Neapolitan Pizza and G3 Ferrari (modified) electric oven.

Started by squid, June 25, 2012, 11:00:29 AM

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ovveeennnn

Ferrari G3 Delizia
I removed the lower heater and installed it under the upper one. Previously, the distance between the heater and the stone was 40-45mm. Now the distance is 30-38mm only.
https://ibb.co/RCT3jcv

Since the heating power above is 100% greater and the distance between the heaters and the stone is smaller, would the pizza burn?
I must also say that a grill-motor will be added, so the heating power will be distributed over the entire diameter(surface) of the pizza.
Do you think the distance 30-38mm between the heaters and the stone is enough?

ovveeennnn

What type of sheet metal is in the Ferrari G3? After I have overheated the surface, I cannot clean/polish it to a shine. Is it galvanized inox?

pinakial


mysh

Hi,

I see multiple reports (including here) of G3 ovens tripping the RCD or main circuit breaker. I bought two of them second-hand so I could have some fun modding them and making good pizza. However, both trip the RCD or main fuse when they reach around 400°C on the stone.

I noticed that people in this thread had similar issues, but I couldn't find anyone reporting back how they fixed it. Could it be due to broken heating elements (worn insulation inside them)? I've partially disassembled one of the ovens already, and so far, the wires look fine.

My main home oven uses more watts than an unmodified G3, and I've never had any problems with it. One of the G3s I bought looks almost brand new.

If anyone has had similar problems with G3s or similar models, I'd greatly appreciate your advice.




robca

Quote from: mysh on January 03, 2025, 05:49:36 PMHi,

I see multiple reports (including here) of G3 ovens tripping the RCD or main circuit breaker. I bought two of them second-hand so I could have some fun modding them and making good pizza. However, both trip the RCD or main fuse when they reach around 400°C on the stone.

I noticed that people in this thread had similar issues, but I couldn't find anyone reporting back how they fixed it. Could it be due to broken heating elements (worn insulation inside them)? I've partially disassembled one of the ovens already, and so far, the wires look fine.

My main home oven uses more watts than an unmodified G3, and I've never had any problems with it. One of the G3s I bought looks almost brand new.

If anyone has had similar problems with G3s or similar models, I'd greatly appreciate your advice.




Heating elements don't use more power when hot, so them most likely cause is a short when the temperature increases. Either due to work insulation or thermal expansion, something shorts against the metal and trips the breaker/GFCI.

It would be important to know what trips, though. If the breaker, it's also possible that you have other devices on the same circuit, in total drawing just a bit more than the breaker limit. Say you have 15.5A on a 15A breaker. That breaker will not trip right away. Breakers are designed to allow for short time over-currents.

I suggest using a multimeter (even a cheap Harborfreight one), to measure the actual resistance of the heating elements (from which you can calculate the power), and if there is any resistance between the Live (or Neutral) pins and ground (which is what will make the GFCI trip). Or, if you have a Kill-a-watt, you can see how much power it really uses: a damaged heating element can draw much more current than specs, putting your breaker in the "close to tripping" zone even if the oven specs are lower

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mysh

Thanks a lot @robca, I really appreciate somebody bothered to reply, as probably the prime days of this long thread have ended. I have a decent multimeter, and I am about to use it
the way you suggest. There wasnt really anything drawing too much power from the sockets I believe, only a fridge. My circuit shouldn't really been overloaded. I just noticed that this white ceramic insulation looks a bit separated from the bottom element, maybe that is normal.

robca

Quote from: mysh on January 04, 2025, 05:43:27 PMThanks a lot @robca, I really appreciate somebody bothered to reply, as probably the prime days of this long thread have ended. I have a decent multimeter, and I am about to use it
the way you suggest. There wasnt really anything drawing too much power from the sockets I believe, only a fridge. My circuit shouldn't really been overloaded. I just noticed that this white ceramic isolation looks a bit separated from the bottom element, maybe that is normal.
I don't own a G3, so I can only provide "theoretical" help :) 

A fridge (especially if old) can actually use quite a lot of power when the compressor kicks in (the starting load can easily be 15-20A for a very, very short time, even on a 240V circuit). Startup inrush current is usually not a problem, given that the breaker is slow to react. But on a loaded circuit, the inrush current can be enough to trip the breaker

If I were to troubleshoot your oven, I'd measure the resistance between the live/neutral pins and ground, just to make sure that there are no shorts (when cold, it might short when hot). Then I would put the oven on a dedicated circuit, with nothing else on that same breaker, and see if it happens. If you used your oven on the same circuit, you might either have an extra load (fridge compressor) or a wonky breaker that trips too easily. So, before taking apart the oven, I'd eliminate every other variable. If the problem happens only with a hot oven when on a standalone circuit, you then know it's a problem with the heating element (and can easily replace it)

Also, would be good if you could determine if the breaker or the GFCI/RBC trips. The former trips only when there is excessive current drawn, the latter only when there is a path between the live and ground wires (even a tiny current: a resistance of a megaohm would be enough usually to trigger it). Unless you have a combined RBCO breaker (uncommon in the USA, common in Europe)

mysh

I followed your suggestion and checked everything with a multimeter :) . The resistance of the heating elements is around 22.5 ohms, which I believe aligns with their specifications (600W, 110V). I also checked for continuity between the neutral and the ground, no issues here it seems. The breaker trips only when the oven gets hot (around 400 C on the stone). There is no melted terminals or cables inside. I use 1800W kettle (all the time) and 2000W heatgun on the same socket, no issues. I'd say it must be either wonky breakers as you suggest, or both ovens (I bought two second hand g3 ovens, for modding etc) have broken heating elements. Few days ago, before I had the g3 ovens, I was thinking about turning a large 2000W sandwich/ panini maker into some kind of pizza oven (I have ceramic mats and cable sleeves rated for 1200 C, pizza stone etc) . Once I removed the thermostat from it, in less than a minute it started tripping the Rcd or Gfci (can't remember which one). So maybe the breakers are the problem. Thanks again @robca your conclussions are truly usefull for me. I will still check the g3 in another room, once I put it back together.  I'm only working on one of them atm

mysh

I'm still worried about ceramic insulators as they went even worse after aligning both heating elements in the upper dome. I ordered some high temperature ceramic putty rated for 1200C /2200F, will use that as an insulator. There is a forum where people repaired their coffee machines with this method. I've seen some pictures, probably even on this thread, where ceramic insulators are separated from the elements- it can happen quite easy I belive, but didn't see nobody commenting on that. This probably may lead to shorts.

robca

Probably you know it already, but the cheap, commonly available ceramic fiber insulation materials are really dangerous (silicosis). There are safe ceramic fibers (calcium-magnesium silicates) that are biosoluble and even if inhaled don't cause lasting damage.

Make sure to properly protect yourself (N95 minimum, ideally full suit tyvek) when working with ceramic fiber, and ensure that once enclosed there's no way for the fiber to leak into the environment (like inside some ovens with a cooling fan)

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mysh

Quote from: robca on January 09, 2025, 05:28:02 PMProbably you know it already, but the cheap, commonly available ceramic fiber insulation materials are really dangerous (silicosis). There are safe ceramic fibers (calcium-magnesium silicates) that are biosoluble and even if inhaled don't cause lasting damage.

Make sure to properly protect yourself (N95 minimum, ideally full suit tyvek) when working with ceramic fiber, and ensure that once enclosed there's no way for the fiber to leak into the environment (like inside some ovens with a cooling fan)
I've read a little bit about that, and came to conclusion that there isn't really enough evidence about ceramic insulations being harmfull to humans (without overexposion). I'm only saying that my research probably wasn't good enough and I'm not really using it very carefully.  I'll search for more studies and from now will take extra caution. Thanks for the heads up. It is not worth it to put myself and my family at risk.

mysh

On the other hand  people here are using thin aluminium as reflactors around heating elements, and from what I've read that can be poisonus above 400c.

mysh

The mod is done, and I have to say I love it. This ancient thread is the best place on the internet if you want to mod those little ovens. It is a dangerous diy project, you have to do everything you can to prevent electric shocks and fire. I'm quite satisfied with my work, but there are a few things I could do better.
Before I had pretty decent results with my home oven- pizza in about 2.5 minutes on a thick 8mm steal. Now it is time to learn how use modded g3. First results aren't perfect, but tasty. I bake sourdough bread since covid, so sourdough for everything, including pizza. Here are some pics of a pizza I made with 3  days dough. Far from perfect, I'll keep learning as making pizzas is a cool hobby

Wario

Looks pretty good, way better than what i've gotten out of mine before i bought an F1 oven.

TXCraig1

Quote from: mysh on January 15, 2025, 07:16:58 AMI bake sourdough bread since covid, so sourdough for everything, including pizza. Here are some pics of a pizza I made with 3  days dough. 

Cold fermentation works great for sourdough bread but not so well for pizza. 
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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mysh

Quote from: TXCraig1 on January 16, 2025, 06:51:44 AMCold fermentation works great for sourdough bread but not so well for pizza.
I treat it similar to a bread dough, first it proofs in a large bowl, once shaped I'll let it raise a bit, then it goes to the fridge. I don't know what you mean exactly, but this works pretty good for me, no problems with the oven spring, the taste is also good. It might work differently that with yeast, I've never really used yeast. I'm also nowhere near a pro level, pizza is a new passion for me.
I'm adding some pictures of my sourdough bread :)

TXCraig1

Quote from: mysh on January 18, 2025, 04:29:57 AMI treat it similar to a bread dough, first it proofs in a large bowl, once shaped I'll let it raise a bit, then it goes to the fridge. I don't know what you mean exactly, but this works pretty good for me, no problems with the oven spring, the taste is also good. It might work differently that with yeast, I've never really used yeast. I'm also nowhere near a pro level, pizza is a new passion for me.
I'm adding some pictures of my sourdough bread :)

I'm not saying that CF doesn't work at all for SD for pizza - rather that it doesn't work anywhere near as well as room temp (ideally in the low-mid 60s). Pizza is not bread, and the hotter/faster the bake, the farther it is from bread. just because something works well for bread doesn't mean it will work as well for pizza, and this is a great example of just that. Cold fermenting SD pizza dough tends to negatively affect aroma, taste, and texture as compared to room temp, and this is particularly true of pizza cooked at Neapolitan temps.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

mysh

There is nothing strong about the taste as long as it is not badly overfermented (same with yeast).  At least nothing I could notice. But is yeast based dough more tasty for pizza or will it have better texture? This I don't know and I think after all you have convinced me to stop being such a sourdough purist and go with yeast next time I'll be making pizza. I don't often go to a real good pizzeria  (so I could compare) and it was some time ago I bought a pizza that tasted really amazing. I know some very decent pizza places around but nothing that would blow your mind.

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