Wondra Flour for Pizza Crust Recipe?

Started by Mako13, May 13, 2019, 02:30:53 AM

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Mako13

Does anyone have a Wondra Flour recipe for their pizza crust?

One of the local pizza places here uses it for their crust, and it is superb.  It make a nice, crispy outer shell, like on a good French baguette, but with an airy, chewy center.  It's delicious.

They mix it, and let it rise for 2 - 4 hours at room temp (the longer period is in the Winter, when it is cooler), and then put it in the walk-in overnight.  It's ready by lunchtime, the next day.

Pizzas are cooked at 500 degrees for about 12 minutes for a pepperoni pizza.  Perhaps another minute or two if there are lots of toppings, or veggies on it.  This is for a NY-style, hand-tossed crust, with a thicker rim.

Looks like it is a fairly sticky dough, with a high moisture content.  They use bench flour liberally when rolling it out. 

Two dough balls are pressed together to make a large pie crust.

So, anyone have any idea how much water, yeast, and flour to use with the Wondra flour for a crust like this?

Are there any good sources for 5 - 10 lb. bags at a discount, since the small, 13.5 oz. container tube I've found in the local grocery store is very expensive?

PizzAmateur

#1
Quote from: Mako13 on May 13, 2019, 02:30:53 AM
Does anyone have a Wondra Flour recipe for their pizza crust?

One of the local pizza places here uses it for their crust, and it is superb.  It make a nice, crispy outer shell, like on a good French baguette, but with an airy, chewy center.  It's delicious.

They mix it, and let it rise for 2 - 4 hours at room temp (the longer period is in the Winter, when it is cooler), and then put it in the walk-in overnight.  It's ready by lunchtime, the next day.

Pizzas are cooked at 500 degrees for about 12 minutes for a pepperoni pizza.  Perhaps another minute or two if there are lots of toppings, or veggies on it.  This is for a NY-style, hand-tossed crust, with a thicker rim.

Looks like it is a fairly sticky dough, with a high moisture content.  They use bench flour liberally when rolling it out. 

Two dough balls are pressed together to make a large pie crust.

So, anyone have any idea how much water, yeast, and flour to use with the Wondra flour for a crust like this?

Are there any good sources for 5 - 10 lb. bags at a discount, since the small, 13.5 oz. container tube I've found in the local grocery store is very expensive?

I am not familiar with Wondra Flour, but I did look it up after reading your post.

https://www.goldmedalflour.com/our-flour/wondra-quick-mixing-all-purpose-flour/

I can only guess that it is finely ground, similar to 00, but I am not sure why they would not say so directly if that was truly the case.

The protein level looks to be similar to a lot of AP flour in the USA.

There may be something I am missing in the ingredients, but all I see describing the properties of Wondra on THEIR site is:

This flour is the unsung hero of the kitchen. It dissolves more quickly than all purpose flour, which saves you time. And it mixes very easily, which makes for smooth, lump-free sauces and creamy gravies every time.

and

This is the flour you'll want for extra- creamy, lump-free gravies and ultra- flaky and crispy pie crusts. Its lightness also makes it perfect as the dredging flour for fish and poultry.



The Dough Doctor

Wondra Flour has a protein content averaging about 10.5% and is available both malted or un-malted so you will need to read the label to see if it is malted or not if that's important to you. As for formulation, any decent dough formulation should work OK but owing to the low protein content keep the finished dough temperature between 75 and 80F while keeping the total dough fermentation on the short side. I would expect that the total dough absorption would be in the 56 to 58% range.
Wondra Flour is designed to hydrate quickly so it may look different in the bowl at first.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

QwertyJuan

Quote from: The Dough Doctor on May 13, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Wondra Flour has a protein content averaging about 10.5% and is available both malted or un-malted so you will need to read the label to see if it is malted or not if that's important to you. As for formulation, any decent dough formulation should work OK but owing to the low protein content keep the finished dough temperature between 75 and 80F while keeping the total dough fermentation on the short side. I would expect that the total dough absorption would be in the 56 to 58% range.
Wondra Flour is designed to hydrate quickly so it may look different in the bowl at first.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom... you never cease to amaze me with your crazy amounts of knowledge!!  :)

PizzAmateur

I was wondering what makes this flour different and I think I found the reason.

https://bakingbites.com/2008/05/what-is-wondra-flour/

QuoteInstant flour is low protein, finely ground flour that has been treated so that it will dissolve instantly in water and not require the same long cooking process as non-instant flour to dissolve in a liquid and thicken it. The process is called pregelatinization, and it involve heat a starch (flour) with very hot water and/or steam, then drying it out, so that it has essentially been cooked already. Because of this, instant flour also very unlikely to form lumps when mixed with a water or other solution. Wondra also has some malted barley flour mixed into it, which acts as a dough conditioner in many breads.

So, it would seem that the pre-cooking is what really makes this flour different.  Not sure I would pay the price for it for pizza though.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T



The Dough Doctor

I think it's a combination of two things, the Wondra Flour is milled very fine and it is "instantized", they do this by a process of wetting the flour and then drying it again, this procedure allows the flour to hydrate more quickly.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

PizzAmateur

#6
Quote from: The Dough Doctor on May 14, 2019, 01:22:58 AM
I think it's a combination of two things, the Wondra Flour is milled very fine and it is "instantized", they do this by a process of wetting the flour and then drying it again, this procedure allows the flour to hydrate more quickly.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

I stand corrected... or at least the article I quoted stands corrected. ;) ;D

Oops... I think you and the article agree!

I guess it was just my terminology that was incorrect.

PizzAmateur

Tom,

Would you recommend this flour for pizza?

Whether yes or no, why?

Thanks!

The Dough Doctor

We did look at it at one time but since it is really not intended for pizza application we did not pursue any further evaluation. Our impression of the flour was that it was designed to be more of a "chef's" flour, for general use in the kitchen but not specifically as a baking flour. There were just too many other flour options that worked just as well and at a lower cost too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

PizzAmateur

#9
Quote from: The Dough Doctor on May 14, 2019, 11:08:47 AM
We did look at it at one time but since it is really not intended for pizza application we did not pursue any further evaluation. Our impression of the flour was that it was designed to be more of a "chef's" flour, for general use in the kitchen but not specifically as a baking flour. There were just too many other flour options that worked just as well and at a lower cost too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Thanks Tom.  Pretty much my assumption from the begining for the most part.

Thanks again!

A D V E R T I S E M E N T



Mako13

Thanks for the replies and info.

I'll have to check to see if it is malted or not.

I will say that it/they make the best pizza and crust that I've ever had, all in a 500 degree oven, cooked for about 12 - 14 minutes, depending upon toppings.  12 minutes for a pepperoni, and 14 or so for an everything pizza with veggies and meat on it.

The crust is crunchy and firm on the outside, but soft on the inside, like a good quality baguette, or loaf of French bread should be.

Unlike with many pizzas, the crust is delicious all by itself.

PizzAmateur

Quote from: Mako13 on June 19, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
Thanks for the replies and info.

I'll have to check to see if it is malted or not.

I will say that it/they make the best pizza and crust that I've ever had, all in a 500 degree oven, cooked for about 12 - 14 minutes, depending upon toppings.  12 minutes for a pepperoni, and 14 or so for an everything pizza with veggies and meat on it.

The crust is crunchy and firm on the outside, but soft on the inside, like a good quality baguette, or loaf of French bread should be.

Unlike with many pizzas, the crust is delicious all by itself.


All I can say is, if it works for you and you are satisfied with the results, then more power to you!


Although I have been warned against using White Lily Bread Flour, that is what I am currently using and it works wonderfully for *my* pizzas!


To each their own! (grin)

QwertyJuan

Quote from: Mako13 on June 19, 2019, 01:17:57 AM
Thanks for the replies and info.

I'll have to check to see if it is malted or not.

I will say that it/they make the best pizza and crust that I've ever had, all in a 500 degree oven, cooked for about 12 - 14 minutes, depending upon toppings.  12 minutes for a pepperoni, and 14 or so for an everything pizza with veggies and meat on it.

The crust is crunchy and firm on the outside, but soft on the inside, like a good quality baguette, or loaf of French bread should be.

Unlike with many pizzas, the crust is delicious all by itself.

Is this pizza baked in a deck oven or a conveyor?? Deep-dish or pan?? Really wondering why it's taking 12-14 minutes at 500 degrees to cook.

The Dough Doctor

When we had an electric deck oven and it was failing it took close to 15-minutes to bake our thin crust pizzas. We replaced it with a Marsal gas deck oven and our baking times went down be approximately 50%. Additionally, there are a good number of deck ovens in use for making pizzas that are not actually designed for making pizza, they were designed to bake bread so they will always have a steel deck and a burner BTU capacity of  around 85,000 BTU. Not exactly the oven you would want to have for a high volume shop.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

PizzAmateur

Quote from: The Dough Doctor on June 21, 2019, 12:18:59 AM
When we had an electric deck oven and it was failing it took close to 15-minutes to bake our thin crust pizzas. We replaced it with a Marsal gas deck oven and our baking times went down be approximately 50%. Additionally, there are a good number of deck ovens in use for making pizzas that are not actually designed for making pizza, they were designed to bake bread so they will always have a steel deck and a burner BTU capacity of  around 85,000 BTU. Not exactly the oven you would want to have for a high volume shop.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


What was the temp when it was "failing"?

A D V E R T I S E M E N T



The Dough Doctor

It would get up to full operating temperature, eventually. With the elements not generating full heat potential the oven would cool when opening the door, like you never need to to that when using a deck oven! Multiple bakes were impossible unless we waited about 15-minutes before loading the oven again as the deck was sooo ssslllooowww to recover.
What a breath of fresh air when we got the Marsal gas oven!  :chef:
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

wiz_d_kidd

I recently saw an episode of America's Test Kitchen in which they used Tangzhong or Yudane in their preparation of bread dough. I tried it in my Chicago thin crust (tavern style) pizza and got lackluster results. It appeared to produce a lighter, crispier crust, but the difference compared to a normal crust was minimal and not worth the extra effort. Also, using the ATK recipe for Tangzhong required 100% of the water in just 15% of the flour to make the Tangzhong paste. Then I had to incorporate the remaining 85% flour into that paste. It was rather clumsy to do, but I did it.

Then I decided to try Wondra flour. As far as I can tell, Wondra is a pre-gelatinized flour in which flour has been cooked with water, then dried, so it seems like it's just a dried version of Tangzhong or Yudane.

I replaced about 15-20% of my original flour content with Wondra, and it provided great results! The bottom crust is tender  crisp, and the crumb is light and airy, with a nice chew. Wondra is a tad expensive, but so easy to use that I'm not going back.


A D V E R T I S E M E N T