Author Topic: A real deep dish video  (Read 48972 times)

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loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2010, 10:59:26 AM »
I did some other adjustments on the oil content figuring another possibility.  If they went with a 5 qts. corn oil to 1 qt. olive oil ratio that would result in a formula that looks like this:

AP Flour    100%
water         45.88
corn oil       19.12
olive oil         3.80
IDY                .5

A thickness factor of .121 would require a 12 oz. dough ball for a 9" deep dish pizza.

Loo
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BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2010, 11:16:27 AM »
Well, I decided to give this a try yesterday and put together the dough in the morning and baked it in the early evening after letting the dough rise for 6 or 7 hours, while knocking it down several times after it rose.  I used the deep dish calculation tool and approximated Loo's proportions in Reply #50 for a 9" deep dish, and roughly 1.5" up the side, 1.5% bowl residue, and TF of .1218.  While I was tempted to change the recipe in a few respects (like adding salt, sugar, etc.), I stayed true to form and just put in the ingredients talked of here.  Here's the formulation:

Flour (100%):  201.01 g  |  7.09 oz | 0.44 lbs
Water (46%):  92.46 g  |  3.26 oz | 0.2 lbs
ADY (1%):  2.01 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.53 tsp | 0.18 tbsp
Olive Oil (2%):  4.02 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Corn Oil (21%):  42.21 g | 1.49 oz | 0.09 lbs | 9.38 tsp | 3.13 tbsp
Total (170%): 341.71 g | 12.05 oz | 0.75 lbs | TF = 0.1218

I used 5 1/2 slices of mozzarella cheese (which per package amounted to .7272 oz per slice) and 2 1/2 slices (pulled apart in pieces) of provolone (.666 oz per slice) for a total of 5.66 oz. of cheese.  Also I used ADY instead of IDY.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:13:22 PM by BTB »

BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2010, 11:18:55 AM »
I baked it for approx. 25 to 30 minutes on a low rack level at 475 degrees F, altho for the last 10 minutes I put my oven's convection feature (i.e. hot fan) on to brown the top of the pizza a bit.  One without a convection feature can accomplish the same by raising the pizza to a high rack in their oven for the last 10 minutes or so of baking time.

The result was an excellent, delicious tasting pizza.  One of the best (but without semolina and some things that I think enhance a pizza in some respects). The color remained a light golden and next time I will either bake a little longer or add something like a little sugar to darken the crust just a bit.  Am anxious to hear of any others thoughts and trials with this.
--BTB

« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:06:41 PM by BTB »

loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2010, 11:43:24 AM »
That looks great!!!  I'm making this for dinner tonight!  Can't wait!

Actually, it looks like you went with the formula in reply #48.

Loo
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BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2010, 12:11:41 PM »
Opps, you're right Loo, it was #48.   Good luck with your trial.

BTW, I grabbed the wrong deep dish pan for this resulting in my using a good, but different dimension pan.  It is a tapered one with 8 1/2" on the bottom and 9 1/4" on the top.  It worked fine but I found myself using only about 85% of the dough and I made it much thinner than I have in the past.  In any event, the result was great.

--BTB
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:22:17 PM by BTB »

Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2010, 12:18:42 PM »
BTB,

Did your version remind you of a "real" Malnati's pizza? And did you note how much sauce you used, by weight?

Peter
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:22:10 PM by Pete-zza »

BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2010, 12:38:06 PM »
Did your version remind you of a "real" Malnati's pizza?
Much closer . . .  but still a way's away. (wonder if they don't use some special flour)

Quote

And did you note how much sauce you used, by weight?
You know, I forgot that again.  And I kept my digital scale out and intended to do so, but . . . .   I was making another pizza (thin cracker crust) at the same time, so I got lost in doing some things.  As I put both drained 6 in 1 and some good small diced tomatoes on, I estimate that it was from 9 to 11 ounces of sauce in total (I like it a little on the heavier side).
--BTB

Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2010, 01:11:37 PM »
BTB,

I wonder whether Malnati's uses flours from Ceresota/Hecker. Those are classic flours in the Chicago area, with a higher protein content than other all-purpose flours.

Peter

loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2010, 03:48:51 PM »
Peter,

I wonder if they don't use a H & R flour.  That would be a lower protein would it not?  I guess it depends on who's milling it.

Loo
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Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2010, 04:11:58 PM »
Loo,

It's hard to say. H&R flours can vary quite a bit in terms of quality and specs. For example, the protein content of the General Mills H&R flour as given in their specs at http://www.gmflour.com/gmflour/Flour_SpecSheet/HR%20%20Bleached14314.DOC is 11% +/- 1%. If I recall correctly from the video, the flour bags do not contain a lot of writing, or maybe the bags were stacked back side up. Many chains, even some of the smaller regional chains, have flours milled especially for them or they have the flours, or even standard flours, put into essentially unmarked bags.

Peter

FLAVORMAN

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2010, 06:53:26 PM »
You guys are unbelievable..who cares about Lou's? most of your recipes are awesome and would make a ton of money on the retail market. I have to agree with last comment as I know for a fact. The flour is blended in Indiana per Lou's specs...no joke..the bags are unmarked. Great job on the investigation of all the containers ect.  I will try one with the above comments and see if is better than BTB with Semolina...this is more fun than  ever...

DKM

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2010, 09:06:47 PM »
I hope to make my pizza tomorrow.
I'm on too many of these boards

loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2010, 01:44:28 PM »
Here it is!  Trying to stay as true to what we saw in the video but making a 12" pizza.  Using formula in reply #44.  Ingredients were added to mixer in same order:  IDY, water, oil blend, flour.  Kneaded on mix speed for 3 minutes.  I made a batch big enough for my 12" deep dish and an 11" thin with the same dough for my little girls.  Gave it a bulk rise for two hours and divided for another rise of two hours.  551g dough ball, 11 7/8 oz. of low moisture, part-skim mozzarella cheese, 16 3/4 oz. of sauce (I think a little too much).  No seasoning to the sauce and that was the down side to the pie.  I like my salt, pepper, EVOO, and touch of fresh garlic in it.  Topped with some grated parm.  Baked at 475 for 22 min. on center rack.

It was good but not great.  The crust was really good but for our home ovens I think the really short knead helps it from getting bready.  Mine wasn't but I could tell it was on the brink after taking the first bite.  I wanted to make a cheese pizza to get a taste of the basics of it.  I missed having some sausage or pepperoni on it.  I really prefer the higher olive oil amount that I've been using for several years to this low amount.
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loowaters

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2010, 02:02:24 PM »
Above, I mentioned short knead time might be preferable with our ovens but the bigger factor is probably the type(s) of flour available to us.  Also, I want to note that on the pic of the individual slice, there's more parm and some oregano sprinkled on.  The only other thing that I can think of right now is that I didn't use any oil or Crisco on the bottom of the pan.  I just forgot.

Loo
Using pizza to expand my waistline since 1969!

Randy

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2010, 04:47:01 PM »
Thank goodness I have some CDD in the freezer.  Y'all are killing me with these delicious pictures.

Sometime ago I tried a low olive oil pizza, I thought the flavor fell off as well.  That is when I tried Loo's version and thought the flavor was excellent.

You know in all likelihood y'all now make better CDD pizzas than most places in Chicago.

DKM

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2010, 11:43:58 PM »
Events in life have postponed mine until Saturday
I'm on too many of these boards

goosen1

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2010, 01:41:56 AM »
Events in life have postponed mine until Saturday

I know how you feel... My pizza night is put off for 2 weeks!!!
Arguing with a truckdriver is like wrestling with a pig in the mud.. After a while.... you realize the pig enjoys it!!!!

BTB

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2010, 11:41:34 AM »
Loo, your pizza looked great even if you forgot some coating for the pan (which often happens to me).  Nice crimping on the pizza edges or rim.  One of us has to check their oven temperature, however.  I never can cook a 12" deep dish pizza in 22 minutes.  Usually 30 minutes at a minimum at 475 degrees F and on a low rack for a 12" deep dish.  I'm going to get an oven thermometer this week to check out my oven temperature.

When I'm in Florida for the winter, there isn't much choice at the stores for flour.  Usually just Gold Medal, Pillsbury, and King Arthur, as well as the store "house" brands.  But I've seen Martha White and White Lily lately but have never tried them.  Does any one have any knowledge or experience with those brands to report?

--BTB

Randy

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2010, 02:45:43 PM »
BTB, WhiteLily is a very soft flour more for biscuits, cakes and pie-crust.  Not a good choice for pizza or any yeast bread.  Go to the WhiteLily web site for some great cake recipes.

King Arthur bread flour first then goldmedal Better for Bread second for store bought pizza flour in the South.

Randy

garyd

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2010, 01:49:44 AM »
You know, all of our questions could be answered if one of us who lives in the Chicago area would get a temporary job in the kitchen at a Lou's. While your at it, you could get a job at Uno's and Gino's as well. Someone could make that sacrifice for the good of this group! ; )  I would do it but I live in Denver. : (

I have started using the no-knead method for my DKM and Loo's dough with great results. I use the 1/4th tsp. Instant yeast with a 18 to 20 hour room temp rise followed by a 2 hour rise after punch down. Can't wait to try these new percentages.

BTW, I have one of those pan clamps you see in the video.

Pete-zza

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2010, 09:35:55 AM »
I use the 1/4th tsp. Instant yeast with a 18 to 20 hour room temp rise followed by a 2 hour rise after punch down.

garyd,

Using a very small amount of yeast and a long room-temperature fermentation was behind the thread I started at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.0.html. My emphasis was on a standard type of pizza like a New York or other flat style. I did not think of the application of that method to the deep-dish style but it is good to know that the method works for that style. Can you tell us what the crust is like, with particular reference to crust color, flavor/taste, and texture? And do you intend to use the new set of Malnati clone baker's percents recited in this thread but with much less yeast?

Peter

DKM

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2010, 01:24:47 PM »
You know, all of our questions could be answered if one of us who lives in the Chicago area would get a temporary job in the kitchen at a Lou's. While your at it, you could get a job at Uno's and Gino's as well. Someone could make that sacrifice for the good of this group! ; )  I would do it but I live in Denver. : (

I have started using the no-knead method for my DKM and Loo's dough with great results. I use the 1/4th tsp. Instant yeast with a 18 to 20 hour room temp rise followed by a 2 hour rise after punch down. Can't wait to try these new percentages.

BTW, I have one of those pan clamps you see in the video.

That's not likely to answer a couple of questions.  The oil and flour are most likely unlabeled blends.
I'm on too many of these boards

garyd

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2010, 01:58:59 PM »
That's not likely to answer a couple of questions.  The oil and flour are most likely unlabeled blends.

That's true but it's also possible that the bags of flour and the bucket of oil blend may have the info printed on them. It all depends on how strongly Mark and the other places are trying to hide their recipes. There is a pizza place here in Denver that has been voted best and is the current critics darling (I don't agree). They openly stack their flour bags as part of their decor and the label is fully visible with type of flour and protein percentages. My cousin used to own on of Denver's most well know Italian restaurants and all their bulk supplies had labels on them from the restaurant supply. But they weren't trying to hide their recipe either. I was being a little facetious but it would be tempting to get a job at these places to try to find out the true recipes.

There is a local pizza chain here that makes up all their dough and sauce formulations in a commissary by it's family members so the employees in their various restaurants have no idea what is exactly in the dough and sauce.

garyd

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2010, 02:42:09 PM »
garyd,

Using a very small amount of yeast and a long room-temperature fermentation was behind the thread I started at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7225.0.html. My emphasis was on a standard type of pizza like a New York or other flat style. I did not think of the application of that method to the deep-dish style but it is good to know that the method works for that style. Can you tell us what the crust is like, with particular reference to crust color, flavor/taste, and texture? And do you intend to use the new set of Malnati clone baker's percents recited in this thread but with much less yeast?

Peter

I have been experimenting with the no-knead doughs ever since I saw Mark Bittman's Jim Lahey video a couple years ago. Besides making the bread, I have used it for neapolitan pizza, New York style and Chicago. I've tried the high hydration for Chicago style and it came out too bready. But it works with DKM's and Loo's recipes and for me it yields a lighter crumb and a more textured crust with hints of sourdough. The crust color is lighter. I wouldn't say it's necessarily better. I would say it's different in a good way. Yes I am going to try it with the updated recipes.

garyd

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Re: A real deep dish video
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2010, 02:24:52 AM »
I made my first no knead deep dish pizza using the new formulation. I used the formulation in reply #48 for a 9 inch pie. I used 75% KAAP flour and 25% Granoro Semolina durum flour and Eldorado Springs water. I mixed the flour, yeast, water and oil only till there was no more dry flour visible, (about 1 minute). I then let it raise at room temperature for about 16 hours. About 2 hours before baking I punched it down and let it have a second rise. I used mild provolone for cheese and Muir Glen peeled ground tomatoes, King Sooper's brand mild Italian sausage and Mario Batali three cheese blend to top the sauce plus oregano.

It came out great. Best deep dish I've made so far.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 02:26:43 AM by garyd »