Pete-zza Does DKM Cracker Style

[Kman]

Hi Pete,

To update you, my NY style finally worked as I switched to an Italian bread flour with the brand name "Marrone"

Meanwhile any thoughts on my cracker style recipe??

[Pete-zza]

Meanwhile any thoughts on my cracker style recipe??

Kman,

I think you did well with your pizzas. But what threw me off was the use of semolina. I have never used or associated semolina with a cracker style dough. But when I have used semolina in other types of pizzas, my practice was to increase the hydration a bit. This can be a bit tricky because semolina can come in different forms and particle size. In your case, you could perhaps omit the semolina from your recipe or use a bit more oil to soften the dough and make it easier to roll out. You might also want to use a rolling pin. To get a good feel for how to handle semolina in a dough, you might want to take a look at this post:

Reply 7 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=67734.msg657642;topicseen#msg657642

Peter

[Pie Charles]

Following up on my earlier post, at Reply 4, I made two more cracker style pizzas as part of the series of pizzas under this thread. I will describe the first one in this post and the second one in the next post.

For the first pizza, I used a modification of the DKM cracker style dough recipe as previously described. The first change was that I used a very small thickness factor so that I could test the lower limits of the range of workable crust thickness. As will be seen in the dough formulation below, that thickness factor was just under 0.06 (I simply used the thickness factor from the last pizza for convenience). That was for an amount of dough to make a 13" dough skin from which I would cut out a 12" skin, the desired size of the final pizza. Doing this has the effect of lowering the thickness factor from its nominal value (just under 0.06) to a smaller value, of just under 0.05, since about one inch of the 13" skin ends up as scrap.   

In addition to the thickness factor change, I increased the amount of salt to 1.75%. I also converted the active dry yeast (ADY) used in the DKM recipe to instant dry yeast (IDY), mainly for convenience and since many members use IDY instead of ADY. Other changes, mainly to the preparation and processing of the dough, will become apparent below. The dough formulation I ended up with was as follows:

Flour (100%): Water (36%): IDY (0.97%): Salt (1.75%): Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3.5%): Sugar (1.2%): Total (143.42%):

153.67 g  |  5.42 oz | 0.34 lbs 55.32 g  |  1.95 oz | 0.12 lbs 1.49 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.49 tsp | 0.16 tbsp 2.69 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.48 tsp | 0.16 tbsp 5.38 g | 0.19 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.18 tsp | 0.39 tbsp 1.84 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp 220.4 g | 7.77 oz | 0.49 lbs | TF = 0.05857

Note: The pizza size entered into the tool is 13"; the desired size of the final pizza is 12"; no bowl residue compensation is used.

I used Peter's recipe above (same size pan and %'s) but the crust didnt turn out great. I'm a little confused. If anyone has suggestions I'd appreciate it. Here are some details.

Dough at RT fermentation for 24 hours.

baked at 475 convection oven on bottom rack. Used a Lloyd's cutter pan 12".

pre-bake for 5 min's.

added toppings. baked for 8 min's. On lowest rack on baking steel.

Used about 7 oz of WM mozz which was prob a little too much. will reduce next time.

The crust was under done and tasted like it had no life.

Thinking I need to up the hydration quite a bit. There was no crisp to it and it tasted bland and doughy.

This is my first attempt at Cracker Crust so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Pete-zza]

Pie Charles,

If I were to venture a guess, I would say that I think the problem you experienced was related to how you baked the pizza temperature-wise. In my case, I used a regular electric oven that was not a convection oven, and I did not use a baking steel. Can you tell me the temperature of the steel? Also, is your cutter pan perforated or non-perforated?

Also, can you tell me what brand of flour you used and if you used a food processor to help make the dough? I don't think these aspects are behind your experience but maybe they offer some clues, given that you feel that hydration was an issue.

Peter

[Pie Charles]

Thanks Peter...here is some more information...

I didn't take the temperature of the baking steel, but it was pre-heated for an hour at 475F on convection bake.

I used a non-perforated lloyd's cutter pan.

The flour is Central Market Organic Bread Flour 12.7% protein, link: https://www.centralmarket.com/product/central-market-unbleached-bread-flour-5-lb/6480021

I did not use a food processor for this dough. I mixed by hand.

[Pete-zza]

Pie Charles,

In case you did not notice, I actually made the cracker style dough by hand. See, for example:

Reply 61 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg49722#msg49722, and

Reply 126 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg53174#msg53174

Even if you are able to improve your dough using hand kneading, I think you may have to experiment with ways to use your convection oven and baking steel to get better end results. However, starting with a good hand kneaded dough is a good place to start. You might also scan posts in this thread by others who made cracker style doughs but using pizza stones and the like.

Peter

[Chicago Bob]

Pie Charles,

If I were to venture a guess, I would say that I think the problem you experienced was related to how you baked the pizza temperature-wise. In my case, I used a regular electric oven that was not a convection oven, and I did not use a pizza steel. Can you tell me the temperature of the steel? Also, is your cutter pan perforated or non-perforated?

Also, can you tell me what brand of flour you used and if you used a food processor to help make the dough? I don't think these aspects are behind your experience but maybe they offer some clues, given that you feel that hydration was an issue.

Peter

                 I think the cutter pan did him in.... Especially at only 475 degrees and just a short 5 minute Preheat on that pan.... It's a shame too because that sure is one mighty fine looking pepperoni thin crust pizza!   

[Pie Charles]

Pie Charles,

In case you did not notice, I actually made the cracker style dough by hand. See, for example:

Reply 61 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg49722#msg49722, and

Reply 126 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.msg53174#msg53174

Even if you are able to improve your dough using hand kneading, I think you may have to experiment with ways to use your convection oven and baking steel to get better end results. However, starting with a good hand kneaded dough is a good place to start. You might also scan posts in this thread by others who made cracker style doughs but using pizza stones and the like.

Peter

Thanks Peter. I'll review and keep trying. Appreciate your help.

[Pie Charles]

                 I think the cutter pan did him in.... Especially at only 475 degrees and just a short 5 minute Preheat on that pan.... It's a shame too because that sure is one mighty fine looking pepperoni thin crust pizza!   

As in, you're thinking I should have not used a cutter pan at all? or should have used a perforated one? Thanks

[bobgraff]

I'd guess that you either need to forgo the pan, or increase the oven temperature.

I personally favor par-baking on parchment paper on a stone/steel (@475), then finishing the baking on a screen to limit additional browning of the crust.

I also recall that nick57 preferred to par-bake on a cutter pan (at 550), then finish the bake directly on the over rack.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18731.msg544692#msg544692

[Chicago Bob]

I'd guess that you either need to forgo the pan, or increase the oven temperature.

I personally favor par-baking on parchment paper on a stone/steel (@475), then finishing the baking on a screen to limit additional browning of the crust.

I also recall that nick57 preferred to par-bake on a cutter pan (at 550), then finish the bake directly on the over rack.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=18731.msg544692#msg544692

yes I also do what nick57 does.... Pop and flatten out the air bubbles.   

[Pie Charles]

Here's another attempt. This one much better. Thanks to those that commented with suggestions.

I used Nick's method of a par-bake of about 3 mins and I did a CF for 48 hours. I also ditched the cutter pan and baked directly on the baking steel. I'll make more of these for sure. Thanks again!

Pics arent showing directly in the post but you can see if you click on the links below...