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Author Topic: I think I have a yeast affection  (Read 4909 times)

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Offline Jet_deck

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I think I have a yeast affection
« on: November 09, 2010, 07:47:23 AM »
For some time I have been contemplating a preferment for the 'Perfect Dough by weight' recipe from FB, to cook on the 10stone.  Using the article that Peter always suggest when formulating a preferment, by Didear Rosada, at http://www.bakerconnection.com/artisanbaker/article_04.htm.  I newbied myself into the following guidlines:  First, the existing recipe:
500 grams Caputo Tipo 00 pizza flour
325 grams water (65% hydration)
10 grams salt
3 grams active dry yeast

_____________________________
Preferment, specifically a poolish, 40% of total water, 40% of total flour, 1.5% fresh yeast for a 3 hour maturation.

130g water
130g flour
1.95g fresh(cake)yeast x .4117 = .802g ADY

First, I had envisioned this poolish to be a bowl full of super frothy slimey yeast goodness gone wild.  It was the exact opposite.  The 50/50 water/flour mix is dough, nothing frothy about dough.  I added another 50g of water, and it looked like it could have possibilities.  I placed it in a 30 second warmed oven and watched it closely.  After an hour and a half, almost nothiing had happened.  So, I uh, added another g of ady to the poolish. :-X
Somewhere about the 2 hour mark, I gave up on the poolish and started the remaineder of the recipe that I would add the poolish to.

145g water
370g flour
10g salt
2g ADY

Went to grab the poolish, low and behold, it was alive!  Did a light hand knead, covered and let proof 1 hour in bulk, proof another hour after balled.  It didn't feel right, so I gently reballed and proofed for a final hour. Cooked on the 12stone at 900* for approx 2.5 minutes.  It was crispy and aldente.  The taste was good, just not light and airy as I was shooting for. It needs more water, the hydration of the recipe should be upped to 68%, at least.  I showed the DW the results, and offered her a test piece.  I was down in the dumps, cleaning up my stuff, and heard something I'd never heard before.  The DW says--"I'm suprised you only offered me one test piece" I said, well I didn't know if you would like it or not, would you like another one, she says yes, make it two. :-D :-D :-D  Such is life. :chef:
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 05:00:21 PM »
Does anyone see any errors on the math?  Should a 50/50 mix of Caputo and water make a dough or a batter? After reading the first 12 pages of Normas' Leighman preferment, I think the room temp last nite probably slowed the growth of the poolish somewhat,(during the first hour before I put it in the warmed oven) but I can't see this current formulation at the break point in 3 hours.  Without any suggestions, I think I will use the same hydration (with the extra 50g of water for the poolish) and use better judgment when it comes time to put the poolish and the final dough together.(as far as needing extra water) (last nite, once the two were combined I did 2 stretch and folds and it was hard as a rock)  maybe the yeast had aready been through the all sugar in the dough.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 06:07:35 PM »
Jet_deck,

If you used equal weights of flour (130g) and water (130g), you should have had a poolish with the consistency of a batter, albeit a fairly thick one. Based on the Rosada article you referenced, to achieve the break point in three hours presumes a water temperature of 60 degrees F and a room temperature of 80-85 degrees F. Any other temperatures and the amount of yeast would have to be adjusted up or down to compensate for the differences. This is one of those cases where having a way of controlling temperatures comes in real handy. Without temperature control, you have to watch the poolish to see when it peaks and starts to recede. Even then, you should have a fair amount of time to use the poolish. That is, you don't have to catch it as soon as it recedes.

I note also that you used 145g of water in the final mix. By my calculation, you should have used 195g (325-130 = 195).

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 06:54:26 PM »
Peter, I had to rob the 50g of water from the final dough formulation to put into the poolish. Possibly I jacked up the 50/50 weights on the poolish, but it was most definitely a dough. What is the big deal with starting the water at 60 then letting it move up to 80-85?  Cant I just start at 100 and let it move down to 80-85?    Ill try again now.

Thanks
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 07:12:28 PM »
What is the big deal with starting the water at 60 then letting it move up to 80-85?  Cant I just start at 100 and let it move down to 80-85?    Ill try again now.

Jet-deck,

The 60 degrees F applies to the water temperature, and the 80-85 degrees F applies to the room temperature at which the poolish preferments. If you change either of those values, you should adjust the amount of yeast.

Peter

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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 07:59:23 PM »
Sorry, I didn't type it the way I should have.  I usually use 105* water to proof the yeast.  This suggest to start with 60* water.  After a period of time everything will heat up to the kitchen temp of 85*.  I'm wondering why Rosada wants to start at 60 and move up, rather than start at 105* and go down.  I understand why he does it this way after retyping my question, but, I'm using an hour and 15 minutes to get from 60 to 85.  This cuts my proof time in half.  (assuming that the yeast isnt doing anything below 85)   But, since Bill/SNMF has the new proofing boxes set at sixty something, I have answered my own question.  Thank you.  Keep the questions coming. :-D
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 08:12:35 PM »
Jet_deck,

I wasn't thinking as clearly as I should have. The 60 degrees F water temperature is for cake yeast, which can tolerate water temperatures much lower than ADY. For ADY, you would want to use a small amount of the poolish water at around 105 degrees F to rehydrate the ADY. The rest of the water would be cooler. You could use all of the poolish water at 105 degrees F if you want to speed up the entire prefermentation process. That might be a good thing if room temperatures have been falling where you live, just as they have been doing where I am in Texas. The wide variations in temperature is what makes preferments like poolish tricky.

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 10:53:55 AM »
It came together alot better last night.  The poolish looked pretty good at the end of the three hours and was easy to incorporate into the final mix.  I let it bulk rise for an hour or so, it still was kinda rough looking, so I tightened the outer skin a bit with the dough scraper on the bench.  I put it into a lightly oiled container and into the fridge, it had risen just a bit this am, and I think it will be on track.  Question :  How do I now ball this stuff?  Ball it cold and proof more?  Let it come to temp, ball, rest and use?  Let it come to temp, ball, and back to the fridge?  Thanks.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 11:09:14 AM »
Jet_deck,

My practice, and the one that Norma uses with her preferment Lehmann dough, is to do the division of the bulk dough into pieces before placing them into the refrigerator/cooler. However, I believe that Mike (Essen1) does the dough division after removing the bulk dough from the refrigerator. So, unless you can find his posts on how he does it, he may be the best one to advise you as to which of the three options you mentioned is the best one to use.

Peter

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 11:52:31 AM »
..... do the division of the bulk dough into pieces before placing them into the refrigerator/cooler.
Peter

That is my normal as well, it was just late and I couldn't finish it that way.
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Offline Essen1

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 06:06:00 PM »
Quote
Let it come to temp, ball, rest and use?

That's how I do it with the exception of letting the bulk dough come up to temp.

But your dough might be different from mine so I would experiment with all three different methods.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Essen1

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 11:58:49 PM »
JD,

Here's one post where I used the cold bulk rise Peter talked about earlier:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg72211.html#msg72211

Turned out pretty well, although I didn't use a poolish.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2010, 11:44:54 AM »
Pretty good dough.  I turned the bulk cold dough out onto the bench and cut it into quarters.  2 of the quarters I put in balls and 2 I left not balled. Balled or bulk opened equally well, my choice was the bulk however. I covered and left them all on the bench to warm up.  It was good pizza.  I'm undecided whether all the extra effort of the poolish was worth it.  Still relatively little oven spring.
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: I think I have a yeast affection
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 01:35:09 PM »
See it cooked in less than 2 min on the 10stone here : http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11402.msg116983.html#msg116983
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