: April 08, 2012, 11:59:48 AM »
John and Giulio,
I was looking over on the M.Mulino website and it says that they are producing a white (I am guessing this is the Buratto) spelt and a whole wheat spelt (integrale) http://www.mulinomarino.it/eng/prodotti.php. I am kind of curious now how similar M Mulino's white spelt is to the one produced by Vita Spelt www.natureslegacyforlife.com/shopping/flours/non-organic-white-spelt-flour-5lbs/.

John,
I have not been back to Williams Sonoma in a while, can your tell from the packaging whether they are selling the Buratto spelt or the integrale?
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline giulio.fabris

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1053 on: April 08, 2012, 12:41:55 PM »
Jimmy, I'm not sure because I haven't bought spelt flour from Molino Marino yet.

John and Giulio,
I was looking over on the M.Mulino website and it says that they are producing a white (I am guessing this is the Buratto) spelt and a whole wheat spelt (integrale) http://www.mulinomarino.it/eng/prodotti.php. I am kind of curious now how similar M Mulino's white spelt is to the one produced by Vita Spelt www.natureslegacyforlife.com/shopping/flours/non-organic-white-spelt-flour-5lbs/.

John,
I have not been back to Williams Sonoma in a while, can your tell from the packaging whether they are selling the Buratto spelt or the integrale?

cornicione54

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1054 on: April 08, 2012, 02:48:11 PM »
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but a small point regarding "Farro" which can variously refer to Emmer or Spelt (or even Einkorn/Enkir). My understanding is that Farro usually refers to Emmer.

Confusingly, under "Farro", the Mulino Marino (italian) website names three grains: "Dal punto di vista botanico appartiene al genere Triticum come il frumento, prende infatti il nome scientifico di T.monococcum, T.dicoccum, T.spelta." which refer to Einkorn, Emmer and Spelt respectively but the documentation does not specify which grain is used in their Farro Integrale or Bianco products.

Since Einkorn is referred to as L'Enkir elsewhere on their website, I would guess that narrows the possibilities down to Emmer or Spelt. Mulino Marino lists its source of Farro as "Centro-Sud Italia" which would be consistent with the areas known for growing Emmer. However the Williams-Sonoma Mulino Marino range carries a product labelled "Spelt".

To further confuse the situation: not all Spelts are equal. While Spelt was always a hybrid grain, I've heard that some  modern Spelt hybrids are different to more ancient hybrids/cultivars and are closer (both genetically and flour properties) to modern Wheat than "ancient Spelt".

« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 03:07:41 PM by cornicione54 »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1055 on: April 08, 2012, 03:25:40 PM »
John,
I have not been back to Williams Sonoma in a while, can your tell from the packaging whether they are selling the Buratto spelt or the integrale?

Jimmy - It is not designated as Buratto or integrale - it just says "farina di farro" - but I am pretty sure it is not whole wheat.

John

Offline Greenline

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1056 on: April 10, 2012, 01:10:39 PM »
Since Einkorn is referred to as L'Enkir elsewhere on their website, I would guess that narrows the possibilities down to Emmer or Spelt.

I've mailed the same question a while ago (end of 2011) to them and the answer was that Mulino Marino does not sell Emmer, only Spelt and Enkir (i.e. T. monococcum).

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1057 on: April 10, 2012, 06:52:55 PM »
Trying to figure out the TF of the directed dough ball size in the book, and I am coming up with .082 - which is FAR less than what we have been doing here in the thread. He has 350g dough balls and does not specifically say what size pan to use. The one pictured that he puts the dough into is probably 13.75 x 11 inches. Earlier in the book he talks about a standard size pan being 30 x 60 cm, but that can't be right. I just can't see using that small a TF - or could it be correct?

John

Offline Matthew

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1058 on: April 10, 2012, 07:11:23 PM »
John,
I'm pretty sure that it's 30 x 35. 

Matt

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Pizzarium
« Reply #1059 on: April 10, 2012, 07:17:21 PM »
John,
That is one of the problems I have encountered with his recipes, not specific enough. Personally, I think that TF is pretty far off from what I have seen. In fact, judging by the videos and crumb shots it appears that he and his staff mostly wing the shaping process and go solely by look and feel, not worrying as much about thickness.
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.