Chicago Thin - a labor of love

[vcb]

wow, pizza in bags!  i've only seen that one other time in my life, and it was at Carbone's on Raldolph Ave. in Saint Paul, MN.  Seems virtually everyone is using boxes these days!

There's a few places in Chicago that are still delivering pizza in those paper bags.

[Pizza3.14]

Like many of us have done I"m sure.  I have the dough in the fridge now.  It is undivided for the 24 hour bulk fermentation.  I followed your recipe and for the procedure I used KAAP flour and a kitchen aid for most but ended up having to hand kneed the dough.  I dissolved the salt and sugar in the water added flour and yeast.  Then mixed it until is started to come together.  When I added the oil it picked up all of the flour but the hook just spun the mass around.  This is why I had to hand kneed.  I used room temp water and the final dough temp was 74F. I also used 3% bowl residue to help get whole numbers on the yeast as my scale only measures to whole gram weights. 

Tomorrow I'll divide and ball the dough and return to the fridge.  I plan on making the sauce tomorrow as well.  I hope to bake on Monday evening. 

[Garvey]

Nicely done, Pizza3.14.  Looking forward to seeing the final product.

Word to the wise on the sauce: if you can, make it right before baking or same day and leave it out at room temp.  If made too far ahead and refrigerated, it seems to take forever to come back to room temp.  And all of those dried leaf herbs will absorb some of the moisture so that you may have to mix some water back in to get it to spreadable again (cold paste with the herbs tends to congeal/thicken a bit).  I'll add this to the recipe.

Also, for the dough, I tend to dump all the dry ingredients into the KitchenAid bowl, mix it up, then dump in the liquids and turn on the mixer until it just comes together.  Then I'll let it sit for 20 minutes, covered, to hydrate, and then resume with kneading until windowpane stage (5-10 mins).

This is excellent feedback.  Making this pizza is second nature to me.  Writing for other people to replicate it takes some doing.

Cheers,
Garvey

[pizzard]

Your pizza looks wonderful...and yes, I love the pizza bag.  I'm curious about your oven...is it gas, or electric.  I'm guessing gas, but will feel empowered to get to work on your recipe this weekend if you say electric. 

I do think there is a difference between the two cooking methods.  We have a new electric oven, and I'm having of tough time getting the texture right on the crust.  It is a GE Profile, and even has a special setting for pizza, but I've tried cutter pans, stones, and cooking right on the rack, and just end up with chewy, flimsy pizza...no crunch. 

Thoughts?

[buceriasdon]

pizzard, Have you tried to dock, parbake, apply toppings, then do a final bake on a stone?
Don

Your pizza looks wonderful...and yes, I love the pizza bag.  I'm curious about your oven...is it gas, or electric.  I'm guessing gas, but will feel empowered to get to work on your recipe this weekend if you say electric. 

I do think there is a difference between the two cooking methods.  We have a new electric oven, and I'm having of tough time getting the texture right on the crust.  It is a GE Profile, and even has a special setting for pizza, but I've tried cutter pans, stones, and cooking right on the rack, and just end up with chewy, flimsy pizza...no crunch. 

Thoughts?

[buceriasdon]

Garvey, With some alterations I mixed up enough dough for three ten inchers for Sunday night or perhaps even Saturday. I bulk ferment in the fridge then divide and allow to come to room temp. I replaced a third of the water with whole milk and used 2% salt so it's not quite the same recipe. The sauce will also be different as I have no tomato paste, tomato puree only.
Don

[BTB]

Garvey, good looking thin crust pizza.  Reminds me a bit of Nino's in Roseland.  But the Pizza Factory I was not familiar with and I thought I knew of most or many of the south side or south suburban pizza places.  Where was the Pizza Factory located?  Nice job and I hope many of our members try out your formulations and report their thoughts and comments here.           --BTB 

[Pizza3.14]

The dough is in the Kitchen Aid bowl so I don't have to worry about it getting to big yet.  Did you punch it down to keep it from filling your container or as part of your procedure? 

Thanks for the specifics on the sauce.  I went out and got the few items I was missing to be sure I followed your recipe exactly.  I will make it day of.  I plan on giving it the 72 hours, was that what you found the sweet spot to be?  I would like to try it on Sunday evening if you think it is ok then.  It will be at about the 57 hour mark. 

pic of the dough about 10 hours in. 

[Garvey]

@pizzard: sorry, I have a gas oven.  Wish I could help you out on the electric situation.  My buddy has an old electric and he preheats two stones--one high(-ish) and one low(-ish)--at 500 for at least an hour and then bakes the pies right on the stone.  Start at the top stone and if it gets too brown on top, move it to the bottom stone for finishing.

@Don: well, sounds like you got your own thing going on,  but at least maybe the spice blend will be something new for you.

@BTB: Pizza Factory was in Highland, IN, just south of 80-94 and a few blocks from Hammond.  Similar style to Hammond's House of Pizza.

@Pizza3.14: I'm surprised you don't have more rising action so far.  Yes, I punch down whenever it doubles, which is usually a couple times in the first 24 hrs or as needed.  I have some high quality IDY that I get in bulk from Sam's Club that has serious rising action.  As for timing, I think you'll get great results at 57 hrs.  I baked four pizzas tonight with dough I made on Tues. (i.e., 72 hrs), and it was quite to my liking.  I think 57 hrs should be very similar. 

[pythonic]

Garvey,

Excellent pie sir and i love your delivery method.  On the yeast you are using is it a fresh cake yeast?  What kind of oil do you use in the dough?

[Garvey]

Pythonic, thanks for the feedback.  My yeast is Fleischmann's IDY, sold in two, 1-lb vac-packs at Sam's. Great stuff.  As for oil, I've made it every which way.  Olive, corn, canola, vegetable...and the results have all been good.  That being said, I lean towards corn anymore.

[pythonic]

anikun07, i hope you don't mind if I add a few comments.    if you're looking for more flavor in your cheese, you can try blending provolone and/or white cheddar with your mozzarella (that will also improve the creaminess and IME stretchiness, although some say it's the mozza that gives the stretchiness).  For nicely-browned cheese like Garvey has, you can try moving your pie from the bottom to the top of the oven partway through cooking, or perhaps turning on the broiler for the last couple of minutes of cooking.

cheese was the limiting factor on my pies for at least a few years.  Then I stumbled upon something where Pete-zza mentioned the use of the provolone/cheddar/mozza blend, and my pies have been awesome ever since!

CDNpielover,

What is the cheese blend ratio that pete mentioned?

[pythonic]

Pythonic, thanks for the feedback.  My yeast is Fleischmann's IDY, sold in two, 1-lb vac-packs at Sam's. Great stuff.  As for oil, I've made it every which way.  Olive, corn, canola, vegetable...and the results have all been good.  That being said, I lean towards corn anymore.

Ok grt, i just whipped a batch and guessed corn oil.  I'll post pics in a few days and give u some reviews.

[pythonic]

Garvey,

What store are you finding polly-o at in illinois?

[Garvey]

Pythonic, sorry, I'm down South now and don't know about IL stores anymore. If I still lived anywhere near Chicago, I wouldn't have to go to such great lengths to have good pizza: I'd just pick up the phone and order one from any number of places.  And I'd weigh 50 lbs more.  ;-)

[CDNpielover]

CDNpielover,

What is the cheese blend ratio that pete mentioned?

pythonic,

It was 50:30:20 mozza:white cheddar:provolone. I think Pete used it for a specific pizza clone (PJ perhaps?);but I use it on all of my pizzas.  Since I started making pizzas, cheese was the main thing limiting the quality...  I used many different brands of mozza from all different price points, and it always turned out really SUCKY.  the blend is awesome though, and i find that it's still awesome regardless of what brand/price of cheese you use.  I actually bought a giant brick of private label "pizza mozza" recently, and when it's blended it works just the same as the Saputo Mozzarellissima that costs 2x the price!!!     

[pizzard]

pizzard, Have you tried to dock, parbake, apply toppings, then do a final bake on a stone?
Don

I have tried the above methods at one time or another.  I suspect that my dough is too thin for the sauce, so I think I will try Garvey's recipe, and see about a tomato paste base sauce. 

This past summer I cooked some pizzas on the Emille Henry pizza stone (for outdoor grills).  Amazing...the flavors were so pizzeriaesq.  Here is the link http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-690982/Emile-Henry-Red-Flame-Top-Pizza-Stone

I received this for Mother's Day...my friends couldn't believe this is what I wanted.

[buceriasdon]

pizzard, You perhaps should also try a longer bake time lower in the oven. Is the cheese getting too much color before the bottom is browned?
Don

[goosen1]

pizzard, You perhaps should also try a longer bake time lower in the oven. Is the cheese getting too much color before the bottom is browned?
Don

Oh no... That's a perfect char on the cheese for a thin crust!!!! That's what makes the pizza so original.

[buceriasdon]

Garvey, The changes I made to your recipe are brought about by my experience with my counter top oven to achieve better browning. My motto "Know thy oven". I'll get some pics posted later.
Don