Author Topic: New York Style - Attempting Glutenboy's Dough  (Read 5853 times)

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Offline Tatoosh

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New York Style - Attempting Glutenboy's Dough
« on: June 03, 2012, 09:10:16 AM »
I have been reading Glutenboy's thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6370.msg54582.html#msg54582; and want to try it here in the Philippines.  However a number of things will have to be modified.  I don't have the higher quality unbleached & unbromated flour, so Gold Medal AP will have to stand in.  And no Kitchen Aid, so part of the work will be done by a bread machine set to the dough cycle. 

Here is the procedure as I understand it:

1140g flour (100%)
26g salt (2.2807%)
7g ADY (.61403%)
750g H2O (65.78947%)

So 1140 grams is around 7 or 7 1/2 cups, but I will weigh, just making sure the bread machine will handle it. If not, I will need to halve the recipe and do it in two batches.

1. Mix 2/3 of flour and balance of the ingredients, reserving 1/3 of the flour.
2. Rest for five minutes
3. Put in bread machine
4. Add rest of flour
5. Run Bread Machine until it is all incorporated (time uncertain)
6. Remove from Bread Machine
7. Hand knead until smooth
8. Rise on counter covered for 2 hours
9. Scale and Ball
10. Refrigerate in containers overnight
11. Degas and reform balls.  - Okay, what is degassing? - gently punching down without too much kneading?
12. Refrigerate for 4 to 8 days, with 5 days being the target for best flavor

I am looking to use this dough on a Weber/Pizza Kettle setup with a pizza stone that will be about 600F.  Commercial cheese, homemade sauce, and meat toppings (sausage or pepperoni will be pre-cooked).  I am shooting for a semi New York Neapolitan style, though we've never rolled or stretched that style out before.  We don't have a good table for stretching dough on.  I have a stainless prep table, but dough tends to stick on it.  I will try it on our wooden kitchen table, but it has a durocoat plastic style finish that is pretty grabby too.  From watching videos, it looks like we will need a smooth but slippery surface.  Marble is ideal but all the marble I've found here is coated, so I think that will probably defeat the purpose.   
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Re: New York Style - Attempting Glutenboy's Dough
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2012, 09:46:04 AM »
I would think the marble has only a sealer applied which shouldn't cause a problem. I hear you on stainless being somewhat sticky though I have learned to open dough balls now on it, however I use screens to start out the bake on so excess flour falls though. At my home I use a granite slab which I love.

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: New York Style - Attempting Glutenboy's Dough
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 01:09:08 PM »
As this is the best dough on the board without using a starter, and I just made a batch of 3 balls Friday for  later in the week, thought I'd chime in.

1. At least try and get King Arthur's unbleached bread flour, light blue bag. Readily available in most grocers.

2. Lose the bread machine, get a big metal bowl and follow rest below. My mixer broke after I had it for a few months, I don't miss it a bit, my pizza is better now that I'm back to hand kneading. (more air in dough, more bubbles once stretched, lighter texture, better rise)

3. 3 15'' pies uses 660 total grams of flour, make 3 at a time. Each ball in the end will be about 350grams. 1 secret to this pie is the smaller ball size, if it's not meant to be a 500 gram ball, F's up fermentation.

Prep: Mix salt in room temp water with a whisk till dissolved. Add half the flour and all yeast, whisk til smooth. Add most of remaining flour, keep small handful for board. Use big metal spoon, then floured hands in bowl to incorporate. Remove to board, hand knead in stretch and fold quarter turns. Knead about 5 mins, then clean said bowl, oil it, put mass in it for 2 hrs covered. 2 hours later its smooth, knead another 2-3 mins, then split to 350 g balls, knead each one and form balls. Oil 3 Tupperware containers, olive oil as well. Oil BALLS themselves, sides and top, not bottom as oiled container covers it. Poke 3-4 pinholes in top of each lid for gas release, place balls in, sleep for 5-7 days.

To answer some q's you had degassing is if it rises up to lid before you want to make it. Usually this will happen if the 2 hr period before sleep was spent in too hot a place. Just take ball out, smack it down gently to degas, put back in. No kneading, you got it right. Also I think its fine at 5 days, better at 7, wickedly hard to handle but fantastic at 9!

Good luck, hope this helps.

UPDATE: Oh, and 1 more thing is when you take them out to rest before cooking leave them in the containers covered for 1-2 hrs, then take out to board, dust with flour, and cover in saran wrap until ready to cook, last 30 mins or so. You'll get no skin in containers, and I think it comes out better than right to board and covered.

On fermentation the 1st 2-3 days the balls will slump in containers, looks like going in wrong direction, be not alarmed as it starts to go up thereafter.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 01:32:05 PM by NY pizzastriver »
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Offline SinoChef

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Re: New York Style - Attempting Glutenboy's Dough
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 02:50:50 PM »

8. Rise on counter covered for 2 hours

June 6th in the Philippines. I would not leave it on the counter top for 2 hours. Put it straight into the fridge. It should not really rise at all.

(I have started freezing my dough hook, mixing bowl, flour, and using iced water. The humidity is really starting to peak here.)

You should be asking yourself..."did i forget to add the yeast" when you go on to ball it. And you should wonder that for the next 2 -3 days. It really does not jump to much.

Day 3, as Pizzastriver says, you should be relieved by what your seeing.

Offline Tatoosh

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Re: New York Style - Attempting Glutenboy's Dough
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 01:35:27 AM »
NYPizzaStriver, I wish I could get the King Arthur's flour but not going to happen since I am in Baguio City, high up the Cordillera mountains of Luzon, Philippines.  My choices of better quality flour are Pillsbury and Gold Medal.  There may be other choices down in Manila, but that is a 6 hour bus ride each way.  There are other flours here, but they are all repackaged, so no idea who the maker is, or even what the flour is, to be honest.  I can get both bread and cake flour, but I have no idea who made them or what their processing was.  The repackaged stuff HAS to be sifted for bugs.  That is just life in the Philippines.  

Do you think this dough is not worth doing if I am limited to either standard Pillsbury or Gold Medal? - For use on a 600F pizza stone.  

SinoChef, the two hours on the counter isn't really a problem where I live.  Baguio City is one of the few places you do not need air conditioning and the upscale houses have fireplaces.  We run in the 70's daytime and 60's night time for most of the year.  Summer will see it get to the 80's in the daytime and winter will see the night drop into the 50's - all temps Fahrenheit.  The humidity is high, running in the mid 80s to mid 90s most of the time.  

I will get a marble slab, though they are not thick, being used for gravestone placcards here.  I'd really like to get a thick one and have one edge rounded and dressed so I can use the turn and drape method I've seen over on Serious Eats website.  But any will be an improvement.  My bro-n-law rolled the last ones out on the wooden peel that came with my KettlePizza setup.  I burnished the peel with flour and the pizza slipped off quite easily.  I need to find a bigger one and a metal peel for removing, then I'll be in business.    
Pizza & BBQ, wood smoke or propane, red sauce, white sauce ... whatever makes them happy!