Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr

[Mjs16]

What water temperature and mixing method is everyone using?

[PapaJawnz]

I've had enough. I want what I want and I'm not compromising. I want the decadence of a saucy/juicy/entirely orange layer of cheese & sauce sitting on top of a solidly structured crust that is robust with softness and chew yet with no crisp. 

An amazingly-wonderful mistake I made last night is what's inspiring me.

I've been unhappy with my crust, wanting to go thicker, but not trusting it. A bake my kids did using a 'kit' from a local pizzeria led me to buy one of their dough balls to bake with my sauce and cheese. They use a whopping 448 grams for a 12" pizza and I intended to cut it down to my usual 371 grams for a 14" pizza. But I botched the cut and ended up with only 314 grams. I then intended to make a somewhat smaller pie to offset my lower dough weight, but ended up with a full 14". That's a TF of somewhere around 0.072.

And the result was amazing. Entire 8 minute bake was on the screen. I could see from sauce/cheese rumble that it didnt need the stone. I could see the melt of the uncut pie was gorgeous. And each slice ate with the decadence that I've often noted when I get a thin spot in one of my thicker pies.

But, the undercrust was almost non existent and I'm not satisfied with that. My challenge is now to get a legitimate undercrust but still maintain this melt. I often mention (as recently as a few days ago to GumbaWill) that crust thinness has a big impact on melt. So, can I really adjust to get the melt without the bottom heat coming through a super thin skin?

Evidence of my prior bakes suggests I can, but those bakes have been very rare. I had a bake in March of 2019 that was a glorious juicy mess on top, yet was structurally sound with a TF of 0.09375. (I'm glad I saved my old notebooks for a reason.)
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg571105#msg571105
One a couple months earlier had TF of 0.09125 and I commented "cheese boil across the entire pie" and "cheese looked perfect".
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg559455#msg559455

How do I hope to achieve this:
1. First I'll go back to my 371 gram dough ball (TF = 0.085) and see if I can achieve it there before pushing any more dough weight.
2. Ferment the dough more. In the 2nd post I linked above I guessed that a more fermented dough seems to allow more heat through it to increase the sauce boil. I have no idea why that would be true, but who knows.
3. Will need incrementally more sauce as I go up in dough weight
4. Will use the same temp as last night (oven temp of 520, stone temp reached 530)
5. Will go higher in the oven by 1 or 2 racks. This will get me closer to the top element, perhaps getting the sauce boil from above
6. If I dont see a strong boil I'll move to the stone
7. Perhaps not related, but I want to try increasing my dough salt level to 2.5% (from 2.2%), inspried by the pizzeria crust
8. Also unrelated, but after tasting the super spicyness of the pizzeria's sauce raw, I doubled the amount of cayenne in my sauce. do that again.

Wish me luck. Worst case I dial back to TF of 0.07, but I'm hopeful I can make this work.

****
Recap of last night's bake:

- 314 grams of dough from a pizzeria, 14" pie, TF of 0.072
- Rim crust tasted salty early on
- Oven set to 520, stone reached 530
- About 1 spoon less than 3/4 cup of sauce used
- A little less than 9 oz mozz used (photo on my computer with how much cheese i left over, maybe half an ounce)
- 8 minute bake, all on the mesh screen
- 3rd to bottom oven rack

Pics below from last night.

I don't know if I can achieve anything like this in my 450F toaster oven but I would like to try.  To me this looks like the ideal slice.  I don't mind the grease one bit.  You can always tilt the slice up or down depending on your nature and drain it off.  Worst case scenario you can blot it though I would consider that a major offense!

I would love to see how your juicy slices have evolved over the years 

*stained shirt crew representing*

[hammettjr]

indeed, would love to hear how you're doing matt!

All good QD!

Not sure if I'm back or not, but had some fun last night 

[kori]

Hey Matt, nice to see you posting, hopefully you're back.

[Decoy205]

Nice to see some posts!!

[hammettjr]

I'm close to being back to weekly bakes. Been mixing it up with Greek, Grandma, and a Papa John's bake.

This one was a 16" NY, half red/half white for me and my wife. It's been interesting using grocery store ingredients. I think I've determined that while I like Mutti Crushed tomato, the flavor doesn't work for my NY style. I think it's lack of acidity.

[Decoy205]

I'm close to being back to weekly bakes. Been mixing it up with Greek, Grandma, and a Papa John's bake.

This one was a 16" NY, half red/half white for me and my wife. It's been interesting using grocery store ingredients. I think I've determined that while I like Mutti Crushed tomato, the flavor doesn't work for my NY style. I think it's lack of acidity.

Nice half and half Matt!


I agree about mutti.  They don't have the right flavor profile imo.  For store bought I either use Cento or Red pack.  Red pack has been the closest to the Stanislaus flavor thah I found so far. 

A lot of people like Jersey fresh or the sclafani but I wasn't crazy about the flavor of those either.

[gcpizza]

I agree about mutti.  They don't have the right flavor profile imo.  For store bought I either use Cento or Red pack.  Red pack has been the closest to the Stanislaus flavor thah I found so far. 

Another Redpack product, Tuttorosso, makes a pretty good sauce as well.

[kori]

I didn't care for Mutti crushed either, I much prefer Stanislaus.

[hammettjr]

Thanks guys. Good to know I'm not the only one struggling with Mutti for NY. Worked well on a grandma and on a Greek with some paste added though. 

I've never tried Red Pack, but do have a can of Tuttorosso sitting in the cabinet for some reason.

I found 1 serving of my old usual Alta Cucina (Stanislaus) in the freezer. Will probably go with that next bake then go from there.

[hammettjr]

18". Despite overcooking the pie, it was probably my best NY crust.

TF=0.09, significantly fermented, 550 degrees for 8:45, basically Joe's formula plus 2% butter.

My old usual Alta Cucina sauce was good. The Galbani WM mozzarella browned too much (but I messed up the timing).

Next time:
Same dough
Don't overcook, either reduce bake time by a minute or pre-heat at 550 then turn it down at launch.
Check if I have any Grande in the freezer

[Decoy205]

18". Despite overcooking the pie, it was probably my best NY crust.

TF=0.09, significantly fermented, 550 degrees for 8:45, basically Joe's formula plus 2% butter.

My old usual Alta Cucina sauce was good. The Galbani WM mozzarella browned too much (but I messed up the timing).

Next time:
Same dough
Don't overcook, either reduce bake time by a minute or pre-heat at 550 then turn it down at launch.
Check if I have any Grande in the freezer

Looks good to me . I don't mind a little browning on the mozz.  Galbani has a tendency to do that easier. 

[hammettjr]

Looks good to me . I don't mind a little browning on the mozz.  Galbani has a tendency to do that easier.

Thanks! Was still an enjoyable pizza, not ruined. I like cheese browning on my Greek pan pizzas, but prefer much less on NY pies.

[hammettjr]

Making progress, finally starting to get close to a properly fermented dough. Still need to get Grande. Been making a variety of styles lately, but may have to make more of these NYers.

[Decoy205]

Looks great Matt! 

[hammettjr]

And now I'm back in business!

[Decoy205]

And now I'm back in business!

Nice!  Where did you get the Grande from?  I need to reup myself. 

[hammettjr]

Nice!  Where did you get the Grande from?  I need to reup myself.

Sansone Market! - i highly recommend them to folks in the NYC area.

They are a pizzeria/restaurant supplier for NYC/Long Island. In the old days they would sell to us directly from inside their warehouse, but a few years ago they turned one of their storage buildings a block away into a proper retail store.

[Decoy205]

Sansone Market! - i highly recommend them to folks in the NYC area.

They are a pizzeria/restaurant supplier for NYC/Long Island. In the old days they would sell to us directly from inside their warehouse, but a few years ago they turned one of their storage buildings a block away into a proper retail store.

Ah! I didn't know they had the retail store! Nice.  If I'm ever out that way good to know the option.  Thanks Matt!

[hammettjr]

Getting dialed in.

18" with TF of 0.0875 (631 grams).
1 cup sauce, heavy romano on top of it.
About 12 oz grande whole milk.
8 minutes at 550.
Post bake microplaned parm.