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Author Topic: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone  (Read 6446 times)

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Offline 333meg

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #100 on: November 03, 2017, 08:42:55 PM »
A pizza sombrero if you will! I was laughing because of course...I've been there.
Pursuing pizza has put me into an airplane, in a car and on road trips of hundreds of miles...

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2017, 12:37:04 PM »
Just catching up in this thread, a lot of nice work in here Bob! Have you settled in on a go-to sauce yet? It's the hardest part of the pizza process for me.

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2017, 07:24:19 PM »
Thanks - I struggle with the sauce as well and am still working on it.  I'd like to come up with something that is both rich and complex, but without adding excessive oil/fat.  I've been playing around with roasting onions separately, then letting them marinate in my tomato sauce for several days.  Definitely a work in progress....


Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2017, 11:06:58 PM »
11/5 Dough

410 g Flour (90% bread flour, 10% semolina)
184 g Water (45%)
6 g IDY
6 g Salt
25 g Crisco (6%)
8 g Low diastatic malt powder
4 g Dry milk powder
1/16 teaspoon garlic powder
1/16 teaspoon onion powder

Dough Prep
6 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 3.5 days.  Well docked.

Sauce
Cento crushed tomatoes, roasted onion, 2 TBSP vodka, .5 tsp bacon grease,  oregano, , salt, sugar.

Cheese
Carfagna's Smoked Provolone, Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, Trader Joe's 4 cheese blend, grated romano

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 6-7 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
I was excited to find smoked provolone behind the deli counter at Carfagna's, the Italian grocery where I usually buy my pepperoni.  I also tried simmering my regular sauce with vodka and bacon grease, inspired from an article I found on Allrecipies:

http://dish.allrecipes.com/why-is-vodka-tomato-sauce-so-dang-good/

The first pizza was just pep, all provolone.  The cheese seemed pretty oily when melted and the added smoke flavor didn't wow me.

The second pizza was pep, onion, banana peppers, extra sauce + all of the cheeses mentioned above.  I liked this cheese combination more - simply for how it melted (less oily).

The sauce was just ok.  I don't think the vodka or bacon grease added anything meaningful.  The roasted onion was good, but the sauce still needs more punch.

Offline 333meg

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2017, 03:32:01 PM »
Bob, You have really improved a lot, your pies are looking great! Your experiments are fun to follow along with. It seems like I should have tired the smoked provolone from Carfagna's at some point but I have no memory of it for some reason. I went back through my notes and there is no mention of it, so I'll get some on my next trip up to Cbus. Thanks for your write-ups.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 03:39:26 PM by 333meg »
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Offline tedcholl

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2017, 05:00:01 PM »
Hi Bob,

Sorry to hear that the smoked provolone didn't work out.  The one I use loses all of the smoked flavor once cooked and it is only slightly more greasy than unsmoked.

I'll share how I make my sauce in case you would like to try it.   I like my sauce with more spices then what I normally see suggested.

I use the 13.76 oz Cirio Italian crushed tomatos with Basil - they come in a box.  These were highly rated by Cook's Illustrated magazine.
I add 2 tsp of oregano and 1.5 tsp of basil, and then add a heavy sprinkling of onion powder and a light sprinkling of garlic powder.   I also sometimes add some dried red pepper flakes.

Another thing I do which I really like is sprinkle over top of the finished, uncooked pizza the Pizza Seasoning made my King Arthur.   It lists onion, garlic, spices, and salt as the ingredients.   (spices seem to include basil, oregano, some red pepper)

Having those spices on top when you bite into the pizza adds some extra zing and flavor in my opinion.

Enjoy following you and your journey, thanks for sharing and best wishes.

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #106 on: November 16, 2017, 08:30:50 PM »
Thanks Meg!  My last Carfagna's visit was the first time I found the smoked prov. behind the deli counter (i.e. they would slice it for me).  I like the flavor  and have been eating it by the slice, however the subtle flavor benefit was overshadowed by it's oiliness in melted form.  I'm curious to hear your opinion of it if you ever come across it.


Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2017, 08:35:35 PM »
Ted - I'm always open to suggestion and will happily try out your sauce.  I was *this* close to buying a jar of Carfagna's pizza sauce, but decided it's much more fun to experiment on my own (and with the help of others).  Thanks again!

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #108 on: November 23, 2017, 11:24:16 PM »
I've been slacking on the pizza making front lately, however my lovely wife signed us up for a couple of pizza related activities around Columbus.

1.  Pizza School
There's a place in North Columbus that hosts Chef led cooking classes, including pizza.
https://savoir-cooking.com

Chef Mike guided our class through making pizza from start to finish.  While I like to think I've gotten pretty good at slinging pies, watching a trained professional first-hand reminds me that I am not one of those.  ;)  The pizza was good (yes - mine was the ugly one) and I picked up some good tips on hand kneading and sauce making.  Highly recommend for those near Columbus.  We plan to return for more classes.

2.  Pizza and Beer Tour
https://columbusbrewadventures.com/pitchers-pizza-tour/

I had no idea such a thing existed here.  The tour stopped at four different bars/pizza joints (Meister's, Iacono's, Mikey's Late night slice, Hound Dog's) and filled us with pizza and Ohio made beer. Our tour guide provided history of both the brewery and the pizza at each stop.  I was absolutely stuffed by the end of the tour.   I should also note that I was shocked at the difference between Iacono's and Tommy's.  Tommy's is still #1 in my book.

3. Tommy's - extra sauce
I had the bright idea to order a pizza with extra sauce to help get a better sense of which direction to take my own.  In short - their sauce is somewhat bitter from an abundance of garlic powder, little to no fat, oregano, and (maybe) a hint of something spicy.  For the record, I prefer their pizza without the extra sauce, but it was a worthwhile exercise.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 11:29:44 PM by bobgraff »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #109 on: November 26, 2017, 10:01:19 AM »
11/25 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
188 g Water (46%)
6 g IDY
6 g Salt
25 g Crisco (6%)
4 g Low diastatic malt powder
2 g Sugar


Dough Prep
10 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 2.5 days.  Warmed up on the counter for 30-60 minutes.

Sauce
Cento Italian tomatoes (28 oz), 1/2 TBSP butter, 1 tsp oregano, 3/16 tsp garlic powder, 1/16 tsp white pepper, pinch of salt, pinch of sugar.

Cheese
Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, grated romano

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 7 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
These were very good.  I managed to get 3 pizzas out of my normal 2 pizza dough recipe.  Nice and crispy...



The sauce was definitely a step up from my previous versions. The healthy dose of garlic powder in the sauce made a world of difference.  Even my kids approved.  :chef:

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Offline tedcholl

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #110 on: November 26, 2017, 10:12:17 AM »
Really nice looking pizzas Bob.   And it's always a great thing when you get compliments from the family.   
One thing I have had good success with is to precook both my onions and mushrooms (or any veggies) in a skillet with some oil before adding them to the pizza - it adds alot of flavor to both.    Before I did this I found that the veggies tended to be dried out and not very tasty.   You may have already done this but if not I'd recommend you give it a try.

Cheers!

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2017, 10:30:40 PM »
11/29 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
188 g Water (46%)
6 g IDY
6 g Salt
25 g Crisco (6%)
2 g Low diastatic malt powder
3 g Sugar


Dough Prep
10 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 2.5 days.  Warmed up on the counter for 60 minutes.  Skins stored in the fridge for 4 hours.

Sauce
Cento tomato puree (28 oz), 1 tsp olive oil, 1 tsp red wine, 1.5 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp garlic powder, 1/16 tsp white pepper, pinch of salt, pinch of sugar, pinch of red pepper.

Cheese
Pizza 1:  Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, grated parmesan.
Pizza 2: Fresh mozzarella 

The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 5-7 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
The significant change with this batch is that I divided it into 6 100g dough balls instead of 4 150g ones.  The slight increase in effort resulted in two extra dough balls, which are now resting comfortably in my freezer.  The pizzas were unsurprisingly ultra thin, maybe too much so.  Lots of blisters on the underskirt due to the 4 hours in the fridge.  While I appreciate the extra downtime between rolling and baking, I don't believe the blisters make a better pizza (in my humble opinion).

On the sauce front:  still chasing the ever-elusive perfect sauce.  This time I used 28oz of Cento tomato puree, which ends up being much more tomato product than 28oz can of whole tomatoes due to the lack of juice that I normally discard. The extra tomato threw off my intended spice/herb mix, which created somewhat of a mad scientist situation (more garlic, more oregano, red pepper? red wine? ...).

I should also note that I sautéed the mushrooms and onions, per Ted's suggestion.  I thought the mushrooms were better this way, but the onions were too muted.  I might add the onions to the pan later in the process next time.

I'm of course being hyper critical about these pizzas.  They were both really good.  It's definitely becoming more difficult to improve on them (except for the sauce - lots of room for improvement there.... see, there I go again!).
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 07:37:13 AM by bobgraff »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #112 on: December 08, 2017, 08:33:48 AM »
11/29 Dough

Dough Prep
10 Hour RT Ferment, dough ball in fridge for 2.5 days + freezer for 5 days + fridge 1 day  Warmed up on the counter for 30 minutes.

Sauce
Cento Italian tomatoes (28 oz), 1/2 TBSP butter, 1 tsp oregano, 3/16 tsp garlic powder, 1/16 tsp white pepper, pinch of salt, pinch of sugar.

Cheese
60% Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend / 40% Sui Raclette


The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 5-7 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
This pizza was made from the extra dough balls I put in the freezer last weekend.  Other than needing to re-adjust my oven temp/time, this one turned out excellent.  The "Sui Raclette" was a discounted hunk of soft white cheese I found in the highfalutin cheese counter at Kroger.  I fear that I have opened Pandora's box of high-end cheese.  It could be described as "melty gooey goodness". 

Offline bobgraff

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BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2017, 08:38:38 AM »
12/10 Dough

410 g Bread Flour
188 g Water (46%)
6 g IDY
6 g Salt
25 g Crisco (6%)
4 g Sugar


Dough Prep
8 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 3.5 days.

Sauce
Stanislaus 7/11 Tomatos, 1 tsp butter, .5 tsp Penzy's Tuscan Sunset (Italian blend), 1/2 clove minced fresh garlic, pinch of salt.

Cheese
Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, grated Raclette.


The Bake
5 min par bake with sauce + 6.5 minute bake dressed @ 520.

Results
My malt had bugs in it.  There - I've said it.  Said malt is now on the way to the landfill.  Not sure how those little suckers got in there, but I'm quite disappointed.  Next order is going straight in the freezer!  >:(

These pizzas are malt free (surprise).  I baked them at a slightly lower temp to reduce the amount of "hot spots".  The crust came out respectably crispy, but not as flaky some others.

 I finally tried Stanislaus tomatoes and I gotta say I am hooked.  We used the bulk of a 6 lb can on pasta sauce (which was delicious) and used the remainder for these pizzas.  I added fresh garlic, which was good but perhaps overshadowed the tomatoes.

The second pizza was my take on a Philly Cheesesteak pizza.  Needed mayo... or whiz... or something.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 01:38:04 PM by bobgraff »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #114 on: December 17, 2017, 06:43:17 PM »
I might have gotten carried away at GFS today.  Any guesses as to how many pizzas it will take to go through 18 lbs of tomato product?

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #115 on: December 24, 2017, 10:15:39 AM »
12/21 Dough

820 g Bread Flour
376 g Water (46%)
12 g IDY
12 g Salt
50 g Crisco (6%)
8 g Sugar


Dough Prep
8 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 2.5 days.

Sauce
Stanislaus Alta Cucina tomatoes, .5 tsp Penzy's Tuscan Sunset (Italian blend), pinch of garlic powder, pinch of salt.

Cheese
Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, Polly-O WMM, shaved raclette, shaved white cheddar, grated romano


The Bake
4 min par bake with sauce + 4-6 minute bake dressed @ 530.

Results
I volunteered to make pizza for a pre-Christmas family gathering over at my parent's place.  Their oven was tapped for Christmas cookie baking, so I knew ahead of time that I wouldn't have the luxury of pre-heating my stone.  My solution to this problem was to par bake the skins at my place then finish baking without a stone at dinner.   I also needed to sort out the logistics of transporting multiple skins across town.... Perfect excuse to invest in 50 large pizza boxes from GFS.  8)

The pizzas were cooked directly on the rack and came out extra crackery.   Some of the pizzas were on the well done side due to me trying to multitask and not timing the final bakes.

I went light on the sauce to prevent oven droopage, so it wasn't a prominent flavor on these pizzas.  I tried a spoonful before baking the pizzas and would describe it as simple and fresh tasting.

I pulled out all the stops on the cheese front.  Polly-O and raclette on the veggie pizzas, mozz/provo and cheddar on the meaties.  Romano on most of them.

All-in-all, I was pleased with the results.  The pizzas were well received and I learned some new tricks.  I could not ask for anything more..... expect for a pizza screen... and maybe a pizza steel.   Santa - are you listening?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 01:23:04 PM by bobgraff »

Offline tedcholl

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #116 on: December 24, 2017, 10:22:28 AM »
Pizzas looking great bobgraff.   You seem to be zeroing in on where you want to be.   :chef: :pizza:  Have a great holiday and thanks for sharing.

Ted

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #117 on: December 29, 2017, 03:42:16 PM »
12/28 Dough (Chris Graff's NY style)

292 g Bread Flour
32 g Spelt Flour
204 g Water (63%)
.65 g IDY
6.5 g Salt
5 g Olive Oil (1.5%)
4 g Sugar


Dough Prep
2 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 14 hours, 4 hours back at room temp.

Sauce
Stanislaus 7/11 Tomatoes, .5 tsp garlic powder, .25 tsp Penzy's dried basil, .25 tsp white pepper.

Cheese
Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend

The Bake
3 min par bake with sauce + 4 minute bake dressed @ 530. (pizza 1)
5 minute bake fully dressed @ 550 (pizza 2)

Results
I finally tried my hand at re-creating my brother's NY style recipe.  The addition of spelt flour was my idea. 
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=47300.0

I have not had great success in the past hand stretching dough, but I think it went pretty well.  The dough was well-behaved and opened up beautifully. 

I par baked the first pizza as I was concerned about the launch plus the rate at which the cheese would melt.  It came out of the oven looking great, however it was not the airy light crust that my brother turns out.

The second pizza was launched straight into the oven fully dressed.  As I suspected, I botched the launch and the cheese was ready to come out of the oven before the crust.  To my surprise, this pizza had the airy quality that I was shooting for and I found myself enjoying it more than the first.

I'm likely to continue making these on occasion as my kids prefer this style of pizza and I must admit I had a lot of fun working with the dough.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 03:45:38 PM by bobgraff »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #118 on: December 31, 2017, 04:10:14 PM »
12/29 Dough (Garvey's Pizza Factory recipe)

373 g AP Flour
186 g Water (50%)
30 g Crisco (8%)
3.74 g Salt (1%)
3.74 g Sugar (1%)
1.87 g IDY (.5%)


Dough Prep
1 Hour RT Ferment, dough balls stored in fridge for 50 hours, 4 hours back at room temp.

Sauce
Pizza 1:  2.25 kg Stanislaus 7/11 Ground Tomatoes, 4.5 oz Amore double strength tomato paste, 4 TSP butter
Pizza 2: Garvey's Pizza Factory sauce recipe (see link below)

Cheese
Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, grated romano

The Bake
Pizza 1: 10 minute bake dressed @ 450.
Pizza 2: 2 minute par bake with sauce + 8 minute bake fully dressed @ 450.

Results
2017 wraps up with an extra notch in the belt and a couple of pizzas made from Garvey's infamous Pizza Factory dough recipe.  This recipe is one of several "need to try" mental notes I've made after countless hours spent reading these forums this year.  It did not disappoint.

Garvey's Pizza Factory Recipe
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17662.0

This dough rolls out soooo much easier than the Tommy's dough (4 minutes instead of 30).  In fact, the second skin was made simply by using my palms to spread the dough inside of a pie bag.

I used some leftover tomato sauce (Marcella Hazan's recipe) on pizza 1 since I wasn't sure if my kids would appreciate the "spice bomb" Pizza Factory sauce.  Pizza 1 (the pepperoni) was launched straight into the oven without too much trouble.  The crust came out perfect - nicely browned, slightly crisp, soft bite, good flavor. I thought the cheese was a bit over cooked however.  I sprinkled a bit of fine garlic powder and Italian blend on a few pieces and thought it was some of the best pizza I've made.

My aim for pizza 2 was to re-create Garvey's recipe as close as possible - sauce and all.  There are a lot of herbs and spices in this sauce, but they fade into the background under the cheese and other toppings.  I was forced to par-bake pizza 2 as it was starting to stick to my peel as I was saucing it.  As you can see in the pictures below, this crust was less brown than the first.  In hindsight, I should have kept it in the oven a minute longer.  Still - it was another excellent pizza that was quickly gobbled up.

This dough is another keeper that will be in regular rotation at my house.  Thanks to Garvey for all the work he put in perfecting it!

« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 04:11:59 PM by bobgraff »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: BobGraff's Attempt at Aimless Ryan's Tommy's Pizza Clone
« Reply #119 on: January 07, 2018, 12:36:03 PM »
1/5 Dough (Garvey's Pizza Factory recipe)

373 g (50% AP Flour / 50% Bread Flour)
186 g Water (50%)
30 g Crisco (8%)
3.74 g Salt (1%)
3.74 g Sugar (1%)
1.87 g IDY (.5%)


Dough Prep
Dough balls stored in fridge for 32 hours, 4 hours back at room temp.

Sauce
1.5 cups Stanislaus 7/11 Ground Tomatoes, 3 tsp Amore double strength tomato paste, pinch of sugar


Cheese
Primo Gusto LMPS Mozz/Provo Blend, grated romano

The Bake
Oven preheated @ 525 for 1 hour.
Pizza 1: 5 minutes @ 450 via screen sitting on the stone + 2.5 minutes direct on the stone.
Pizza 2: 8 minutes @ 450 via screen sitting on the middle rack + 4 minutes direct on the stone.

Results
Garvey's Pizza Factory recipe kicks off 2018.  I recently acquired a 16" pizza screen and was excited to put it to good use.  I rolled out the dough using my pie bag and transferred the skin immediately to the screen, skipping my additional roll out in plastic wrap.   These pizzas take the top spot size-wise - the 16" screen accommodates much larger pizza skins than my peels.

The pepperoni pizza was baked on the screen sitting on the stone, then the screen was removed for the final couple of minutes.  The cheese dictated when I took the pizza out of the oven and the crust ended up being slightly under cooked.  I found the sauce to be on the plain side, so I added a good dose of oregano for pizza #2.

The veggie pizza was baked on the screen sitting on the middle rack, then got stuck on my metal peel as I attempted to move it to the stone.  After a couple of minutes swearing at it, I finally got it on the stone - losing precious heat in the process.  This crust was even more undercooked than the first.  The toppings reminded me of a Donatos veggie pizza though, so it wasn't a total loss.

The jury is still out regarding the use on the screen, but intend to continue experimenting.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 08:35:21 PM by bobgraff »

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