Papa John's use of corn meal

[Wtiberon]

I was in Papa John's and I asked one of the preparers what they were shaping their doughs in and he said corn meal. I was surprised and did a search on this forum and couldn't find anything satisfying.  I had heard of using Semolina flour but corn meal doesn't seem right for some reason.  Before I try it I would see what everyone thinks.

[Tscarborough]

I have used it on some pies, it added a nice flavor and crunch.

[Pete-zza]

I was in Papa John's and I asked one of the preparers what they were shaping their doughs in and he said corn meal. I was surprised and did a search on this forum and couldn't find anything satisfying.  I had heard of using Semolina flour but corn meal doesn't seem right for some reason.  Before I try it I would see what everyone thinks.

Wtiberon,

Information I received from Papa John's some time ago said that the Dustinator blend used semolina flour (see Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7551.msg64598/topicseen.html#msg64598). Since the Dustinator blend is shipped to stores from PJ's commissaries, I tend to doubt that the blend includes cornmeal. Unless, of course, PJs has switched to cornmeal. Maybe member c0mpl3x, who works for PJs, can shed more light on the subject.

Peter

[Jackie Tran]

Perhaps the worker just assumed that it is cornmeal since the two do look similar.

[buceriasdon]

Yep, I use it always in my thin and crispies.
Don

I have used it on some pies, it added a nice flavor and crunch.

[Meatballs]

I feel cornmeal is essential to a real pizza flavor and texture.  I use white cornmeal because in this area of the South its the dominant form.  Local, white corn bread is awesome. 

I use the cornmeal to warm my dough on and add more as the skin is opened and more on the paddle to get it into the oven.  It cooks up hard and crispy, omnomnomnom

Ron

[c0mpl3x]

Wtiberon,

Information I received from Papa John's some time ago said that the Dustinator blend used semolina flour (see Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7551.msg64598/topicseen.html#msg64598). Since the Dustinator blend is shipped to stores from PJ's commissaries, I tend to doubt that the blend includes cornmeal. Unless, of course, PJs has switched to cornmeal. Maybe member c0mpl3x, who works for PJs, can shed more light on the subject.

Peter

PJ itself uses a blend of a fine to medium ground semolina (much finer than cornmeal) and durum wheat flour (also very finely ground), with what seems to be 2-3% soybean oil worked into the blend.   it's a wonderful stretching medium, by far my favorite over any conventional methods (flour, cornmeal, etc)

personally though, i use a 50/50 blend of stone ground whole wheat flour/el-cheapo AP flour, that i let sit out in a fullsheet pan at about 4c at a time for a few hours to dehydrate before i stretch my pizzas.  i find it a much 'smoother and silkier' method, although i am considering going 50/50 with finer ground semolina and using conventional fine/coarse mix of WW flour that is carried in most any stores, but this is sidebar off topic banter.

if you have any other PJ specific questions, feel free to ask as there is only a few things i cannot answer at this time about PJ

[Pete-zza]

if you have any other PJ specific questions, feel free to ask as there is only a few things i cannot answer at this time about PJ

c0mpl3x,

I imagine that the the supplier and type and makeup of the flour (e.g., protein content) are a couple of those things. However, there is one thing that is public that has long puzzled me. Maybe you can tell me what John Schnatter says at 3:15 in the Facebook video at . The words to my aging ears sound like "flax river seed".

Peter

[c0mpl3x]

c0mpl3x,

I imagine that the the supplier and type and makeup of the flour (e.g., protein content) are a couple of those things. However, there is one thing that is public that has long puzzled me. Maybe you can tell me what John Schnatter says at 3:15 in the Facebook video at . The words to my aging ears sound like "flax river seed".

Peter

watching it right now.

black (plack) river seed? he is talking about the flour/type of wheat processed into flour.  if this is it, the wheat is coming from upstate NY roughly in the fort drum area.

edit 2:

further research suggests that he is implying black striped sunflower seeds, but sunflower oil is only used in the sauce.


either way, both are plausible

[Mad_Ernie]

c0mpl3x,

I imagine that the the supplier and type and makeup of the flour (e.g., protein content) are a couple of those things. However, there is one thing that is public that has long puzzled me. Maybe you can tell me what John Schnatter says at 3:15 in the Facebook video at . The words to my aging ears sound like "flax river seed".

Peter

I think your ears are better than mine, Peter, because I was hearing "Five river seed" which makes less sense.

[Pete-zza]

black (plack) river seed? he is talking about the flour/type of wheat processed into flour.  if this is it, the wheat is coming from upstate NY roughly in the fort drum area.

edit 2:

further research suggests that he is implying black striped sunflower seeds, but sunflower oil is only used in the sauce.


either way, both are plausible

c0mpl3x,

This is not a new mystery. Its origins on the forum goes back a few years. See, for example, the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4584.msg38698.html#msg38698.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

I believe I have solved the mystery.

Today, I called Papa John's (1-888-404-7537) and spoke with Diane Helms (the PJ director of domestic R&D--same gal I have spoken to before), about the reference in the PJ Facebook video at to a particular kind of seed used to make the PJ flour. As previously noted, the reference is at about 3:15 in the video. I asked Diane what John Schnatter was saying about that seed. She said it is the Platte River seed. She went on to explain that that seed was developed specifically for PJs in order to achieve a particular flavor in the finished crust. The flour itself is a proprietary flour that is milled specifically for PJs and whoever does the milling for PJs is not permitted to sell the flour to anyone else. It is exclusive to PJs. Diane believes that the name Platte River was given to the flour by people who were involved in coming up with the particular seed used to make the flour. It is not something that someone can go and ask for and expect to end up with the PJ flour. A quick Google search shows that there is apparently a Platte River in Nebraska.

I also asked Diane about the protein content of the PJ flour. I specifically mentioned that at one time PJs promoted their flour as being a "high-gluten" flour. She said that that was still true. When I said that to me "high gluten" meant around 14% protein, she said "Well, it isn't quite that high". As I have mentioned before, I have suspected that PJ's flour was in the 13.0-14% range. I think that that may also be true of many of the large pizza chains. For one thing, it tends to lend itself better to a delivery type pizza than a pure high-gluten flour.

Peter

[c0mpl3x]

I believe I have solved the mystery.

Today, I called Papa John's (1-888-404-7537) and spoke with Diane Helms (the PJ director of domestic R&D--same gal I have spoken to before), about the reference in the PJ Facebook video at to a particular kind of seed used to make the PJ flour. As previously noted, the reference is at about 3:15 in the video. I asked Diane what John Schnatter was saying about that seed. She said it is the Platte River seed. She went on to explain that that seed was developed specifically for PJs in order to achieve a particular flavor in the finished crust. The flour itself is a proprietary flour that is milled specifically for PJs and whoever does the milling for PJs is not permitted to sell the flour to anyone else. It is exclusive to PJs. Diane believes that the name Platte River was given to the flour by people who were involved in coming up with the particular seed used to make the flour. It is not something that someone can go and ask for and expect to end up with the PJ flour. A quick Google search shows that there is apparently a Platte River in Nebraska.

I also asked Diane about the protein content of the PJ flour. I specifically mentioned that at one time PJs promoted their flour as being a "high-gluten" flour. She said that that was still true. When I said that to me "high gluten" meant around 14% protein, she said "Well, it isn't quite that high". As I have mentioned before, I have suspected that PJ's flour was in the 13.0-14% range. I think that that may also be true of many of the large pizza chains. For one thing, it tends to lend itself better to a delivery type pizza than a pure high-gluten flour.

Peter

further research, the flour is from kansas.   

http://www.facebook.com/papajohns?sk=videos

most of the info you need will be in the videos

[jmk3911]

  I wonder if corn "Masa" flour could be used to help open the dough balls in the same manner as the dustinator. It's really fine and a lot cheaper than semolina.

[Pete-zza]

I wonder if corn "Masa" flour could be used to help open the dough balls in the same manner as the dustinator. It's really fine and a lot cheaper than semolina.

jmk3011,

Masa corn flour contains lime but if that doesn't lead to an unpleasant flavor I think you should be able to combine it with regular flour to simulate a Dustinator blend. The Dustinator blend also contains some oil but I believe the oil is to keep the flours from going airborne and getting into the air conditioning systems used in the PJ stores.

Peter