Author Topic: Re: Bo Pizza  (Read 253 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2016, 07:25:10 AM »
Because of the weight of the pan (HEAVY) your approach to baking at 350F or something close to that is probably an excellent idea. Maybe that's why they were originally baked at that temperature. If you bake too hot the tops will be done before the bottoms, you might need to experiment a bit to find the correct heat balance in your oven.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

Thanks for telling me the pan will be heavy.

What I don't really understand from those Bo Pizza photos is that is says the pizza dough is placed in plastic forms.  It then shows a lady using the special roller to roll to the proper thickness with cooking oil.  Next the Bo Pizzas are shown on the sheet pans, some being filled and some already filled.  The article then goes on to say the pizzas could be baked at 350 degrees for about 5 minutes.  I take that article to mean they are baked when they are out of what would be my pan after they are frozen.  Since the Bo Pizza were sold in local grocery stores in packs of eight or twelve it seems not too hard to bake them.  It also says that they were served in the bars and many of the better hotels.


Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2016, 10:26:14 AM »
Tom and Norma,

The idea of using yeast nutrients was one that I had read about before, but not in the context of a frozen dough. However, I did see such nutrients in the following documents, one of which is an AIB document that was taken down at the AIB website but which I was able to salvage at the Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20130820191938/https://www.aibonline.org/schoolofbaking/DoughCondIngFunclist.pdf

http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/PDFs/LBU%20PDF%20FILES/1_13DOUG.PDF

I also wondered whether there was any dough ingredient that could inhibit or slow down the action of the protease enzymes, whose effect would be to attack the gluten and cause the water to be released from its bond and result in the dough being wet or sticky. I didn't have an answer so I did a Google search. From that search, I came upon an enzyme, lipoxygenase, that is often used to bleach the flour (http://www.lallemand.com/BakerYeastNA/eng/PDFs/LBU%20PDF%20FILES/1_14ENZY.PDF). However, in another document, I came upon the following:

While proteases help make dough more slack, lipoxygenases can help do the opposite. Lipoxygenases catalyze the addition of an oxygen molecule to polyunsaturated fatty acids to form peroxides such as hydroperoxy-linoleic acid. These then will interact with a gluten side chain, making the gluten more hydrophobic and, subsequently, stronger. With stronger gluten, the dough will have better gas-retention properties and increased tolerance to mixing.

In a way, lipoxygenases offer results similar to those obtained with dough strengtheners such as sodium stearoyl-2-lactylate, but they also offer additional benefits. Although the exact mechanism behind it is not fully understood, lipoxygenase can bleach fat-soluble flour pigments to produce a whiter crumb in finished bread and rolls.
(Source: http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/articles/1994/11/understanding-enzyme-function-in-bakery-foods.aspx)

I found the reference to SSL quite interesting. As an aside, Domino's uses SSL in many of its doughs, as does Rich's for many of its frozen doughs (see, for example, http://richsfoodservice.com/572/226/productdetail.html). But I also learned that soy flour naturally contains lipoxygenase. So, I wondered whether the addition of soy flour to a frozen dough formulation would keep the dough from becoming sticky at some point down the line. I was aware of the use of soy flour in frozen doughs and even tried it myself, as discussed at Reply 721 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=576.msg62457;topicseen#msg62457

I should add that soy flour tends not to be pure white. It is more like an off-white. But to the lay person, it might be described as white. But, on the plus side, soy flour existed before SSL came into vogue.

Peter

P.S. For those who are interested, to make research easier I have been collecting documents such as referenced above in the preamble section of the thread at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40212.0 (under Dough Conditioners, Additives, and Improvers)




Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2016, 12:05:50 PM »
Norma;
I'm wondering if those plastic forms are just a form into which the dough balls are placed to allow the dough to be rolled to a uniform thickness, the form would then be removed and the flattened dough pieces placed into the pan cups? You can achieve the same thing by running the dough balls through a sheeter twice with a 90 degree turn between each pass, or make a couple of gauge strips out of wood or aluminum, lay on either side of several dough balls and using a rolling pin, roll the dough out to the desired thickness (which is determined by the thickness of the gauge strips).
Peter;
The only problem with using soy flour in the manner described is that it must be a full fat soy flour so along with any dough strengthening you will also get that wonderful raw soybean flavor imparted into the dough and finished crust (we used to refer to it as a "silage" flavor in the finished product). There was available for a time a product that was referred to as a lipase modified soy flour that was sold as an additive ingredient for its dough strengthening properties (I think it was marketed by the Breddo corporation), but it was never as effective as bromate at the time. When we see soy flour being widely used in bakery products this is a defatted soy flour (about 51% protein content) that was used as a replacement for dry milk which was not popular as an ingredient due to its high price as well as volatility in price. The defatted soy flour doesn't have a flavor problem like the full fat soy flour does.
If you look at the ingredient panel on the DiGiorno bake to rise pizzas you should see both SSL and DATEM shown, remember that once the ingredient falls to 2% or less it doesn't need to be shown in order of dominance. The reason for showing both ingredients is strictly en economic one, since both ingredients provide essentially the same end result (improved/greater oven spring) they can be used interchangeably so when one is more expensive than the other they can just switch to the other one, thus staying with the least expensive of the two. To keep things on the up and up they use both ingredients in their dough but more of the cheaper one and a lot less of the expensive one (remember, they can change that around at any time because of the 2% rule).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2016, 07:03:14 PM »
Norma;
I'm wondering if those plastic forms are just a form into which the dough balls are placed to allow the dough to be rolled to a uniform thickness, the form would then be removed and the flattened dough pieces placed into the pan cups? You can achieve the same thing by running the dough balls through a sheeter twice with a 90 degree turn between each pass, or make a couple of gauge strips out of wood or aluminum, lay on either side of several dough balls and using a rolling pin, roll the dough out to the desired thickness (which is determined by the thickness of the gauge strips).

Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

I didn't think about those plastic forms being just a form into which the dough balls are place to be rolled to a uniform thickness.  That makes sense to me.  Your ideas are great for what I can try. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2016, 08:18:58 AM »
Tom and Peter,

I received the “double decker” hamburger pan from R.T. Bundy & Assoc. yesterday   It is sure is one big heavy bugger and built well.   I never saw a pan that was built so well.  :o I wonder how I should go about cutting it.  It will be too big for the freezer at market.  I also wonder if there is any advise on something that can cut bigger than 4” round circles and what size would either of you prefer?

Norma

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2016, 01:41:52 PM »
Norma;
I cut mine in half using a metal cutting band saw but you could probably do it as well using a hand held grinder and a cut-off wheel. Depending upon how good the person doing the cutting is you might lose a row of cups as we did.
For something larger in diameter you might look at the Whopper pans but the cups will not be as deep as athe 3-D pans that you have. You can also find round cake pans down to just about any diameter you want. I used to have them in 5", 6", 7" and 8" diameters, they'll be about 1" deep.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2016, 09:16:46 PM »
Norma;
I cut mine in half using a metal cutting band saw but you could probably do it as well using a hand held grinder and a cut-off wheel. Depending upon how good the person doing the cutting is you might lose a row of cups as we did.
For something larger in diameter you might look at the Whopper pans but the cups will not be as deep as athe 3-D pans that you have. You can also find round cake pans down to just about any diameter you want. I used to have them in 5", 6", 7" and 8" diameters, they'll be about 1" deep.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

Thanks for telling me how you cut your pans.  I am not that good with tools like you mentioned.  I will have to see if someone else can cut the pan. 

For right now, after the pan is cut, I will just play around with it.  I don't even know if the idea of a Bo Pizza will work.  I really don't think I want to try and make a pan pizza larger in diameter.  I use the smaller chest freezer at market for other frozen dough balls, frozen pepperoni and any leftover sauce from a Tuesday.  Some grated cheese also are store in the chest freezer.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2016, 10:07:04 PM »
Steve (Ev) cut the pan, and brought it back to me on Tuesday.  I think Steve did a great job!

I had a little leftover dough ball, so while I was doing other things at market today decided to try to thaw out the dough ball and some sauce.  The dough was cut into about 75 grams pieces.  It was then rolled out.  When trying to get it to stay flat up against the edges of the pan if didn't want to cooperate.  It kept getting bigger on the edges, even though I tried many times to get it flatter.  The sauce was applied with a pastry bag. 

At least the cut pan fit in the freezer.  The 3 mini pizzas were frozen today.

I want to ask Tom if he thinks I could make some kind of pepperoni hamburg buns that aren't too high in those pans.  I really like Sacrone's pepperoni rolls at 9th St. Italian market.  Now that I think of it those pepperoni rolls did have a sweeter taste than regular pizza dough.  I saw Tom posted somewhere about hamburg buns that are sweeter.  Any ideas Tom?  This is a photo of Sacrone's pepperoni rolls in the first photo.

Norma

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2016, 12:38:05 AM »
Norma;
I make my pepperoni rolls two different ways, one is to roll the pepperoni into the dough like rolling a pepperoni jelly roll and then cutting it to length (they look a lot like what you have pictured. The other method is to chop or grind the pepperoni into small pieces, I use my hamburger bun dough and instead of rolling the dough balls out just before panning, I hold the dough ball in one hand and make a pocket in the dough ball, then I add the pepperoni and close the filled pocket and place the dough ball back down on the counter/bench top to proof/rise for an additional 30-minutes, I then roll the filled dough ball out to fit into the pan cups and set the filled pans aside to final proof/rise for 45 to 60-minutes, then spritz with water and bake at 400F. A variation of this method is to just blend ground pepperoni into the dough (20% based on the total dough weight) and mix it in during the normal mixing process, like a pepperoni infused dough. These are then formed into rolls and baked. I sounds like what you are proposing is very similar to the first method shown.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2016, 07:16:33 AM »
Norma;
I make my pepperoni rolls two different ways, one is to roll the pepperoni into the dough like rolling a pepperoni jelly roll and then cutting it to length (they look a lot like what you have pictured. The other method is to chop or grind the pepperoni into small pieces, I use my hamburger bun dough and instead of rolling the dough balls out just before panning, I hold the dough ball in one hand and make a pocket in the dough ball, then I add the pepperoni and close the filled pocket and place the dough ball back down on the counter/bench top to proof/rise for an additional 30-minutes, I then roll the filled dough ball out to fit into the pan cups and set the filled pans aside to final proof/rise for 45 to 60-minutes, then spritz with water and bake at 400F. A variation of this method is to just blend ground pepperoni into the dough (20% based on the total dough weight) and mix it in during the normal mixing process, like a pepperoni infused dough. These are then formed into rolls and baked. I sounds like what you are proposing is very similar to the first method shown.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

Thanks for telling me how you make your pepperoni roll two different ways.  Do you mean to actually roll the pepperoni into the dough into your first method?   I like your hamburger bun dough method with putting it in the pocket.  Decisions, Descisions on what to try.  ::)

After experimenting with making mini pizzas, in the part of one pan yesterday, that would be too much work to do every week, and I don't think it would be worth the money that could be made off of them if they are then to be frozen and baked later.

I saw another idea for “what you should make for breakfast” on buzzfeed yesterday.  I wonder how that would work out in the pan  I got from R.T. Bundy & Assoc. 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahwilliams/step-up-your-brunch-game-with-these-tasty-cheesy-bacon-egg-c?utm_term=.bxQdp12XN#.nqylQKpz2 

Norma

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2016, 01:26:33 PM »
Norma;
Yes, we sheet the dough out to about 1/4-inch in thickness and form it into a rectangular shape, then wet one edge (top or bottom) with water, add pepperoni slices, or wet the entire surface and add ground pepperoni, then begin rolling the dough (jelly roll fashion) towards the wet edge (the wet edge will help to seal the seam). After the dough is rolled I like to allow it to rest (with the seam on the bottom) for a couple of minutes, then using a sharp French/chef's knife begin cutting it into desired lengths. I like to finish by placing on a baking pan with a silicone liner, spraying the top of each piece with water and sprinkling with shredded Parmesan cheese. The pepperoni on the cut edge will get lightly toasted for added flavor, if you don't want this you can manually work the dough on the cut edged to cover the pepperoni for a fully enveloped pepperoni roll. When making the pepperoni rolls by making the pocket in the dough ball I have also been known to add a little cheese to the pepperoni too. I learned this procedure when I was teaching a class in Taiwan a number of years ago where I saw them making a roll filled in this manner using steamed vegetables or red bean paste (red bean paste rolls), the rolls were brushed with egg wash and baked, I figured the procedure would work well in making pepperoni rolls too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor 

Offline norma427

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Re: Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2016, 07:54:42 PM »
Norma;
Yes, we sheet the dough out to about 1/4-inch in thickness and form it into a rectangular shape, then wet one edge (top or bottom) with water, add pepperoni slices, or wet the entire surface and add ground pepperoni, then begin rolling the dough (jelly roll fashion) towards the wet edge (the wet edge will help to seal the seam). After the dough is rolled I like to allow it to rest (with the seam on the bottom) for a couple of minutes, then using a sharp French/chef's knife begin cutting it into desired lengths. I like to finish by placing on a baking pan with a silicone liner, spraying the top of each piece with water and sprinkling with shredded Parmesan cheese. The pepperoni on the cut edge will get lightly toasted for added flavor, if you don't want this you can manually work the dough on the cut edged to cover the pepperoni for a fully enveloped pepperoni roll. When making the pepperoni rolls by making the pocket in the dough ball I have also been known to add a little cheese to the pepperoni too. I learned this procedure when I was teaching a class in Taiwan a number of years ago where I saw them making a roll filled in this manner using steamed vegetables or red bean paste (red bean paste rolls), the rolls were brushed with egg wash and baked, I figured the procedure would work well in making pepperoni rolls too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Tom,

Thanks for telling me you sheet the dough out to about ¼” in thickness and then form it into a rectangular shape, and everything else you do.  I never heard of wetting the entire surface to then adding the ground pepperoni.  What does the water do?  Does it help the ground pepperoni to stay in place while rolling?  How fine is the pepperoni ground?  I don't have any of those silicone liners, but might have to purchase one to try.  That's interesting how you learned the procedure of of adding a little bit of cheese with the pepperoni.  You sure are interesting in all you know.  This forum is lucky to have you here.  :)

Norma


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Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2016, 08:02:47 PM »
The little frozen Bo's Pizzas turned out better than I thought they would.  :o The Bo's Pizzas were taken out of the frozen pan and went right into the oven.  The pan almost froze my fingers.  I had to get a glove to take it out of the freezer.  The Bo's Pizzas were put into the convection oven on parchment paper on a regular sheet pan. 

There was decent browning on the rim crust, there wasn't any gumline, and the bottom crust was crispy.  There was even decent oven spring in the rim crust.  I still don't understand how all of that went right and no dough was frozen or gummy.

What I really thought was interesting they didn't need any chemical leavening system and the dough that was used for the Bo's Pizza was frozen before.

Quite tasty!

Norma 

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Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2016, 08:06:27 PM »
Tom and Peter,

Do either of you think a Detroit style Bo's Pizza could be made in those pans?  If they could I would guess the dough would need to be proofed first, then dressed and then frozen.  Any thoughts?

Norma

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Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2016, 10:43:17 AM »
Tom and Peter,

Do either of you think a Detroit style Bo's Pizza could be made in those pans?  If they could I would guess the dough would need to be proofed first, then dressed and then frozen.  Any thoughts?

Norma
Norma,

I don't have any particular insights on how you might make mini-Detroit style pizzas but my recollection is that you place your Detroit style dough into your pans while cold. if I got that right, maybe you can do likewise with some of your dough with the Bundy pans, and proceed as you mentioned above.

Peter

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Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2016, 12:37:44 PM »
Norma,

I don't have any particular insights on how you might make mini-Detroit style pizzas but my recollection is that you place your Detroit style dough into your pans while cold. if I got that right, maybe you can do likewise with some of your dough with the Bundy pans, and proceed as you mentioned above.

Peter

Peter,

I thought a little more about trying some mini Bo's Detroit style pizzas in those Bundy pans yesterday.  I even went so far as starting to defrost a leftover Detroit style dough.  I then thought I probably would need to bake them in the Bundy pans, after they were frozen, so the cheese would caramelize on the sides.  I gave up on that idea of trying to proof, cheese, sauce and freeze them after that.  The whole idea of making mini Bo's pizzas was to make frozen ones and then try to sell them.

Norma

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Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2016, 01:57:04 PM »
Peter,

I thought a little more about trying some mini Bo's Detroit style pizzas in those Bundy pans yesterday.  I even went so far as starting to defrost a leftover Detroit style dough.  I then thought I probably would need to bake them in the Bundy pans, after they were frozen, so the cheese would caramelize on the sides.  I gave up on that idea of trying to proof, cheese, sauce and freeze them after that.  The whole idea of making mini Bo's pizzas was to make frozen ones and then try to sell them.

Norma

Now I'm curious about trying mini detroits in a loaf pan!
Ryan

Offline norma427

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Re: Bo Pizza
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2016, 07:08:50 PM »
Now I'm curious about trying mini detroits in a loaf pan!

Ryan,

Maybe you should try that.   ;D

Norma