Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina

[BTB]

I mentioned in the Malnati thread that I recently had an excellent deep dish pizza at a local pizzeria that used semolina flour to some extent in their crust, which was very tasty and flavorful along with a nice light crunch.  So I went about making a small 9" deep dish pizza this past weekend to see how it would turn out using some semolina in the flour mixture.  Peter had indicated that Tom Lehmann recommended a general maximum of 25% semolina of the total flour blend, but that some others had gone as high as 50%. I just settled on 15% in this initial experiment.

Using King Arthur AP and Bob's Red Mill semolina, the formulation that I used, with a 1.5% bowl residue, was as follows:

Flour ***  (100%):  161.71 g  |  5.7 oz | 0.36 lbs
Water (47%):  89.42 g  |  3.15 oz | 0.2 lbs
ADY (.6%):  1.14 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.3 tsp | 0.1 tbsp
Salt (.5%):  0.95 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%):  9.51 g | 0.34 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.11 tsp | 0.7 tbsp
Corn Oil (18%):  34.24 g | 1.21 oz | 0.08 lbs | 7.61 tsp | 2.54 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  1.9 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.4 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Semolina (15%):  28.54 g | 1.01 oz | 0.06 lbs | 8.2 tsp | 2.73 tbsp
Total (187.1%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875

    ***Using the deep-dish dough calculation tool, the flour (in this case KAAP) came out to
             "Flour (100%):  190.25 g  |  6.71 oz | 0.42 lbs," but per Peter's suggestion, you need to deduct
             the amount of semolina to ensure a proper balance of flour in total.

I mixed the semolina and salt with the KAAP, but withheld 1/4 cup of the KAAP.  I added the water with the previously proofed ADY, mixed with a wooden spoon and by hand, covered and let rest for around 25 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen.  Then I added the rest of the flour along with the oil and the small amount of melted and cooled butter.  After kneading for a very short time (est. 1 min.), I found I needed a teaspoon or two more of KAAP, and then put the formed dough ball into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for 24 hours.

I took the cooled dough ball out the next day about 1 and 1/2 hours before baking to let it warm up.  I've found at other times that cold dough did not bake very well, or at least not to my liking, so I think it's important to let the dough get to room temperature before baking.  I put the dough ball into my previously oiled 9" deep dish Chicago Metallic pan with 2" high straight-sides.  Patting it out flat by hand, I tried especially to crimp or pinch the edges of the crust very hard to give the crust a nice real thin edge, as opposed to a thicker or fatter rim that sometimes occurs, especially when using a lot of yeast.  The Malnati's, Due's and Pizano's pizzas that I used to enjoy always had that crimped thin, crisp rim around the pizza unlike the thicker rim that existed at Gino's East, Uno's franchises, and other places.

I then put in a layer of sliced Mozzarella cheese, then added some provolone cheese pieces, then a sausage "patty" that I made from a couple of links of specialty Italian sausage.  See Pics below.

[BTB]

Next I added some drained 6 in 1 sauce to which I added Penzeys pizza spices, minced garlic, white pepper, sea salt, ginger, a good dash of honey (key ingredient) and a few pieces of small diced plum tomatoes.  I usually don't like a chunky pizza sauce at all, but strangely have come to love it in Chicago Style pizzas.  I then put on a healthy amount of grated parmesan cheese from my specialty Italian deli.  On top of that, I also added several pieces of sausage that I had left over from the links.  I baked the pizza on my pizza stone on the bottom oven rack, which I previously heated up for an hour at 475 degrees F.  I reduced the heat to around 450, turned the pizza 180 degrees after 15 minutes, put the oven's convection (fan) feature on for the last 10 minutes, and then took the pizza out after cooking for around 22 minutes.  I was going to cook it for 25 minutes, but the little pieces of sausage on top were starting to burn a bit.  See Pics below.

[BTB]

This pizza turned out absolutely great.  The use of semolina added greatly to the flavor and taste of crust that I've never been able to achieve in homemade pizzas.  The crust had a tender, flaky character to it that I really liked.  I won't hesitate to try this recipe again, maybe seeing what more or less semolina would do, although this proportion is going to be hard to beat as it is. 

[BTB]

The last piece didn't go to waste.  My wife and I devoured it shortly after shooting the picture.  My previous experiments using corn meal as part of the flour mixture were very unsatisfactory, but the semolina ingredient is very different.  I highly recommend this Chicago Style deep dish pizza using semolina as part of the crust's flour mixture. 

[Pete-zza]

BTB,

You did great, both as to the pizza and your explanation.

I have one small question. You stated that "it's important to let the dough get to room temperature before baking". Do you mean to say that the dough should be left at room temperature for a period of time before baking? For example, if your room temperature was 85 degrees F, would you let the dough warm up to 85 degrees F?

Peter

[BTB]

Guess I really never thought of what room temperature was.  Down here in Florida, it's around 82 degrees outside right now, but with our air conditioning, it's around 73 to 75 degrees inside.  I would think the dough in the high 60s or in the 70s is best.  But a "cold" dough (30s to 50s) just didn't seem to bake up right for me.  I would be hesitant at 85 degrees, but I'm not too sure why.  One thing I would do different next time, I would bake the pizza I described above a little longer to ensure the center crisped up a little more.  The browned pieces of sausage on top threw my timing off.  I would stay at 25 to 27 minutes baking time the next time around.  But most of the pizza had a nice crisp/crunch texture to it that I really liked.

[Pete-zza]

BTB,

Tom Lehmann frequently corrects people when they say to let their doughs warm up to room temperature. Some professional pizza kitchen areas can get to over 85-95 degrees F or even higher in some parts of the country and at certain times of year, or just because of excessive heat from their ovens. If a dough is allowed to warm up to that temperature, it might blow (overfement) or become overly gassy. Technically, the desired temperature before using a dough is around 55 degrees F. Below that, one runs the risk of getting large bubbles in the finished crust. In my experience, 55 degrees F is too low. I usually shoot for a dough temperature in the mid-60s. I only mention the point because some readers will take instructions to let a dough warm up to room temperature literally. Fortunately, most home kitchens tend to be above 60 degrees F most of the time, so there is usually little need to worry about the dough temperature being too low.

Peter

[zalicious]

BTB, I'm so glad you posted this. Chicago Deep Dish is what I want to try next. Your pizza looks great. I love semolina in my pizza crusts, & I noticed an improvement ( to my tastes ) in taste & texture after I started using it. Was curious what you didn't like about the cornmeal in your previous attempt, since that is a standard ingredient in Chicago Deep Dish?

[BTB]

Give it a try, Zalicious, I think you'll really like the Chicago deep dish pizza in all it's varieties.  Since I've been working on homemade pizzas for a little over a year now, this version with the semolina seems to be about the best, altho there are good points to all the various recipes mentioned in the various postings on this site.  (The recipes in the postings themselves I think are better than those in the recipe section up front IMO.)  But given this was my first use of semolina as a pizza crust ingredient, I am sold on it being included in all my pizzas.  I'm anxious to try it with some of my thin crust pizzas that I've been previously very happy with.

I think if you went over all the many, many postings here that you would find the conclusion of most of the Chicago deep dish pizzamaking enthusiasts to be that corn meal in fact is not a standard ingredient in Chicago deep dish.  Much had been written and commented about that most of the great deep dish pizzerias in Chicago in fact do not use it as an ingredient in their pizza crusts, contrary to popular belief as well as a lot of "copy-cat" recipes and even some of the early formulations that were included here in the recipe section up front on this site.  I don't hear of many pizzamakers using it much in their crusts anymore, but there are many who do and some like whatever affect it gives to the crust.  For me it gave a not so pleasant gritty, sandy taste to the crust.  But that is probably just a personal thing.  In any event, the best way is to try it and determine if one likes it or not.

[zalicious]

Thanks for the info . I 'll definitely check out the other threads for recipe ideas.

In regards to the use of semolina, you said " But given this was my first use of semolina as a pizza crust ingredient, I am sold on it being included in all my pizzas.  I'm anxious to try it with some of my thin crust pizzas that I've been previously very happy with." On the rare occasions that i DON'T put it in my crust, I use it 50/50 with flour for my bench flour. Yum .

[BTB]

I further experimented with a Chicago deep dish pizza using semolina as part of the flour base.  In making a small 9" pie, the only changes from the recipe indicated above was as follows:  20% semolina, as opposed to 15%, added near a half teaspoon of sugar (1.82 g) and sifted the flour this time (but not the semolina).  Baked for about 27 to 28 minutes, which is a little longer than the last time (above). 

[BTB]

With the addition of a little more semolina to the formulation, we thought it was even better.  We absolutely love the character, texture, crispness and flavor that the semolina gives to our Malnati deep dish.  We're looking forward to experimenting with semolina as part of the flour base in our thin crust pizzas, too.

[Marshenko]

This recipe is terrific.  Modified it a bit to fit a 16" (  ) 2" deep pan.  Crust was soooooooo flavorful, with wonderful texture.

[jaspr180]

I just made my first "Chicago style" pizza.   The pizza was excellent but I have a question.  I was under the impression that it would be more like a biscuit crust and mine turned out more like the texture of a graham cracker.    Is this how it was supposed to be?   I used a cast iron skillet 45min at 450F.

[BTB]

jaspr180, your question bewilders me in a way.  I dislike immensely a graham cracker crust pie (non-pizza type), so I would hate a pizza pie with a graham cracker-like dough.  I've made this recipe several times and note nothing like a graham cracker crust, so I don't know how to respond.  It is much more biscuit like and is tender, light and crispy.  Since this was your first Chicago style, did you refrain from overworking or overkneading the dough?  Mixing it for 30 to 90 seconds is all that is required.  Also, I've never made a Chicago Style with a cast iron skillet, so I don't know how that would affect the final product.  Seems others have done well with that, tho.  45 minutes is normally too long, but it depends, I guess, on the size of the pizza.  As you can see from the photos, the pizza dough looks nothing like a graham cracker crust.

[jaspr180]

jaspr180, your question bewilders me in a way.  I dislike immensely a graham cracker crust pie (non-pizza type), so I would hate a pizza pie with a graham cracker-like dough.  I've made this recipe several times and note nothing like a graham cracker crust, so I don't know how to respond.  It is much more biscuit like and is tender, light and crispy.  Since this was your first Chicago style, did you refrain from overworking or overkneading the dough?  Mixing it for 30 to 90 seconds is all that is required.  Also, I've never made a Chicago Style with a cast iron skillet, so I don't know how that would affect the final product.  Seems others have done well with that, tho.  45 minutes is normally too long, but it depends, I guess, on the size of the pizza.  As you can see from the photos, the pizza dough looks nothing like a graham cracker crust.

Yea, the crust was super crispy.  Maybe I should have pulled it from the oven way before I did.  I just trusted the 45m mark i have been reading around the forums for cast iron.   Checked my oven with a IR gun and my stone was at a perfect 450F too.  I only mixed the ingredients enough to bring them together,  45s tops.   I was happy to have at least a more crispy crust rather than bread like but still not what I had expected.    The only thing I can think of was I did do a conversion for yeast since I used IDY and the measurement was off a small margin.   Will have to remember to take pictures next time.

[BTB]

When I had some guests over last month, I further experimented with the Malnati style pizza with semolina making both a 12" pie with 20% semolina and a 9" pie with 25% semolina.  I'll briefly describe the pie with 20% first. For the 12" pizza, I used King Arthur AP and Bob's Red Mill semolina with a 1.5% bowl residue, and the formulation that I used was as follows:

Flour *** (100%):  239.82 g  |  8.46 oz | 0.53 lbs
Water (47%):  140.89 g  |  4.97 oz | 0.31 lbs
ADY (.75%):  2.25 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.59 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
Salt (.5%):  1.5 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
Olive Oil (5%):  14.99 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.33 tsp | 1.11 tbsp
Corn Oil (18%):  53.96 g | 1.9 oz | 0.12 lbs | 11.99 tsp | 4 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  3 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.63 tsp | 0.21 tbsp
Semolina (20%):  59.95 g | 2.11 oz | 0.13 lbs | 5.74 tbsp | 0.36 cups
Total (192.25%): 576.3 g | 20.33 oz | 1.27 lbs | TF = 0.126875
     
         ***Using the deep-dish dough calculation tool, the AP flour came out to
             "Flour (100%):  299.77 g  | 10.57 oz | 0.66 lbs," but as indicated above, you need to deduct
             the amount of semolina to ensure a proper balance of flour in total.

As with the formulation at the beginning of this thread, I mixed the semolina and salt with the sifted KAAP, but withheld 1/4 cup of the KAAP.  I added the water with the previously proofed ADY, mixed with a wooden spoon and by hand, covered and let rest for around 25 minutes in a warm part of the kitchen.  Then added the rest of the flour along with the oil and the small amount of melted and cooled butter.  After kneading for a very short time (est. 1 min.), I again found that I needed a teaspoon or two more of the flour, and then put the formed dough ball into a ziplock bag and into the refrigerator for 24 hours. 

Taking it out of the refrigerator the next day about 1 and 1/2 hours before baking, I patted out the dough ball into my previously oiled 12" Pizzaware deep dish pan with 2" high straight-sides.  I crimped or pinched the edges of the crust very hard to give the crust a nice real thin edge, as opposed to a thicker or fatter rim.   I then put in a layer of sliced Mozzarella cheese, then added some provolone cheese pieces, then a sausage "patty" that I made from a couple of links of specialty Italian sausage.  I had some extra fresh mozzarella that I added on top of the sausage patty just to give the pizza an extra boost of cheese.  See Pics below.

[BTB]

I then added some drained 6 in 1 sauce to which I added Penzeys pizza spices, minced garlic, white pepper, sea salt, ginger, a good dash of honey (key ingredient) and a few pieces of small diced plum tomatoes (I forget the brand), then added a good amount of grated parmesan, and then baked the pizza on the bottom oven rack at 450 degrees.  I did this in a oven other than my usual one and I was not familiar with cooking with the heating element in sight in the oven as my GE Profile electric range at home has no apparent heating element in sight on the bottom of the oven.  After 15 minutes I turned the pizza 180 degrees and continues to bake for about 10 to 12 minutes more. 

[BTB]

My guests raved about the pizza saying that it really hit the spot and that they thought it was much better than Lou Malnati's.  It was very good as the crust continued to have a tender, flaky character to it that my guests really loved.  My only regret was that it was ever so slightly overcooked, but still very tasty and flavorful.  I think the next time I use an oven like this, I will put the pizza on the next highest rack.  This and the 9" pie that I'll describe below were quickly consumed leaving only crumbs on the cutting board.

[BTB]

At the same time I made a 9" pie using a little more semolina flour (25%) to see what affect that would have.
Similar to the above, I used King Arthur AP and Bob's Red Mill semolina with a 1.5% bowl residue, and the formulation was as follows:

Flour *** (100%):  133.19 g  |  4.69 oz | 0.29 lbs
Water (47%):  83.46 g  |  2.94 oz | 0.18 lbs
ADY (.7%):  1.24 g | 0.04 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
Olive Oil (6%):  10.65 g | 0.38 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.37 tsp | 0.79 tbsp
Corn Oil (18.5%):  32.85 g | 1.16 oz | 0.07 lbs | 7.3 tsp | 2.43 tbsp
Butter/Margarine (1%):  1.78 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.38 tsp | 0.13 tbsp
Sugar (1.5%):  2.66 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.67 tsp | 0.22 tbsp
Semolina (25%):  44.39 g | 1.57 oz | 0.1 lbs | 4.25 tbsp | 0.27 cups
Cream of Tartar (.75%):  1.33 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.44 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Total (200.45%): 355.95 g | 12.56 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = 0.126875

              ***Again factoring out the amount of semolina flour from the AP flour.

The process was similar to that indicated above, except I withheld any salt and put in a smidgeon of sugar and cream of tartar to see what affect that might have. The ingredients were the same as indicated for the 12" pie mentioned above.

Note: While the above dough formulation will produce very good results when using the ingredient quantities specified, for a corrected and updated version of the dough formulation see Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg87497.html#msg87497.