Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas

[Chicago Bob]

Without the passion of the hobbyist gone pro, where would the pizza world be?

I can't speak for Tom but I have a feeling that he was probably referring to how many people who have a passion/hobby end up failing because they also have no business sense/skills. Simply loving something so much that you blindly pour everything into it is no guarantee of success. Actually, it's probably a recipe for failure. Some get lucky and are able to "learn as they go" before the money runs out. But in these days of high rents and stiff competition.....your "passion" better have a nice healthy bank account too.

[pizzaneer]

At the minimum, I would say you need at least two key people on staff.  The perfectionist artist, and a business manager who controls the budget.  Compromises will have to be made.  Can't go all one way or the other, there has to be that push and push-back in order to get the business off the ground.  Once it's going, has regulars, and is drawing in new customers based on reputation, then you can step up the quality even higher by giving the artist what he has been asking for.

Try to do it all yourself, you will make yourself schizophrenic.

[Chicago Bob]

Try to do it all yourself, you will make yourself schizophrenic.

Brian,
Don't you think that diagnosis may be a bit ..... schizophrenic.   

[pizzaneer]

Brian,
Don't you think that diagnosis may be a bit ..... schizophrenic.   

My wife and I use to fill these roles very well.  Guess who in each.
She doesn't participate anymore, due to advanced alcoholism.  I'm having issues keeping business stability.

[afausey28]

The Secret ingredient in Tommy's Pizza is Barley Malt, Syrup or powder, this is from and inside man whom claims they keep the recipe on lock down but he knows they use barley malt.

some-one give this a try and tell me what comes of it

[Aimless Ryan]

OK, so when I last contributed to this thread (in a different life), I'd say my Tommy's clone was about 75% true. (Mostly it was too tough.) Well, I've made some pretty significant changes to both the formula and the workflow, which interestingly were inspired mostly by my attempt to clone Shakey's. Two Saturdays ago, when I intended to make a Shakey's/Tommy's hybrid, I ended up making almost a perfect clone of Tommy's. I'm not kidding. Especially since I used Ezzo GiAntonio pepperoni, which my dumpster dive revealed is the pepperoni Tommy's uses. I'll say I'm about 95% of the way there now. In fact, I was pretty happily freaked out when many of the bites I took sent me back in time to the Tommy's I remember from when I was a kid.

Anyway, here's the formula I used for the most recent Tommy's style pizzas:

100% Pillsbury bleached AP flour (or maybe Gold Medal)
43% Water
1.5% ADY
2% Salt
3% Shortening
1% Sugar

With the dough I made this morning (for tomorrow), I decreased the salt to 1.5% and increased the shortening to 4%. The recent pizzas were amazing, but these changes may make it better. I'm also toying with the idea of increasing the hydration by a couple percent.

I'll share the rest of the details reasonably soon (maybe in a couple days).

[RockyMountainPie]

Don't keep us hanging, bro!  What happened?  (And where are the pics?) 

--Tim

[Aimless Ryan]

I don't know if I have any pics, because I've been so busy during my parties, which is the only time I've made this kind of pizza lately. I didn't figure anyone was really paying attention to this thread. I'm a little worried that tomorrow's pizzas won't turn out as good as recent pizzas, mostly because I used IDY for the first time with the dough I made this morning, and it looks like I didn't get the conversion right. (It's fermenting very slowly.) For this batch I used 0.8% IDY, compared to 1.5% ADY for the previous couple batches. I don't know if it's bad yeast or a bad conversion. At least the yeast is doing something, though. I think it should turn out all right.

OK, it looks like I have six pics, but they're all overhead and upskirt shots. The money shot with this style of pizza is the profile, showing the lamination, which lately hasn't been as pronounced as most of the lamination shots throughout this thread. There are probably two reasons for that: 1) I use a lot less bench flour between the laminates than I used to use; and 2) I've been partially docking the skins lately (even though I know Tommy's does not dock their skins). My docking pattern has been two parallel rolls; one just right of center and one just left of center, leaving 2 or 3 inches around the outside undocked. It's working out very well because it leaves me with a few nice bubbles, and I don't have to keep an eye on the pizzas just to pop bubbles, which means I can make a NY style pizza on the grill (4 minute bake) while the Tommy's style pizza is baking (8 or 9 minute bake).

Regardless of the less pronounced lamination, these pizzas have been waaaaay better than any of the pizzas throughout this thread up to now. I'll start processing the new pictures and post a few of them ASAP.

[Aimless Ryan]

So here are the two pics of whole pizzas I thought were worth sharing. The first one is from 8/3/13, and the second one is from 8/17/13. I like the first one because it looks just like Tommy's. One reason, I suppose, is because I carelessly dumped pepperoni on it, rather than placing each piece of pepperoni exactly where it's supposed to go (like I did on the second one). Also, this is the same pepperoni Tommy's uses (Ezzo GiAntonio 38 mm).

I like the second pic because it shows the results of the docking pattern I described in the previous post. As you can see, there are bubbles all around the outside of the pizza, but no out-of-control bubbles.

Two more pics on the way.

[Aimless Ryan]

Both of these pics are from the same pizza, and that pizza may have been a scrap dough pizza (made of Tommy's dough scraps), rather than an actual Tommy's style pizza. With scrap dough pizzas, I roll each wad of trimmed scraps individually, then roll them together to make a 2-layer pizza, rather than an 8-laminate pizza.

Even though I'm not sure if these pics are from a proper Tommy's style pizza, the blistering is representative of the blistering I've been getting with the true Tommy's style pizzas I've made lately. (The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to think this was an actual Tommy's style pizza, rather than scraps. Note to self: cops.)

I'll make an effort to get some lamination pics tomorrow. Also, I intend to share a list of the many changes I've made to this style of pizza, as well as explanations for why I've made the changes.

[Aimless Ryan]

The Secret ingredient in Tommy's Pizza is Barley Malt, Syrup or powder, this is from and inside man whom claims they keep the recipe on lock down but he knows they use barley malt.

some-one give this a try and tell me what comes of it

I'll try to remember to do that soon. Right now I don't have barley malt, syrup, or powder, nor do I even know what it is or what it does. Thanks for the tip.

[Aimless Ryan]

Here are some pictures of the Tommy's style pizza I made yesterday.

For the first time ever with this style of pizza, I used IDY rather than ADY. In fact, it was only about the third time I've used IDY for any kind of pizza, and all my IDY usage has occurred over the last week or so. I've had trouble with the yeast conversion so far, and I'm not sure if it's because I'm making a bad conversion or if it's because the IDY just isn't good. (Seems like the top of the yeast jar's lid didn't pop when I first opened the jar, but I know for sure that the thin plastic seal around the lid didn't break when I first opened the jar.)

I figured if I cut my ADY percentage in half when using IDY, I'd get a pretty similar fermentation rate as when I use ADY, but that has not happened. Usually, with ADY (at 1.5%), the bulk-fermented dough doubles (or triples?) within 4 hours of mixing, or possibly even 2.5 hours. However, with 0.8% IDY, the bulk-fermented dough did not double until 8 hours after mixing.

Interestingly, yesterday's Tommy's style pizza may have had the best crust I've ever produced with this style. As you will see from the upskirt shots, the bottom of the crust was much different than the pizza shown in my most recent pics. And you know what? Both of the pictured pizzas are good representations of what you might get served at Tommy's.

Here's the dough formula I used for this one:

100% Pillsbury bleached AP flour
43% Water
0.8% IDY
1.5% Salt
4% Shortening
1% Sugar

I mixed the dough with cold water and bulk fermented in a 75-degree room for 8 hours Friday. Punched down the dough and refrigerated overnight. Pulled the dough at 8:00 am Saturday and scaled into four 11 oz dough balls (or dough pieces). Let the covered dough pieces warm up/rise for at least an hour, then rolled the 8-laminate skins, using two pieces of dough for each skin. In an effort to end up with 15" pizzas, I trimmed the dough to about 16 oz (TF=0.90 oz of dough per square inch), using a 16" screen as a trimming template. (I use a 16" template for 15" pizzas because the dough always shrinks at least an inch after trimming.)

After rolling and trimming each skin, I semi-docked, then wrapped with plastic wrap and refrigerated at 11:00-11:30. I made a pizza using one of the skins at 2:00 or 3:00, after a short room-temperature warm-up (no more than 15 minutes). Baked directly on stone at 500 for 9 minutes. (The other skin is still in the fridge. I will use it today.)

[Aimless Ryan]

A few more pics of the same pizza.

[Pete-zza]

Ryan,

You might find this yeast conversion table useful:

http://www.theartisan.net/convert_yeast_two.htm

If you look at some of the conversion values, you will see that to convert ADY to IDY you reduce the weight of ADY by about 25%.

Peter

[Aimless Ryan]

Thanks, Peter. That seems to be pretty well in line with the results I've gotten from IDY (both with this latest batch of Tommy's dough and with two batches of stuffed pizza dough). Since I thought the conversion was closer to 50%, this has been very confusing. I'll try 25% less IDY than my normal ADY percentage next time I make either Tommy's dough or stuffed dough.

[Aimless Ryan]

Below are some pictures from my trip to OSU Tommy's last fall (10/27/12) with Nick (Weemis). The pizzas I've been making lately are more like OSU Tommy's than Upper Arlington Tommy's. I've never been to the other two Tommy's locations.

Pics from the Upper Arlington Tommy's (2/23/11): http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg128359.html#msg128359.

A couple more pics from the Upper Arlington Tommy's (same pizza): http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg128771.html#msg128771.

Briterian's pics from the Upper Arlington Tommy's: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg118418.html#msg118418.

[Pete-zza]

I'll try to remember to do that soon. Right now I don't have barley malt, syrup, or powder, nor do I even know what it is or what it does. Thanks for the tip.

Ryan,

I suspect that Tommy's is using a flour that is already malted, most likely with barley malt. That form of malt is diastatic in nature in that it works on damaged starch in the flour to release natural sugars for use by the yeast as food and for crust coloration purposes. It is possible to supplement the flour with more diastatic malt, but that can have adverse effects if the total amount of diastatic malt becomes excessive.

If Tommy's is indeed adding malt to its flour, my guess is that it is non-diastatic malt, which is basically a sweetener without diastatic properties. You can get a pretty good understanding of the differences between diastatic malt and non-diastatic malt by looking up those terms in the forum's Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html .

One well known pizza chain that has used non-diastatic malt is Sbarro.

I have written on this subject many times on the forum. If you do a forum search on the above terms using my forum name, you should get a lot of hits. But if you need help with this, let me know.

Peter

[Aimless Ryan]

By the way, the pizza in Reply #295 (from OSU Tommy's) was nasty. Just looking at the pics makes me feel icky. My Tommy's clones are much better than that pizza.

I made another Tommy's clone tonight, out of dough I mixed two days ago. The dough formula was:

100% Pillsbury AP flour
43% Water
1.15% IDY
1.5% Salt
5% Shortening
1% Sugar

I let this one bulk ferment for a little under 4 hours. The dough probably hadn't doubled, but I punched it down and moved it to the fridge anyway. Left it there for two days, then scaled a couple dough pieces this afternoon and let them warm for a few hours before rolling the dough.

The short bulk ferment seemed to make quite a difference, even considering the extra day the dough spent in the fridge, as the crust on this one did not blister and it browned much more than usual. I baked immediately after rolling, and I think I like the crust better when I do that.

This one had a little more crunch than I want. I don't know if that's from being slightly underfermented or if it's because I need to increase either the fat or hydration. Regardless, it was very good.

Oh yeah, and I didn't dock this one. I can't really figure out why Tommy's doesn't dock their dough. It's such a hassle to have to constantly watch a pizza just to prevent it from bubbling out of control, especially when you could just dock the dough. Or even dock part of the dough, like I've done with recent pizzas. By doing that I ended up with some nice strategically-placed bubbles, but I didn't have to pay any attention to the pizza while it baked.

Peter, do you know where to buy non-diastatic malt? Or do you know of any AP flours that are malted? Would malted milk products be doable?

[DNA Dan]

If you add some non-fat dry milk to your recipe, it will soften the bite and make it less crunchy. This has been my experience and may be what you're looking for.

[Pete-zza]

Peter, do you know where to buy non-diastatic malt? Or do you know of any AP flours that are malted? Would malted milk products be doable?

Ryan,

I will tackle your all-purpose flour question first, and then address the others.

In the U.S., just about all milled white flours, including all-purpose flour, are malted. The ingredient most often used is malted barley. You will usually see in in flour ingredients listings, both at the retail and commercial levels. Malted barley is often called diastatic malt. Its purpose is to attack damaged starch in the flour and convert it to natural sugars to feed the yeast and for crust coloration purposes. Sometimes you will see the word enzyme in a flour ingredients list and, less often, fungal amylase. They all are diastatic ingredients that serve the same purpose as diastatic malt. I don't know if Tommy's is adding diastatic malt to its flour. Some bakers do that but if there is too much diastatic malt in the flour, it can lead to a wet and clammy dough with poor performance. I would guess that Tommy's is using a nondiastatic malt.

Nondiastatic malt is added to doughs for its use as a sweetener and for crust coloration purposes and for flavor. It does not have diastatic properties.

Nondiastatic malt comes in liquid and dry forms. The nondiastatic malt I use is in liquid form and comes from Eden Organic, at http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=104050. Another source for the liquid form is Barry Farms, at http://www.barryfarm.com/sugars.htm. The dry form of nondiastatic malt is a little harder to find at retail but King Arthur has it via mail order, at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/non-diastatic-malt-powder-16-oz.

If you decide to get some nondiastatic malt, come back and we can discuss how much to use for your purposes. Usually, the amount depends on whether there are any other sweeteners in the recipe, such as sucrose (sucrose), that are to remain in the recipe.

Malted milk products, such as the Carnation Malted Milk, contain nondiastatic malted barley extracts but, as shown at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EQ4HVC/?tag=pmak-20, such products also have a lot of other things you normally do not need, such as wheat flour, milk, soy lecithin, salt, and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). But, that said, I and at least one other member have tried using the Carnation malted milk powder in pizza dough. I thought that the baking soda created some off flavors.

Peter