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Author Topic: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY  (Read 39441 times)

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Offline chickenparm

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2011, 10:56:40 PM »
Note: To the above, one should add a pinch of Asorbic (sic) acid.
 :-D
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Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2011, 11:18:15 PM »
Norma,

There are countless possibilities of dough formulations that would satisfy the pecking order of ingredients in your NY dough. The formulation I posted seems to fit what I learned about frozen dough when I researched the matter some time ago.

I did some rough calculations on what it would cost me to make two dough balls using the formulation I posted, using local supermarket prices, and I would say that it would cost me about $1.25. Of course, in a commercial environment, there are many other costs that are reflected in the final price to the consumer. I'm sure that with your ingredients costs, you can make mincemeat out of my costs.

I have not seen the AIB list of dough conditioners. Over time, I think we can expect to see many of those
ingredients replaced by other, "cleaner" ingredients that consumers are demanding of food producers. Scientists are already at work developing enzyme products to replace several of the ingredients in the AIB list. I am confident that ascorbic acid is safe and will not be replaced. Many of the big pizza chains already depend on ascorbic acid as a substitute for bromates.

Peter

Peter,

That is interesting what you posted your rough calculations would cost you to make two dough balls for the formula you posted.  That is .75 per dough ball cheaper than I bought mine for.  You are right in a commercial environment, there are many other costs that are reflected in the final cost to the consumer.  Even in my small pizza business prices keep going up for flour, cheese, electric, propane and other prices. Especially over the last year.  I don’t know how my small pizza business will do in the next years time with all these price increases.  I don’t even know if I will be able to make a profit if prices keep going up the way they have been going up.  I know I could buy the main ingredients in the formula you set-forth cheaper, but when I make dough for market, I have to take all my costs into consideration.  In the next week, I will try and calculate what the ingredients you set-forth in the formula would cost me at distributors prices.  

I didn’t know scientists were coming up with “cleaner” ingredients that consumers are now demanding of products.  I can understand that would make sense, but would be interested in knowing more about what the “cleaner” ingredients would be.  I will have to look on the web to see what kind of enzymes scientists are working on.  Always interesting to find out something new.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2011, 11:22:36 PM »
Note: To the above, one should add a pinch of Asorbic (sic) acid.
 :-D



Bill,

I laughed at Peter's post, too! 

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2011, 11:58:42 PM »
Norma,

See http://www.bakingbusiness.com/News/News%20Home/Features/2011/4/Enzymes.aspx.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the link to the article.

I will have to read over the article from bakingbusiness.com some more.  I see Glucose Oxidase in combination with ascorbic acid is one of the enzynes that are in the tests for “cleaner” products.  I asked for sample from biocompare or to get a quote how much a small amount would cost.  Maybe that in combination with ascorbic acid would be something to experiment with in a blend.  Who knows if I will be able to get any, but it doesn’t hurt to try.

Norma

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2011, 01:41:23 PM »
Norma,

You might find Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9121.msg83041.html#msg83041 of interest in relation to commercial frozen dough balls.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2011, 05:58:32 PM »
Norma,

You might find Reply 24 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9121.msg83041.html#msg83041 of interest in relation to commercial frozen dough balls.

Peter

Peter,

I found the link to Lamonica's Costco frozen  dough balls fascinating.  I haven’t seen that thread before.  I see where you posted  you spoke to Roberto Martini at length.  Since their dough balls probably should be defrosted overnight in the refrigerator, do you think that is what I should do with the dough ball I have?  I hadn’t decided if I wanted to defrost the dough ball at market tomorrow or put it into the refrigerator today. 

I wonder if the same company that make the Lamonica's frozen dough balls might be the same company that makes the frozen dough balls I bought.  I tried to find a phone number to call the Real New York Pizza Dough, Inc. company today, but I couldn’t find their phone number, because I didn’t have time to look into where it might be today.  I didn’t receive a email back about  my questions today either.  I wanted to ask you another question about the Lamonica's frozen dough balls.  Did you or other members ever find a formula to try for those dough balls?

On another note, I did email different companies (from the article you referenced) last evening and asked if I could purchase or receive any samples for enzymes.  I did get an email back from William Vertolli, Vice President, Sales
Bakery Ingredients Division) http://www.watson-inc.com/   and he asked me for my phone number to discuss why I wanted any enzymes.  I emailed him back with the information and he called me in a short while.  We discussed how I like to experiment with different things in dough and he said why don’t I just try L-Cysteine.  I said I didn’t want to try that product.  I said I wanted to know more about using a “clean” enzyme.  Bill said his company only sells large amount of their different products, in amounts of 1,000 lbs.  He said basically what I am trying to accomplish could be done with just using basic pizza ingredients. I said I knew that, but like to experiment. We talked for a long while and apparently he was originally from Middletown, Pa., which is really near me.  He asked me if I remembered the market in Middletown, Pa. and I said yes, at one time it was called the Big M market.  After we talked longer he said he would send me a sample of some kind of enzyme to try in pizza dough.  He talked so fast I couldn’t write down fast enough, what the product was but it started with something like Pro something.  He didn’t spell what the enzyme was.  He said that product will break down gluten quickly. Bill said after talking to me maybe I want to come and work for their company.  :-D  I don’t know if you want me to link this part of the post, to my other thread, on my blend. 

Hopefully the frozen dough ball will work out okay tomorrow. 

Norma

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2011, 06:40:51 PM »
Norma,

For the "Real New York Pizza Dough" (RNYPD), I would follow their instructions as to defrosting, etc., except that you can use you best judgment and skills as to how best to bake the pizzas in your deck oven at market.

I, too, tried to find out more about the company that makes the RNYPDs but without success, after much searching. I also could not find telephone numbers or any other hard data, only what you found as a way of communicating with them via email. I, too, wondered whether Lamonica's was behind the company in some way, either as a partner of a supplier of frozen dough balls. I thought that perhaps Lamonica's was testing the retail frozen dough market using the RNYPD company as the vehicle for doing this without alerting its competitors as to what it was doing. Lamonica's seemed to be a logical partner given its apparent proximity to the RNYPD company.

It's been a while, but my recollection is that I had a dough formulation in mind, either in my head or on paper using a printout of the dough formulation using the expanded dough calculating tool. However, the member who asked for help did not return with the data I needed to proceed. That is becoming an all too common an experience, leading me to conclude that it is best that I do what I do without depending on anyone else. However, my recollection is that I did make a test dough for a 16" Costco/Lamonica clone dough. That size is smaller than the 18" pizzas that Costco makes but a 16" size was the best I could do since I do not have an 18" perforated disk. That experiment was only partially successful. I didn't have a problem with the dough itself but rather in baking the pizza on the perforated disk. As you may have read, Costo oils their perforated disks with a fair amount of oil. That might work well in a conveyor oven, which is what Costco uses, but not so well in a home electric oven with a heating coil on the bottom. What I experienced was the oil leaking through the holes in the disk and hitting the hot bottom heatind coil. That caused a lot of smoke, to the point of setting off my smoke alarm. As a result, I put the project on hold. Maybe at some point I will revisit the matter. There is a Costco in my area but it is several miles away. Maybe when I am next in the area where Costco is located, I will buy a full size pizza to do some tests on it. It is unlikely that I will be able to come up with a perfect frozen clone dough simply because I cannot replicate the equipment and freezers that professionals use to make frozen dough balls commercially. You are likely to have better results because your freezer does not have a defrost cycle. My interest is only for the knowledge that I can take away from my experiments. I do not have a strong need to make and store large numbers of frozen dough balls.

With respect to the dough conditioners, I suggest that you deal with that subject at the other thread rather than burdening this one, where the only dough conditioner that applies is ascorbic acid. If I had to guess on the enzyme that Bill mentioned, it would be the protease enzyme. It is sold commercially on a standalone basis for the same purpose that the protease enzymes in flour serves.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2011, 07:17:33 PM »
Peter,

You could be right about Lamonica's and the Real New York Pizza Dough, Inc. being the same company to stay under the radar.  I only spent about 20 minutes looking for the phone number for the Real New York Pizza Dough, Inc. and thought it was strange I couldn’t find any phone number for them. 

I looked at this zip code locator in Brooklyn, NY and both places are in Kings County.  http://www.brainyzip.com/zipcodes/11/11232.html   I saw were Marc posted the box from Lamonica's at Reply 2  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9121.msg79444.html#msg79444 and that zip code is 11232 and the zip code on my box of Real New York Pizza Dough is 11203.

I don’t know how this dough will perform or if I want to try and clone it, but that is something to be seen for later.  I know how those cloning projects go.  They can be time consuming.  I can understand it can get frustrating when someone wants to try and clone a pizza product and then doesn’t come back to help. 

I know my freezer does keep food better longer because it doesn’t defrost.  That slice I had frozen for almost a year, wasn’t even freezer burnt. 

I can understand you put your project on hold when you set your fire alarms off.  I had fire alarm problems different times, too.  The dogs were also howling, so that made problems worse..lol

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2011, 07:57:10 PM »
Peter,

It looks like the Cristol Group could be a starting point to find out more about Real New York Pizza Dough, Inc. http://www.cristolgroup.com/catalog.cfm?C=18  When I have time I will contact them to see if I can find out anymore information.  I don’t have time tonight, but on the link it says for more information for sales contact [email protected]

Norma

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2011, 08:17:18 PM »
Norma,

I also stumbled across the Cristol Group but concluded that they are a food broker/rep. However, they might be able to offer more information on the supplier of the RNYPDs.

You might also take a look at the last news item at the bottom of the page at http://www.lamonicaspizzadough.com/online/Home.html.

Peter

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2011, 08:39:47 PM »
Norma,

Following up on my last post, I found an item at http://kashrutnews.posterous.com/real-new-york-pizza-dough-coming-to-publix that discusses the availability at Publix of the RNYPDs. Note the telephone number at the bottom. It turns out to be the Cristol Group.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2011, 08:44:55 PM »
Norma,

I also stumbled across the Cristol Group but concluded that they are a food broker/rep. However, they might be able to offer more information on the supplier of the RNYPDs.

You might also take a look at the last news item at the bottom of the page at http://www.lamonicaspizzadough.com/online/Home.html.

Peter
Norma,

Following up on my last post, I found an item at http://kashrutnews.posterous.com/real-new-york-pizza-dough-coming-to-publix that discusses the availability at Publix of the RNYPDs. Note the telephone number at the bottom. It turns out to be the Cristol Group.

Peter

Peter,

I will try and email or call the Cristol Group later this week. 

I don’t think now that Lamonica’ dough and the Real New York dough are the same.  I recently sent an email to Lamonica’s.

I just receive this email back.

To: info
Subject: Is your company the one that is producing Real New York Pizza Dough?

Hello,

I purchased a two dough ball package of the Real New York Pizza Dough at our local supermarket.  I wanted to try and bake them in a deck oven and had tried to email the Real New Pizza Dough, Inc. with my questions, but didn't get a response.  I see the zip code in Brooklyn, NY for your company and the Real New York Pizza Dough Company are both in Kings County, Brooklyn, NY.  That is why I am asking the question if your company and the Real New York Pizza Dough, Inc. are the same company.

Regards,

Norma

Dear Norma,
Real New York Pizza Dough is not a brand of ours, our company is based in Los Angeles, CA, even if we have a plant in Brooklyn, NY, and our product is sold under the Lamonica brand.
 
Best regards,
 
Rob Martini
Director of Sales
cell 310-309-1738
[email protected]
www.lamonicaspizzadough.com
Lamonica's Pizza Dough Co., Inc.
NY Pizza Co., Inc.

The only thing is they could still be going under the radar.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2011, 06:22:55 AM »
Peter,

I was thinking more about if there still could be any connection between Lamonica’s and the Cristol Group.  I found on Linedin that Sam Cristol is the owner and CEO of the Cristol Group.  http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sam-cristol/b/62b/691 and I searched though the yellow pages in Florida and the Cristol Group is either in Fort Lauderdale Florida or Tamarac, Florida.  I did email the Cristol Group last evening because I am curious about why the Cristol Group gives their phone number for the Real New York Pizza Dough.  I will be at market today, so I won’t be able to search anymore, about why the Real New York Pizza Dough would only have a Florida number and be linked to the Cristol Group.

In my email I did ask about baking instructions for the New York Pizza Dough that I bought frozen and also about suppliers if I wanted to purchase the New York Pizza Dough for my stand at market.

Norma

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2011, 09:45:19 PM »
I decided last evening to remove the Real New York Pizza Frozen dough ball from the freezer to defrost.  I first oiled the whole dough ball and also placed a little oil in the plastic container and placed it in the refrigerator over night.  This morning it wasn’t defrosted, so when I arrived at market I left it sit out until about 1:00 pm.  The dough wasn’t fermenting very well, so I placed the dough on a container on top of my deck oven and left it there for a few more hours.  It still didn’t look like it had fermented enough, but I decided to make the pizza.  The skin was a little dry, but opened okay.  On the pictures below, it can be seen there were a few dry spots on the edges of the dough after it was opened.  When the pizza was in the oven, it formed bubbles in the middle of the pizza.  After the pizza was baked, it looked okay.  Steve and I both tasted the pizza and the crust was okay, but not like a longer fermented dough.  The crust had a more bread like taste.  If I had to rate this pizza from the Real New Pizza Dough, I would say it tasted almost like some of the pizzas I have tried at New York Slice businesses or about like most NY pizzas do, but not from a good pizzeria.  The crust did have some flavor.  It wasn’t bad.  What Steve and I didn’t understand was how someone that normally doesn’t make dough would know when this Real New York Pizza dough would be ready to use.  I have watched many doughs and would think if someone would just buy this dough at a supermarket, how they would know when it was ready to be used.  I don’t think people would have the patience to watch the dough as long as Steve and I did.  If someone just bought this dough, I can’t understand how they could know when to stretch the skin.  To me, this was a longer process than I thought it would be. 

On another note, I got an interesting email from John Lamonica today.

Pictures below

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2011, 09:49:40 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2011, 09:51:53 PM »
more pictures

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2011, 09:54:29 PM »
end of pictures

Norma

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2011, 10:04:12 PM »
This is the email I received from John Lamonica today.

john lamonica to you and ROBERTO MARTINI - 13 hrs ago More Details

dear norma

we do make real new york pizza dough in brooklyn but we are not the company that you are contacting. 

sorry

ciao

john

Note at the top also who the email was sent to. I now wonder who makes this Real New York Pizza Dough.

Norma

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Re: “Real New York Frozen Dough Balls”..from Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2011, 10:42:55 PM »
Norma,
Those look like they turned out pretty good.That said,I wonder if you were to do what I did to my frozen dough balls if that would help any?

My method was,thaw them overnight in fridge,untouched in the bag its sealed in.Sometimes I had to wait 2 days since my fridge is quite cold at times.

When thawed,remove from plastic wrap it came in,ball it very easily into round shape,place into a lightly oiled bowl or container,spray a little oil over the top,and let it cold rise one more day in the fridge.

When I did this with the Primo Gusto frozen dough balls,it grew a nice size and tasted pretty good like it had some fermenting going on.



 :)



-Bill

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