Looking for a Cleveland Oh dough recipe

Started by tberichon, April 21, 2012, 09:17:31 AM

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tberichon

Today's test

Bouncer High Gluten    100%   /   18oz
Hydration                    56%      /    10 oz
Salt Kosher                  2.5%    /    .45 oz or 2 tsp
Yeast IDY Fleishmans      .5%   /    .14 oz or 1 tsp

Mixed and balled 2 doughs at 14oz each, rested for a few hours then rolled into 10" circle, placed on 12" oiled pan.
in fridge for 4-24 hours.



Timpanogos Slim

Quote from: tberichon on January 30, 2023, 07:30:45 AM
Thanks for the interest guys.
I will try the recipe that fredb added but a few thoughts.

I converted the recipe to bakers %

Hydration 68%
Salt             3%
Oil/Butter    5%
Yeast... I will use .5%IDY

Hydration and salt appear higher than most recipes. And I cannot believe any pizza chain could afford to put butter in their dough recipe. I will attempt another test this week using this as a starting point.

Does anyone remember adding sugar to any of the pizza places they worked at in Cleveland?
TB

Well, there is that rumor that some pizza operators use Whirl butter-flavored oil in their dough, or in the pans.
There are many kinds of pizza, and *Most of them can be really good.
- Eric

OhioGuy

I can definitely shed some light on the dough. This isn't for a Guido's but for a local chain that will remain nameless.
50 # bag flour-dont know what type
12 Qts water
3 C whole milk
3 C. oil blend
salt & sugar-cant remember amounts. It was more sugar than salt
1 # block fresh yeast.

Ive been trying to scale this down with no real luck. As far as the pans it was greased with the same oil blend that was used in the dough. After the dough mixed it was sheeted by weight and put on each pan (S, M & L) and CF for 24 hours.
Hope this helps keep me posted.

tberichon

#23
This is the closest I have come to the chewy/crunchy texture I am looking for.
Baked at 450 for 13 minutes on preheated steel. I could have cooked a few minutes longer as I like mine slightly well done.
I will cook the second dough tomorrow to see if the ferment can add any character that we are looking for.

I will break down the 50 lb recipe on my matrix and attempt later this week. Milk is another addition that i question in today's cost saving measures, but only 3 cups not that big of a deal.
When did you work there?

tberichon

100%   Flour
48%   Water
2.50%   Sugar
1.50%   Salt
0.800%   Yeast
3.00%   Milk
3.00%   Oil

I used the sugar and salt % from my days at Trio's. I will make later this week when I am back in town

A D V E R T I S E M E N T



OhioGuy

I worked at the same pizza place off and on from about mid 90's- early 00's. I have asked Guidos Ravenna and Guidos Kent if either use milk and both have said no. The sauce question will get a little more complicated. I know the place I worked did not cook their sauce, which is quite common. I'm positive Guidos Kent does cook their sauce and I'm pretty confident Ravenna does as well.

Let me know the measurements on the dough after you scale it down and I'll run a test batch This weekend.


tberichon

Ohio Guy
My response on thread 25 is your recipe by bakers %.
I can break it down to actual amounts later this week and we can do test batch this weekend.

fredb44118

Quote from: tberichon on January 30, 2023, 07:30:45 AM
Thanks for the interest guys.
I will try the recipe that fredb added but a few thoughts.

I converted the recipe to bakers %

Hydration 68%
Salt             3%
Oil/Butter    5%
Yeast... I will use .5%IDY

Hydration and salt appear higher than most recipes. And I cannot believe any pizza chain could afford to put butter in their dough recipe. I will attempt another test this week using this as a starting point.


You're right about the butter! I should have mentioned it, but Michael from Master Pizza has gone on record for using shortening in his dough recipe. So, that's what I've been using instead of butter... Crisco shortening. Planning on trying butter flavored Crisco soon (do they still even sell that?).

And I agree it's nice to get this thread going again after a 10 year hibernation :)

Timpanogos Slim

Quote from: fredb44118 on February 04, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
You're right about the butter! I should have mentioned it, but Michael from Master Pizza has gone on record for using shortening in his dough recipe. So, that's what I've been using instead of butter... Crisco shortening. Planning on trying butter flavored Crisco soon (do they still even sell that?).

And I agree it's nice to get this thread going again after a 10 year hibernation :)

They do.

I buy the crisco sticks, and store them in the freezer. The sealed ones should keep indefinitely at freezer temperatures. The one you broke the seal on, maybe only a couple years wrapped tightly until it is a little weird.

There are many kinds of pizza, and *Most of them can be really good.
- Eric

tberichon

Yes, we used shortening back in the late 70's too. My memory is around 11 oz to 25 lb bag of flour that comes to just under 3% shortening bakers %. Our pizza was softer than I preferred so my future test will have less than 2% for sure.

Wondering if shortening makes a difference compared to vegetable oil?

I read its recommended to add the oil after the dough is hydrated, but with shortening it can be added at the beginning?
Just thinking out loud

A D V E R T I S E M E N T



OhioGuy

I can see some mom & pop shops using crisco to grease the pans but not to mix in with the dough. The local chain I worked at we used a veg oil/olive oil blend. That was mostly veg oil and only like 5-10% olive oil.
Maybe I missed something in the above posts but I don't see a reason for a butter flavored anything in pizza. 
Whats odd to me is the chain I worked at used equal parts milk and oil in the dough. I asked Guido's Kent and Ravenna if they use milk and they both said - NO- with a scornful look at me. lol. Maybe the milk helps with the browning?

DDGNY

I grew up in Parma Heights during the 60s and 70s, my favorite pizza places back then were Angie's Master Pizza and Stefano's, both on W130th by Southland Shopping Center, and Mama Mia's on Pleasant Valley near York Rd. Francesca's on Pearl Rd. and W130th was okay. All of them are gone now, but Stancato's on State Rd. at Pleasant Valley is still going strong, the attached pictures are from their web site. I ate NY style pizza for 40 years while living in NY's Mid-Hudson Valley, Baba Louie's (Hudson, NY and Great Barrington, MA) was my favorite, they have a sourdough crust and wood fired oven. A few months ago, I moved back to Parma Heights, and I personally prefer Cleveland pizza. I'm a novice pizza maker using an Emile Henry stone in a gas oven, I buy Heinen's wheat dough and Mutti pizza sauce, the results are pretty good. The one place that I don't like is Antonio's at Parmatown, they add too much sugar to their tomato sauce.

DDGNY

Here's one I recently made on my square shaped stone. I like the Hormel turkey pepperoni, it doesn't render out much fat and the edges curl up and get that crispiness and nice flavor. 

pizzapartee

That thickness factor did you use on this? Interesting style of pizza. It's a pan pizza but not quite as thick as something like a pizza hut pan pizza it seems. Maybe slightly thicker than a grandma pie? I like the defined edge crust, too.

Quote from: tberichon on April 21, 2012, 10:20:38 PM
Here is one i baked tonight. It was very close on flavor but i am looking for a denser, chewier crust. My next attempt may be to increase the oil a few % and decrease the water a few%. Also increasing the oil in pan to "fry" the crust a little.
Any thoughts?

tberichon

Pizza looks great.
Heinen's makes  decent dough and so does Trader Joe's.

It's fun to experiment with the different dough recipes on this site. I typically make New York and Detroit style because it feeds more hungry people.

Still working on the Cleveland pan style that i remember in the 70's and 80's

A D V E R T I S E M E N T



fredb44118

Hi guys... Took some time off from pizza making over the summer, but I'm back to my Cleveland style pizza experiment. My latest one came out pretty good. Here's the recipe:

Cleveland Style Dough (for 2 12" pizzas):

500 grams King Arthur bread flour
330 grams room temp water
30 grams Crisco shortening
1/2 teaspoon Fleischmann's instant dry yeast
1/2 teaspoon sugar
1 teaspoon diastatic malt powder (optional)
15 grams salt

Add all ingredients except salt to KitchenAid mixer. Using dough hook, knead on "stir" for 2 minutes, then on "2" speed for 3 minutes. Rest dough (autolyse) for 20-30 minutes, covered.

After resting, sprinkle salt on dough, then continue to knead for another 10 minutes on "2" speed.

Remove dough hook, cover and let rise for 1-2 hours. Divide dough into two equal pieces, folding over a few times into dough ball. Ferment in lightly greased containers in refrigerator for at least 12 hours and up to 24 hours.

Remove from fridge 3-4 hours before baking at room temperature.

Assembly and baking:

Press and stretch dough out to the upper edges of a greased (using Crisco) 12" aluminum pizza pan.

Top with ~1 cup of your favorite sauce, plus 8 oz. of freshly grated provolone (please don't buy pre-shredded). Provolone, or a provolone/mozzarella blend is crucial for that "Cleveland Style" pizzaria flavor.

Bake at 500⁰ for 12-14 minutes, then remove from pan and cool on a wire rack for a few minutes. Check bottom for desired browning and doneness.

Here's one from last weekend.

fredb44118

Quote from: tberichon on February 28, 2023, 10:41:12 AM
Yes, we used shortening back in the late 70's too. My memory is around 11 oz to 25 lb bag of flour that comes to just under 3% shortening bakers %. Our pizza was softer than I preferred so my future test will have less than 2% for sure.

Wondering if shortening makes a difference compared to vegetable oil?

I read its recommended to add the oil after the dough is hydrated, but with shortening it can be added at the beginning?
Just thinking out loud

According to "Dough Doctor" Tom Lehmann, the shortening can be added at the beginning of the process because it acts differently than oil. Read here: https://pizzatoday.com/topics/dough-production-development/dough-doctor-the-long-and-short-of-it/

kori

Quote from: fredb44118 on October 03, 2023, 12:30:39 PM
Hi guys... Took some time off from pizza making over the summer.....

....Here's one from last weekend.
I like that cheese melt, pie looks great!
I SMILE AND WAVE....
Inhale pizza, exhale negativity.

Pizza Party Emozione, Pizza Party Bollore, Halo Versa 16 ready for duty!

fredb44118


pizzahead714

Finally got around the following the recipe above; I was able to room ferment for only 6 hours or so, so I doubled the yeast. It came out pretty good, but I figure a longer CF would result in some improvement in dough flavor. The shortening definitely made for a softer dough (which I liked). I used Crisco to coat the pan, but maybe should have used more, as the bottom crust seems to have absorbed it and I came out dryer than I'd like (gotta increase the grease factor!). Maybe use olive oil?

A D V E R T I S E M E N T