Growing tomatoes and basil

[RHawthorne]

So about three weeks ago, I grabbed a packet of organic San Marzano seeds on impulse (mostly just because I had never even seen them before), and I'm also thinking about growing basil (again). I'm really not a very experienced gardener, and the space I have to use is not huge, but this is something I'm willing to take on and I'm looking for some good pro tips. When I grew basil in the past, I was never all that pleased with it. It hit the basic flavor profile, but it always leaned towards the minty side and just wasn't all that potent. Likewise with potted basil plants I had bought from stores; it was okay, but not great. I have no experience at all with growing tomatoes. I know the basics: give them full sun, give them their own pot and a trellis for the vines to grow on. I can look up this kind of info elsewhere online and I will, but I was hoping maybe some experienced gardeners on the forum could chime in on the best ways of growing either of these things, since I'm already at the best place to get info for all things pizza related. Thanks in advance for any responses.

[ButteredPizza]

FWIW, San Marzano tomatoes can be tricky to grow.  I've tried growing standard and "super san marzano" for a few years and eventually gave up, they readily suffer from blossom end rot if something is slightly out of wack (weather, nutrients, watering, etc) where other varieties have no issues.  Many people do grow them and successfully, so don't let my comments discourage you

[RHawthorne]

FWIW, San Marzano tomatoes can be tricky to grow.  I've tried growing standard and "super san marzano" for a few years and eventually gave up, they readily suffer from blossom end rot if something is slightly out of wack (weather, nutrients, watering, etc) where other varieties have no issues.  Many people do grow them and successfully, so don't let my comments discourage you

OK, I'm at a place right now where I can buy gardening supplies to get the tomatoes started. Have you got any suggestions for anything I should pick up while I'm here?

[02ebz06]

You will probably have to deal with tomato worms.
Whether you want to use pesticides or other methods would be up to you.
You can Google methods and pick one.
Probably need top soil and stakes to tie the main branch to as it grows.
If not staked or trellised, tomatoes lying on the ground can rot.

[RHawthorne]

You will probably have to deal with tomato worms.
Whether you want to use pesticides or other methods would be up to you.
You can Google methods and pick one.
Probably need top soil and stakes to tie the main branch to as it grows.
If not staked or trellised, tomatoes lying on the ground can rot.

I got a tomato cage but I still need a pot. Now the next question for me is what the best kind of soil is. I know that San Marzanos in Italy grow in volcanic soil, but I'm not sure if that can be bought at a store like the one I'm at now.

[frankenfab]

I have grown a lot of tomatoes the past few years. I grow them in 55 gallon plastic barrels cut in half.

Don't worry about the volcanic soil. You can get Miracle Grow garden soil "for container's" at Lowe's or Home Depot. If you have local Farmer's Co-Op, you might be able to get worm casings to add to your soil. A little sand helps, too.

I am fortunate in that I live on 32 heavily wooded acres. I take my tractor with blade in to the woods and scrape up a pile of top soil, which is full of worms and their casings. That's all I use now, with some sand added.

As far as nutritional maintenance, Texas Tomato Food is all you need:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005LVOX1K/?tag=pmak-20

[frankenfab]

I actually have to go scrape up dirt and get some plants in barrels today.

This is my first year growing from seed. I ordered some Calabrian Chili seeds this year to add to my pepper portfolio, very excited about them.

[TXCraig1]

It's getting a bit late to start tomatoes from seeds, even in Michigan.

[foreplease]

It's getting a bit late to start tomatoes from seeds, even in Michigan.

Due to poor planning, I direct sewed 4 different varieties in mid-June year before last and they did well into October. We are having a cold spring (snowed here the last 2 Sundays). I think May 22 is our average last-frost date. It doesn't look as if I am going to plant any tomatoes this year. If I do, mid-May wouldn't scare me.


I have never been very good at starting things indoors and taking care of them properly.

[RHawthorne]

I have grown a lot of tomatoes the past few years. I grow them in 55 gallon plastic barrels cut in half.

Don't worry about the volcanic soil. You can get Miracle Grow garden soil "for container's" at Lowe's or Home Depot. If you have local Farmer's Co-Op, you might be able to get worm casings to add to your soil. A little sand helps, too.

I am fortunate in that I live on 32 heavily wooded acres. I take my tractor with blade in to the woods and scrape up a pile of top soil, which is full of worms and their casings. That's all I use now, with some sand added.

As far as nutritional maintenance, Texas Tomato Food is all you need:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005LVOX1K/?tag=pmak-20

I ended up getting a 3 gallon pot and soil that is what I think you're referring to. I'm not sure where I could get worm casings around here but I'll keep that in mind. I put that product you linked on my shopping list. Now I just need to decide when to plant the seeds, for the tomatoes and the basil both. I'm guessing the same soil I got for the tomatoes might be fine for the basil, but I don't know what else to give it in the way of nutrients. I'm sure it can't be all that complicated, but I really want to do it right. Thanks for all the info.

[RHawthorne]

I actually have to go scrape up dirt and get some plants in barrels today.

This is my first year growing from seed. I ordered some Calabrian Chili seeds this year to add to my pepper portfolio, very excited about them.

That sounds pretty appealing, too. If I'm not too mistaken, those are fairly small peppers with a mild to medium heat to them. Sounds like something useful for pizza and salsa both.

[ButteredPizza]

3 gallon pot with san marzano tomatoes will be stretching it.. well, for your first time, just have fun, and hopefully you'll get a few tomatoes .  With the small pot, as it grows, you will need to check the soil at least twice a day, if it appears to be loosing moisture, water it.  Consider some fertilizer, and look to make sure it has calcium in it - for the small pot, organic may work but will be advanced stuff.  I would recommend standard, water-soluble stuff, it will give you better results (the box stores and nurseries should have a water-soluble fertilizer for tomatoes, as your first time, anything should be fine).  The concern here will be blossom end rot with this variety.

[RHawthorne]

3 gallon pot with san marzano tomatoes will be stretching it.. well, for your first time, just have fun, and hopefully you'll get a few tomatoes .  With the small pot, as it grows, you will need to check the soil at least twice a day, if it appears to be loosing moisture, water it.  Consider some fertilizer, and look to make sure it has calcium in it - for the small pot, organic may work but will be advanced stuff.  I would recommend standard, water-soluble stuff, it will give you better results (the box stores and nurseries should have a water-soluble fertilizer for tomatoes, as your first time, anything should be fine).  The concern here will be blossom end rot with this variety.

I got Miracle Gro soil which already has fertilizer in it, and I got a 3 gallon pot because that was the recommended size for the amount of soil I got. I still haven't planted them, and I plan on doing so within the next couple of days.

[stickyD]

So about three weeks ago, I grabbed a packet of organic San Marzano seeds on impulse (mostly just because I had never even seen them before), and I'm also thinking about growing basil (again). I'm really not a very experienced gardener, and the space I have to use is not huge, but this is something I'm willing to take on and I'm looking for some good pro tips. When I grew basil in the past, I was never all that pleased with it. It hit the basic flavor profile, but it always leaned towards the minty side and just wasn't all that potent. Likewise with potted basil plants I had bought from stores; it was okay, but not great. I have no experience at all with growing tomatoes. I know the basics: give them full sun, give them their own pot and a trellis for the vines to grow on. I can look up this kind of info elsewhere online and I will, but I was hoping maybe some experienced gardeners on the forum could chime in on the best ways of growing either of these things, since I'm already at the best place to get info for all things pizza related. Thanks in advance for any responses.

For the toms, you need a greenhouse or hoop house to pull this off, but even then, in MI I doubt you will ever match the sun and warmth in Italy. Having written this, I have a handful of SM starts growing now, and our zone is similar to yours, and I do it for fun. But your venture should still prove fruitful!

Basil needs constant pruning, to promote the soft, flavorful (not bitter or minty) leaves we love. It loves sun but if it's a little too breezy the plant hardens up and is not as luxurious. Again a nice green house does wonders. Or a small hoop house, or a place in a sunny window in the kitchen.

Welcome to gardening!!!! Best thing in my life.

[RHawthorne]

For the toms, you need a greenhouse or hoop house to pull this off, but even then, in MI I doubt you will ever match the sun and warmth in Italy. Having written this, I have a handful of SM starts growing now, and our zone is similar to yours, and I do it for fun. But your venture should still prove fruitful!

Basil needs constant pruning, to promote the soft, flavorful (not bitter or minty) leaves we love. It loves sun but if it's a little too breezy the plant hardens up and is not as luxurious. Again a nice green house does wonders. Or a small hoop house, or a place in a sunny window in the kitchen.

Welcome to gardening!!!! Best thing in my life.

Gardening is something I definitely don't have a lot of experience with, so I'm not expecting amazing results with these crops right away. Hot and sunny summers are not unheard of where I live, but there's no doubt that the overall climate here is nothing like it is in Italy. I've got some learning to do.

[stickyD]

Gardening is something I definitely don't have a lot of experience with, so I'm not expecting amazing results with these crops right away. Hot and sunny summers are not unheard of where I live, but there's no doubt that the overall climate here is nothing like it is in Italy. I've got some learning to do.

Not sure what literature you have but we found this to be a great book when we were starting out continue to use it:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/160342475X/?tag=pmak-20

[ButteredPizza]

I got Miracle Gro soil which already has fertilizer in it, and I got a 3 gallon pot because that was the recommended size for the amount of soil I got. I still haven't planted them, and I plan on doing so within the next couple of days.

Post photos of its growth once potted   

[frankenfab]

What really got me in to tomatoes, and gave me great success was Craig LeHoullier's book, available on Amazon, and his YouTube videos.
His dense planting method for seeds works so well.

I can't get MetroMix 360 anymore, so I used Miracle Grow seed starting mix this year, and I bought some bricks of coco coir from Amazon to make my own seedling mix. I use miracle grow potting mix for vegetables when I transplant the seedlings in to 12 ounce plastic cups from Sam's club. I melt a drain hole in the bottom of the cups with a pencil type soldering iron.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoYgX3y5ptQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLbeZEcz3sw&t=250s

[frankenfab]

Some of the peppers and tomatoes I did this year:

[RHawthorne]

Update: I'm going to plant today or tomorrow (hopefully today), and I'm realizing that I don't even know the answer to the most basic question:  do I plant one seed for one plant? The directions on the package of tomato seeds say to plant the seeds 24" apart, but I'm only using a 3 gallon pot, so if that's the case, I would think that one seed would be all it can really handle. Should I even bother with the 3 gallon bucket, or do I need to get a bigger one? Also, I've heard it mentioned that worm casings would be helpful, but does anyone have any suggestions for anything else I should add to the soil before planting the seed? I'm using Miracle Gro seed start soil with fertilizer, but it's not necessarily tailor made for tomatoes. I want to add anything I need to before planting the seed(s). Also, these are heirloom SM's, if that makes any difference.