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Author Topic: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA  (Read 186426 times)

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #380 on: September 14, 2011, 11:50:30 AM »
Mike,

Steve and I did weigh the mozzarella blend we used.  I posted at Reply 356 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg153005.html#msg153005  that we used ĺ lb. of the blended mozzarellas.  If anyone is interested we also used .778 lbs. of sauce.  In Steveís and my opinion, that amount of sauce was too much for the 18Ē Luigiís attempt, but we had already poured it on the opened skin after we weighed it, so there was no way of removing any sauce.

Norma

Norma,

Thanks for the amounts. I must have missed that in all this excitement  ;D

I still had two doughballs in the fridge of the Luigi #1 clone from Saturday and baked them off last night. First I thought the dough was blown and ready to be scrapped but I figured it can't hurt to re-ball and see what happens. Long story short, it was a great crust. Nice flavor, crunch and chew. The coloration wasn't bad, either.

One thing I noticed though was that the cheese started to break down. It created visible strains, almost like a net or web, on top of the pie. I don't know where that comes from or why that happens but it didn't look too good.

Overall, though, I think we're getting much closer to the original. And a longer fermentation is probably the way to go.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 02:35:40 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #381 on: September 14, 2011, 04:48:53 PM »
Mike,

After you gave a thumbs up for the Luigi clone pizza sauce formulation I came up with at Reply 228 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg152091.html#msg152091, I decided to go back to the Stanislaus website and to tighten up on my numbers for the Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree (http://www.stanislaus.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Pizza-Sauce.pdf) and the 7/11 Ground Tomatoes (http://www.stanislaus.com/_pdfs/7-11-Ground-Tomatoes.pdf). These are the only two Stanislaus tomato products that appear in photos taken of Luigiís pizzeria. I also decided to add the Escalon 6-in-1s, which you used, and the Tomato Magic (http://www.stanislaus.com/_pdfs/Tomato-Magic-Ground-Tomatoes.pdf), which is considered to be Stanislausí counterpart product to the 6-in-1s. The reason for doing the analysis is to come up with a set of bakerís percents that might be used to emulate Luigiís pizza sauce using any one of the above products in any desired weight.

For background purposes, here are the weights of the four tomato products mentioned above, in #10 cans:

Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree: 6 lb, 11 ounces (77 ounces/2182.95 grams)
7/11 Ground Tomatoes: 6 lb, 9 ounces (75 ounces/2126.25 grams)
Tomato Magic: 6 lb, 10 ounces (76 ounces/2154.6 grams)
Escalon 6-in-1s: 6 lb, 9 ounces (75 ounces/2126 grams)

As you can see, the four products have quite similar weights. You might also recall that we speculated from the video and photos that Luigi uses four #10 cans to tomatoes to make a batch of pizza sauce. My previous numbers were predicated on the Luigi pizza sauce being made from either the Stanislaus Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree or the 7/11 Ground Tomatoes, either alone or possibly in combination, but totaling four #10 cans. Since these two products are similar in weight, as are the other two tomato products, I think it is safe to use a number like 76 ounces (2154.6 grams) times four for bakerís percent calculation purposes for the tomatoes. So, the tomato part of the bakerís percent recipe is 304 ounces/8618.4 grams). It shouldnít matter much which of the above four products is used or the quantities. One can use a single #10 can or a single 28-ounce can of tomatoes, or any other weight.

Based on the weights of the various sauce ingredients I used to come up with the Luigi clone pizza sauce, this is what I get as a generic bakerís percent version:

100%, Stanislaus or Escalon fresh-pack tomatoes (any weight, in ounces or grams)
0.04%, Crushed red pepper flakes
0.093%, Greek oregano leaves (bottled)
0.13%, Salt (table salt, Mortonís)
0.04%, Ground black pepper
0.35%, Garlic powder, McCormick's
0.67%, Grated Parmesan cheese
0.08%, Fresh, chopped basil

To give a simple example using a 28-ounce (793.8 grams) can of tomatoes, the amounts of the ingredients to use are as follows:

28-ounces (793.8 grams) of canned tomatoes
0.32 grams Crushed red pepper flakes (this will be about 2-3 pinches)
0.74 grams Greek oregano (bottled)
1 gram Salt (table salt, Mortonís)
0.32 grams Ground black pepper
2.78 grams Garlic powder, McCormick's
5.3 grams Grated Parmesan cheese
0.64 grams Fresh, chopped basil
Total weight of seasoning mix (without the tomatoes): 11.1 grams

As one can see, the bigger the pizza sauce batch size, the easier the numbers get to work with and to weigh out the ingredients. It is perhaps possible to make up a much larger quantity of seasoning mix, except for the fresh, chopped basil, and store it in a dry place. However, the grated Parmesan cheese will have to be amenable to incorporation into the seasoning mix and not go bad during storage. Of course, the grated Parmesan cheese can be added later along with the fresh, chopped basil. If a particular seasoning works for someone, the weighed quantities can be converted to volume measurements. Those conversions will vary by the brands of the ingredients, and sometimes the forms of the ingredients, so unless one uses generic conversion data such as available at the nutrition.self.com website, the conversions will have to be done on a case-by-case basis. Some tweaking of ingredient quantities may also be called for to suit individual tastes.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 03:10:50 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #382 on: September 14, 2011, 05:05:43 PM »
Mike,

After you gave a thumbs up for the Luigi clone pizza sauce formulation I came up with at Reply 228 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14928.msg152091.html#msg152091, I decided to go back to the Stanislaus website and to tighten up on my numbers for the Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree (http://www.stanislaus.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Pizza-Sauce.pdf) and the 7/11 Ground Tomatoes (http://www.stanislaus.com/_pdfs/7-11-Ground-Tomatoes.pdf). These are the only two Stanislaus tomato products that appear in photos taken of Luigiís pizzeria. I also decided to add the Escalon 6-in-1s, which you used, and the Tomato Magic (http://www.stanislaus.com/_pdfs/Tomato-Magic-Ground-Tomatoes.pdf), which is considered to be Stanislausí counterpart product to the 6-in-1s. The reason for doing the analysis is to come up with a set of bakerís percents that might be used to emulate Luigiís pizza sauce using any one of the above products in any desired weight.

For background purposes, here are the weights of the four tomato products mentioned above, in #10 cans:

Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree: 6 lb, 11 ounces (77 ounces/2182.95 grams)
7/11 Ground Tomatoes: 6 lb, 9 ounces (75 ounces/2126.25 grams)
Tomato Magic: 6 lb, 10 ounces (76 ounces/2154.6 grams)
Escalon 6-in-1s: 6 lb, 9 ounces (75 ounces/2126 grams)

As you can see, the four products have quite similar weights. You might also recall that we speculated from the video and photos that Luigi uses four #10 cans to tomatoes to make a batch of pizza sauce. My previous numbers were predicated on the Luigi pizza sauce being made from either the Stanislaus Full-Red Extra Heavy Tomato Puree or the 7/11 Ground Tomatoes, either alone or possibly in combination, but totaling four #10 cans. Since these two products are similar in weight, as are the other two tomato products, I think it is safe to use a number like 76 ounces (2154.6 grams) times four for bakerís percent calculation purposes for the tomatoes. So, the tomato part of the bakerís percent recipe is 304 ounces/8618.4 grams). It shouldnít matter much which of the above four products is used or the quantities. One can use a single #10 can or a single 28-ounce can of tomatoes, or any other weight.

Based on the weights of the various sauce ingredients I used to come up with the Luigi clone pizza sauce, this is what I get as a generic bakerís percent version:

100%, Stanislaus or Escalon fresh-pack tomatoes (any weight, in ounces or grams)
0.04%, Red pepper flakes
0.093%, Greek oregano leaves (bottled)
0.13%, Salt (table salt, Mortonís)
0.04%, Ground black pepper
0.35%, Garlic powder
0.67%, Grated Parmesan cheese
0.08%, Fresh, chopped basil

To give a simple example using a 28-ounce (793.8 grams) can of tomatoes, the amounts of the ingredients to use are as follows:

28-ounces (793.8 grams) of canned tomatoes
0.32 grams Red pepper flakes (this will be about 2-3 pinches)
0.74 grams Greek oregano (bottled)
1 gram Salt (table salt, Mortonís)
0.32 grams Ground black pepper
2.78 grams Garlic powder
5.3 grams Grated Parmesan cheese
0.64 grams Fresh, chopped basil
Total weight of seasoning mix (without the tomatoes): 11.1 grams

As one can see, the bigger the pizza sauce batch size, the easier the numbers get to work with and to weigh out the ingredients. It is perhaps possible to make up a much larger quantity of seasoning mix, except for the fresh, chopped basil, and store it in a dry place. However, the grated Parmesan cheese will have to be amenable to incorporation into the seasoning mix and not go bad during storage. Of course, the grated Parmesan cheese can be added later along with the fresh, chopped basil. If a particular seasoning works for someone, the weighed quantities can be converted to volume measurements. Those conversions will vary by the brands of the ingredients, and sometimes the forms of the ingredients, so unless one uses generic conversion data such as available at the nutrition.self.com website, the conversions will have to be done on a case-by-case basis. Some tweaking of ingredient quantities may also be called for to suit individual tastes.

Peter


Peter,

This is fantastic! Thanks so much for posting the numbers.

I'm waiting for my new digital scale to come in, which should be here by tomorrow, and will give this formula a go with the exact numbers you just posted. Luigi's sauce is dynamite, like I said before, and my taste testers have also agreed on that.

I usually make batches of sauce using two cans of 28oz 6-in-1s so doubling the numbers will be a breeze. I'll test the sauce again this weekend since I got a couple of pizza requests in from two neighbors.

I have also another question...what could cause the breakdown of the mozzarella last night? It didn't look very good nor very aesthetic.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #383 on: September 14, 2011, 06:32:57 PM »


Overall, though, I think we're getting much closer to the original. And a longer fermentation is probably the way to go.



Mike,

I think you are right, that a longer fermentation time is probably the way to go.  Since your latest experiments using a longer fermented Luigi's clone dough, I am sure your crust tasted better than mine.  :)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #384 on: September 14, 2011, 06:34:51 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for doing the numbers for the Luigiís clone pizza sauce formulation.  I just got a call from Stanislaus a few weeks ago, asking if I wanted to try out any of their products.  They said they would send samples. I didnít know of any samples at the time I wanted to try. In the next few weeks, I will ask for a few samples and report back when I have time to try your Luigiís clone pizza sauce formulation.

Norma

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #385 on: September 15, 2011, 03:54:41 PM »
PE101,

Got the new scale in.

It's a AWS-100 and comes with a 10 year warranty. Measures in grams, ounces, carats and grains, up to a 1/100th of a gram.

Just to keep you posted...
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #386 on: September 15, 2011, 07:51:22 PM »
Peter,

I'll be getting a 7/11 #10 can tomorrow from my pizza guy for the Luigi clone sauce. I will report back on the taste and flavor differences between the 6-in-1s and the 7/11s.

Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #387 on: September 15, 2011, 08:35:43 PM »
Peter,

I'll be getting a 7/11 #10 can tomorrow from my pizza guy for the Luigi clone sauce. I will report back on the taste and flavor differences between the 6-in-1s and the 7/11s.

Mike,

That's great. Do you plan to use just a part of the can, say, 28 ounces worth, just to test the seasonings before deciding what to do with the rest of the can?

Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #388 on: September 15, 2011, 09:47:27 PM »
Mike,

That's great. Do you plan to use just a part of the can, say, 28 ounces worth, just to test the seasonings before deciding what to do with the rest of the can?

Peter

Peter,

I have three requests for pizza on the weekend, up from two, so I might as well use 56oz worth of 7/11s for the sauce. I was thinking about freezing the rest but don't really know if that's a good idea nor do I know how the tomatoes will hold up in a freezer.

It's the first time I'll be using them so any info or tip is appreciated.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 11:43:42 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #389 on: September 15, 2011, 10:26:55 PM »
Mike,

I donít know how you will like the 7/11 tomato sauce compared to 6 in 1 sauce, but I have used the 7/11 sauce before with good results in adding other ingredients and then freezing the sauce.  I have added all the other ingredients, except the fresh basil when freezing.  Will be interesting to see what you think of the 7/11 sauce compared to the 6 in 1 sauce.

Norma

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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #390 on: September 15, 2011, 11:28:43 PM »
Mike, that scale is impressive.  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for it.  I have not ordered yet but will.  I don't want to "wing" it anymore.  I want to really be precise as can be and that scale will do it for me.  That's a great looking instrument.

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #391 on: September 15, 2011, 11:40:59 PM »
Mike, that scale is impressive.  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for it.  I have not ordered yet but will.  I don't want to "wing" it anymore.  I want to really be precise as can be and that scale will do it for me.  That's a great looking instrument.

PE101,

What you see on the scale is the smallest watch battery I was able to find in our store. I'm sure we have smaller ones but this one clocked in at 0.16 grams. I also measured a tiny wheel from a Rolex movement and that measured 0.07 grams.

The scale is more than capable of weighing even the smallest amounts of yeast, salt, sugar or even a fly.  ;D

I'm pretty happy with it so far.
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #392 on: September 15, 2011, 11:42:02 PM »
Mike,

I donít know how you will like the 7/11 tomato sauce compared to 6 in 1 sauce, but I have used the 7/11 sauce before with good results in adding other ingredients and then freezing the sauce.  I have added all the other ingredients, except the fresh basil when freezing.  Will be interesting to see what you think of the 7/11 sauce compared to the 6 in 1 sauce.

Norma

Norma,

Thanks for the heads-up on the freezing. When you froze it, did you notice any loss of flavor afterwards, though?
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #393 on: September 16, 2011, 07:46:47 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for the heads-up on the freezing. When you froze it, did you notice any loss of flavor afterwards, though?

Mike,

Although I donít use a combination of 7/11 and Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce anymore, and donít use the fresh ingredients I had used before, I used to use the two Stanislaus products together (7/11 and Saporito Heavy Duty pizza sauce with basil) and froze what ever was left from market each week.  I posted how I used to make my pizza sauce in comparison to using Walmart Great Value products at the monthly challenge in December 2009 at Reply 2 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9744.msg85554.html#msg85554
I found no matter what Stanislaus product I use, they all can be frozen without any loss in taste.  I usually freeze whatever pizza sauce is leftover from a Tuesday in quart food-safe containers. and then just let them defrost for one day for market the next week.  I have also saved some of the frozen sauces, and defrosted them for home made pizzas many times, even for months.  There never seems like there is a loss in flavor of the pizza sauces made with Stanislaus products.  I donít know if my freezer makes any difference or not in the freezing and defrosting, but my freezer isnít a one that defrosts itself.  I need to manually defrost my freezer.

I am interested in your results.  :)

One of these days I want to get a scale that can weigh small amounts like your new scale.  I agree with James that your new scale is impressive!  ;D

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #394 on: September 16, 2011, 09:03:26 AM »
Since I posted I was going to try the ADM Gigantic Flour with another flour for a LuigiĎs #2 formula, lets see if I got the numbers correct if use GM Harvest King flour in combination with the ADM Gigantic high-gluten flour. Protein for the ADM Gigantic high gluten flour seems to be 14% http://www.adm.com/en-US/Milling/USWheat/Pages/Gigantic.aspx  and the Harvest King protein seems to be between 11.7-12.3% protein.  I used 12% for the Harvest King flour in The mixed mass percentage calculator. I did lower the amount of ADY, so I can see if that let me ferment the dough longer, for a better taste in the crust.

Formula below

Edit:  I had the wrong amount of the ADM Gigantic flour on my formula.  Peter later found my mistake.  The ADM amount should have been 232.3875 grams.

Norma
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 01:32:03 PM by norma427 »

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #395 on: September 16, 2011, 12:34:59 PM »
Mike,

Although I donít use a combination of 7/11 and Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce anymore, and donít use the fresh ingredients I had used before, I used to use the two Stanislaus products together (7/11 and Saporito Heavy Duty pizza sauce with basil) and froze what ever was left from market each week.  I posted how I used to make my pizza sauce in comparison to using Walmart Great Value products at the monthly challenge in December 2009 at Reply 2 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9744.msg85554.html#msg85554
I found no matter what Stanislaus product I use, they all can be frozen without any loss in taste.  I usually freeze whatever pizza sauce is leftover from a Tuesday in quart food-safe containers. and then just let them defrost for one day for market the next week.  I have also saved some of the frozen sauces, and defrosted them for home made pizzas many times, even for months.  There never seems like there is a loss in flavor of the pizza sauces made with Stanislaus products.  I donít know if my freezer makes any difference or not in the freezing and defrosting, but my freezer isnít a one that defrosts itself.  I need to manually defrost my freezer.

I am interested in your results.  :)

One of these days I want to get a scale that can weigh small amounts like your new scale.  I agree with James that your new scale is impressive!  ;D

Norma

Norma,

Thanks a bunch for the info and link. It's good to know that the 7/11 tomatoes can be frozen and thawed without significant loss in flavor. I'll post my results over the coming weekend.

Regarding the scale, it works flawlessly. I had to measure a small yeast amount last night and the scale's very accurate.

I bought it here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012LOQUQ/?tag=pmak-20
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 05:37:44 PM by Essen1 »
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #396 on: September 16, 2011, 01:50:19 PM »
Since I posted I was going to try the ADM Gigantic Flour with another flour for a LuigiĎs #2 formula, lets see if I got the numbers correct if use GM Harvest King flour in combination with the ADM Gigantic high-gluten flour. Protein for the ADM Gigantic high gluten flour seems to be 14% http://www.adm.com/en-US/Milling/USWheat/Pages/Gigantic.aspx  and the Harvest King protein seems to be between 11.7-12.3% protein.  I used 12% for the Harvest King flour in The mixed mass percentage calculator.

Norma,

It looks like you did everything right but I believe you misread 232.3875 as 282.3875.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 05:04:09 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #397 on: September 16, 2011, 04:49:51 PM »
Norma,

It looks like you did everything right but I believe you misread 232.3875 as 283.3875.

Peter

Peter,

You are right, I somehow misread or copied the wrong number for the ADM Gigantic flour.  Thanks for finding the mistake.  That would have made a difference in the Luigi's #2 attempt.

Norma

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #398 on: September 16, 2011, 05:38:58 PM »
Peter,

You are right, I somehow misread or copied the wrong number for the ADM Gigantic flour.  Thanks for finding the mistake.  That would have made a difference in the Luigi's #2 attempt.

Norma

Norma,

Looking forward to your results!
Mike

ďAll styles of pizza are valid. I make the best Iím capable of; you should make the best youíre capable of. I donít want to make somebody elseís pizza.Ē ~ Chris Bianco

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Re: Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego, CA
« Reply #399 on: September 16, 2011, 05:55:24 PM »
Norma,

Looking forward to your results!

Mike,

Thanks!  I sure don't know how the Luigi's #2  formula will work out for me, but I would like to get a better taste in the crust, something like you did when you baked your other dough balls.  I am always fouling up on numbers. I had checked where I had my scratch pad, and must have been distracted and copied my one number wrong.  If it wasn't for Peter checking what I did, my results would have been skewed.  :-D

Norma

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