My first attempt at Sicilian Style Pizza

[cajunrph]

It was just my bride and I at home for Christmas Day lunch/Dinner so I tried my hand at a Sicilian pan pizza. Here's what I did.

I used the pizza dough calculator app for my dough. I was unsure of the TF, a search lead me to a range of .12-.14. I used 0.12. The dough recipe is as follows. This was for 2 pizzas. One will be a Detroit style pizza tonight.

KAAPF                           850GM   (100%)
Filtered H2O.                 550ml     (65%)
Red Star ADY                3.4GM    (0.4%)
Redmond Salt.              12.75gm. (1.5%)
No oil

I usually use KA Sir Lancelot flour for my pizzas, but had some all purpose flour to use up. My wife doesn't use AP or Bread flour. She prefers self rising flour for her baking needs. But she doesn't make pizza or any type of bread. That's my domain. I'll likely go back to Sir Lancelot after I use up the KAAP Flour. And the bag of Gold Metal AP flour that ended up at the house.

For my sauce:

28oz Can of Cento San Marzano Whole pealed tomato. Drained and crushed then drained a second time.

28oz Can of San Merican Crushed tomatos. Drained. This was a disappointment as I had hardly any left after draining the tomatos. And it was a very corse crush. You could have easily say it was chopped.

2 cloves of garlic minced.
1 tea Redmond Salt
1/2 Tea Oregano
1/2 Tea Red Pepper Flakes
1/2 Tea Thai Basil. Because that's all I had or I'd have used regular basal
No oil

Sad face for oil because I failed to use oil when I intended to.


Procedure. I mixed the dough on Christmas Eve at about 6 pm. I allowed it to room ferment till roughly 11:pm. The dough had tripled in that time. I separated the dough into two halves by eye. Shapes them into a ball and into two oiled containers to cool ferment. The dough balls were roughly 700 grams each. Give or take. My pan is a 17x11 well seasoned baking pan. It's made many a batch of anything from biscuits to bacon.

On Christmas Day I took one of the dough balls out at about 10 am to allow it to come to room temperature. At about noon or a tad later I took the dough out of the container and tried to get it stretched out onto an oiled pan. I had to come back about 3 times with a 15-minute rest in between before it fit. When stretching out the dough, it was very thin in some areas. It has been since the summer when I made any pizza and my technique was rusty. This is also the first square-pan pizza I have made.

For the warm ferment, I turned my oven on to its lowest setting(170) and allowed the oven to heat up. I have two pizza steels that live full-time in the oven. When the dough was ready to go into the oven I put the second baking pan over the stretched dough and put it into the now off oven. I checked the temp after 5 minutes in the oven. It was shooting 120 on the sides. The pan itself was about 113. The dough was 97. I took the dough out and left the oven door open to allow it to cool off. After 5 min the dough went back in. After 5 minutes I checked the temperature. It's back up to 115 on the sides. The dough itself is in the mid-90s. This time I cracked open the door with a few welding gloves. That kept the temps in line. I didn't account for the steel to be a heat sink. It's good and bad. Next time I'll try a much shorter preheat. I let the dough rise in the pan for 90 minutes total.

I took the dough out and dressed it. A layer of freshly grated mozzarella and some freshly grated white extra sharp cheddar. About half of a  pound of mozzarella and 2 or so ounces of white cheddar. Next was the sauce. Then topped with sliced salami, pepperoni, chopped onions, mushrooms, and olives. The oven was preheating to 500 degrees from the time the dough came out. About 20 minutes or so. The pizza pan was set on a baking steel and I baked the pie for 10 minutes and turned the pan 180 on for another 8 minutes. I pulled it out to check the bottom. Not done enough so back in another 5 minutes. This time it was better. Not perfect but the toppings were starting to burn. Even with a second pan on the rack above the pizza pan.

The pizza was great. The crust was nice, airy, and about a 1/2 inch thick. Sorry, I didn't take pics of the pizza after slicing. The crust was done, but not a deep brown color. A lighter brown color. And it was a tad wet under the pizza when I was putting the leftovers in the fridge.

I'd like to get the bottom done more without burning the top. The easiest solution may be to just par bake the bare dough for about 10 minutes then dress the pizza. I can't get my oven much over 500 without it going into overheating mode. A longer preheat time may be needed. But that complicates the pan rise as my house is kept quite cold, about 68 degrees. I do have a homemade bread-proofing chamber made out of an insulated food delivery bag and a warming mat for amphibians with a grate over the mat. I could modify that for my pan rise. What do the more learned fellas here think?

I did wing this bit too much, I've baked many a loaf of bread and quite a few pizzas in my oven and my Gozney, but the last one was in the summer. Overconfidence led to the omission of oil in the dough and the sauce. It was still durn tasty. My wife was quite pleased as was I. I might try a grandma pizza soon and see if the rise time is worth the effort. Any suggestions and/or critiques are welcome. I'm here to learn.

[cajunrph]

My second attempt. This time I tried a Grandma style. Or a Sicilian style without the rise.

I used the same basic dough as before but this time I added some olive oil. I used the dough calculator here.

KAAF                              825GM             (100%)
Filtered H2O.  RT           525ML.             (65%)
Olive Oil.                         12.36GM.         (1.5%)
Redmond Sea Salt.        12.36Gm.         (1.5%)
ADY.                                3.29Gm.          (0.4%)     

Sauce was the same as above

I mixed this in my Bosch Universal Plus Mixer. Process was at flour, salt and yeast to mixer.
1) Mix for 30 seconds or so on setting 1.   
2) Add water to dry ingredients slowly till all incorporated. Run mixer for a few minute.
3) Rest mixture for 20 minutes. I had to go to the store to get something.
4) Mix in setting 2 for 10 or so minutes.

Dough was sticky at step 2 and also 3. After step 4 I dumped the dough out on the counter in a futile attempt to do some slap and folds. The dough was simply too wet. Nothing I did would tighten up the dough. I ended up scraping the dough into an oiled container and doing stretch and folds. This worked. In hindsight I should have let the dough rest a second time and then try the slap and folds. As it was I have to resort to stretch and folds in a container to get the dough to become smooth. I have not had any luck with mixing dough to the proper stage in my Bosch. I've always had to do some slap and folds or hand kneading. This time was the longest I ran the mixer. It was just under 10 minutes. I think. I didn't time it. I don't see the reason to use a mixer if I'm going to have to stretch and fold in a container. I might as well just mix in the container and do the stretch and folds to build structure and gluten strands. If anyone has suggestions let me know.

After about 4 stretch and folds over an hours time, the dough went into the fridge to cold ferment. About 42 hours in the fridge I took it out and divided it into two somewhat equal portions. One back into the fridge and the other into an oiled sealed container to get to room temp. It stayed on the counter about 3 hours. It took three stretch and wait with 15 minute intervals before the dough would stay put. I used slice cheeses and did the cheese in the corner anchor trick to move things along. The pizza was topped with deli slices pepperoni and Salami as well as some chopped onions and sliced mushrooms. The pizza turned out pretty good, but the bottom wasn't crisp or charred like a Grandma pizza. I likely need more oil. I put it on thicker than usual. Not enough to give the charred crisp crust a Grandma Pizza is known for. Comments and critiques are welcomed. Here's some pics of tonight's bake.

[cajunrph]

I'm baaaacckkkk!!! I'll be using this thread to journal my Sicilian bakes. Any comments and critique are more than welcome. I'm trying to improve my pizza game.

My Walter Smiling Hope pizza pan sat idle for far too long while I baked other pizzas and started other food odysseys. Recently I started back at making pizza and fired up the ole Roccbox and made some good pizza. Sheet pan pizza followed closely after and there was the Walter pan, peaking out from the corner of the pan storage above the oven. He was in need of a repair of the botched seasoning attempt that got him benched last year. I ended up setting the pan in the over and turning on the cleaning function. Not the recommended procedure but I didn't think to check Walters website for the recommended procedures. This gave me a clean slate to work on as the pan looked like the day I received it from Walter. A few seasoning and it was ready to bake. Inspired by TXCraig's thread on NY Squares, I gave it a whirl. The basic recipe is as follows:

KASL                100%
H2O.                  65%
EVOO.                  3%
Salt                      2%
Sugar.                  1%
Anthony's DM        1%
ADY                    Per TXCraigs table


I wasn't sure if the Diastatic power of Anthony's I realized it was expired after I started the process. I left it out for the second bake. The sugar I used was a mixture of brown sugar, white sugar and palm sugar because I have a whole container of that mixture left over from when I was making Water Keifer.  I used a TF of .12 from my research here. I mainly needed some starting point so I could get going and then make adjustments if needed.

Saturdays bake was one Sicilian and one Detroit Style Pizza made with the same dough. The Detroit style pizza pan is a Lloyd's 8x10. I used a TF bale 0.13 for the DSP. I punch all the pertinent information into the Pizza Dough Calculator app and off to the races. Not really racing. To the Bosch. Mixed the dough till mixed to my liking, on to the kneeling surface for some slap and folds, rest and more slap and folds. Next I divided the doughs and  into the pans to proof for 5 hours. I greased the pans with Crisco before stretching out the dough some. In hindsight I should have left the dough in balls and then stretched out the dough in oiled pans, not just greased. Dunno, as some have been successful with grease I think. At any rate, the par baked dough stuck on Saturday. I was able to get it off without too much damage and scrape off the offending stuck crust. I did make sure the pan was oiled up well for the final bake. All in all it was a good bake, a good learning experience and the pizza was a hit with all.

[gcpizza]

I'm baaaacckkkk!!! I'll be using this thread to journal my Sicilian bakes. Any comments and critique are more than welcome. I'm trying to improve my pizza game.

Sometimes pizza pictures look great and the pizza tastes great.  Sometimes pizza pictures look great, but the pizza tastes eh. Sometimes pizza pictures look eh, but the pizza tastes great.

Your pizza pictures look great. Since we can't taste the pizza what do you think needs to be improved?

[cajunrph]

Sometimes pizza pictures look great and the pizza tastes great.  Sometimes pizza pictures look great, but the pizza tastes eh. Sometimes pizza pictures look eh, but the pizza tastes great.

Your pizza pictures look great. Since we can't taste the pizza what do you think needs to be improved?

They were tasty also, a hit at the house. My improvement would be more in the technique than the taste, namely seasoning the pan enough to have the pizza slide out like I saw in one of Walter's shorts on YouTube. And the timing of the bake to make one fit in on a workday. I get home at about 6:15 most days, which makes a CT ferment a challenge to get the dough warm enough to stretch. I did do a Neopolitaian/NY round bake last week with a 72-hour CT fermentation, on that day I set the dough containers outside on my BBQ Grill table to warm up. The Texas heat helped them warm up quicker, but in the wintertime that may not be so helpful. My wife likes to keep the house at 68 degrees and that posed a problem before. 

[cajunrph]

I watched many of Walters shorts on YouTube regarding his pans and I saw one where the pizza just slid out of the pan and I thought that's what I want to accomplish with my Walter pans. Only one way to do that, get to mixing dough and slinging out pizzas. I got up early on Tuesday to make the dough. The plan was for enough for two pizzas but one would be balled up and immediately put in the fridge, the other would be left on the counter to rise till I arrived home from work. I was shooting for being done mixing the dough and balling the dough balls by 7am, I missed that my a few minutes. I baked on e pizza the day of the mix and the second one was planned for the next day or the day following. I need to find a routine that will allow me to bake some pies on weekdays after work. CT ferments tend to take a while to warm up as my wife likes to keep the temps in the house at 68. Anywho. The dough recipe is as follows:

12 Hour RT (68 degrees) ferment.

KASL Flour            580gm      100%
H2O.                      370ml.        65%ish
EVOO.                    17.4gm        3%
Salt.                      11.6gm.        2%
Sugar.                      5.8gm        1% 
ADY.                    0.596gm.  0.104%


This time I omitted the diastatic malt as what I had was expired. The Yeast percentage is an uneducated guesstimate from TXCraigs chart as there wasn't a 12 hour ferment time listed for 68 degrees. The chart jumped from 10 hours to 14. I split the difference and came up with the 0.104. I'll adjust if need be going forward. Everything mixed up well with some rest in the mixing bowl and some slap and folds and resting on the counter. The balls were great smooth dough balls, the kind I used to envy when I started my bread making and pizza dough journey. It was about 15 after 7 when I was done and the dough balls were in their respective containers.

6:15pm: I get home and the dough that was sitting at room temperature is looking good. Oven was turned on to 525 to warm up. Next I oil up the Walter pan, stretch the dough ball as far as it will go, cover it with foil and set it outside to pan rise for around an hour. Back inside to prep the toppings. I found some Buffalo Mozzarella at my local Krogers on Monday evening when I was shopping for pizza toppings. They were on clearance due to the best by date being 8-19. I picked up two containers.

After about an hour I brought the pizza dough back inside and proceeded to stretch the dough into place. It took a few rest before it stayed put. After it was all said and done, the dough had over an hour to pan rise. I docked the dough because in my previous par-bakes the dough rose significantly during the 8 minutes I par-baked the dough. I did dress the dough with the leftover tomato juice/sauce I had from straining the San Marzano tomato's. After 8 minutes of par-baking I pulled the dough out and slid the plastic spatula under the dough and guess what? The dough slid out almost as slick as the one Walter slid out in his videos. Quite pleased with that I proceeded to oil the pan up and put the par baked crust back in the pan. I topped with sauce, grated Gouda and Mozzarella, then topped with the pepperoni and salami, some red onions and green bell peppers, both of the Buffalo Mozzarella balls and then pinches of Italian Sausage. Back into the over for 8 minutes on the top baking steel and an additional 8 minutes on the bottom baking steel. When I transferred from the top steel to the bottom I noticed a bunch of moisture in the middle of the pizza. I realized that I shouldn't have used that much fresh mozzarella and should have done something to remove the excess moisture before topping the pizza with it. In the end the middle was under cooked on top, but the underside was a great brown color. But it still are very nicely. I did like the crust very much. There a nice Maillard reaction going on with the crust. I'm guessing the sugar content is contributing to this browning I'm and to the extra taste I'm sensing. For the next bake I'll use less fresh Mozzarella and try and dry it out as much as I can. No complaints from the family while they scarfed down the pizza. More to come.

[foreplease]

What do the more learned fellas here think?

I think you should ask the women of the forum too or, even better, not distinguish between men and women.

This has been on my mind a good long time so it is nothing personal against you. I think there are too many of us men here who assume women cannot make pizza as well as men, often expressing themselves as though there are no women who even participate on the forum. Not so, happily.

[cajunrph]

I think you should ask the women of the forum too or, even better, not distinguish between men and women.

This has been on my mind a good long time so it is nothing personal against you. I think there are too many of us men here who assume women cannot make pizza as well as men, often expressing themselves as though there are no women who even participate on the forum. Not so, happily.

Good point, I am mostly on wet shaving and pipe smoking forums which are all men. I can see how some would see this the wrong way. There was no harm intended. 

[foreplease]

Good point, I am mostly on wet shaving and pipe smoking forums which are all men. I can see how some would see this the wrong way. There was no harm intended.

I have no doubt about that. Thanks for your kind reply. Yours was just the post I had read when I had read it one time too many.

[cajunrph]

I have no doubt about that. Thanks for your kind reply. Yours was just the post I had read when I had read it one time too many.

No problem. You have a blessed and enjoyable evening. 

[gcpizza]

They were tasty also, a hit at the house. My improvement would be more in the technique than the taste, namely seasoning the pan enough to have the pizza slide out like I saw in one of Walter's shorts on YouTube. And the timing of the bake to make one fit in on a workday. I get home at about 6:15 most days, which makes a CT ferment a challenge to get the dough warm enough to stretch. I did do a Neopolitaian/NY round bake last week with a 72-hour CT fermentation, on that day I set the dough containers outside on my BBQ Grill table to warm up. The Texas heat helped them warm up quicker, but in the wintertime that may not be so helpful. My wife likes to keep the house at 68 degrees and that posed a problem before.

I wouldn't worry about the pan. It sounds like it's coming along and after a couple more bakes it should be where you want it.

As to your other problem of getting your cold fermented dough to the correct shaping/baking temperature when the ambient temperature of your living space is on the cool side - What about using a proofing box to give the dough a warmer and controlled environment for its warm up prior to the bake? Some of the units sold for home use don't seem to be all that expensive.

[cajunrph]

I wouldn't worry about the pan. It sounds like it's coming along and after a couple more bakes it should be where you want it.

As to your other problem of getting your cold fermented dough to the correct shaping/baking temperature when the ambient temperature of your living space is on the cool side - What about using a proofing box to give the dough a warmer and controlled environment for its warm up prior to the bake? Some of the units sold for home use don't seem to be all that expensive.

Thank you for the reply. I do have a proofing "box" I made during my foray into sourdough bread. It's an insulated food delivery bag, a reptilian heating mat, and some wire racks. I was able to set the temperature of the container fairly well. It worked out for that. I may have to whip it out, dust it off, and see what it gives me. I'll post a report of yesterday's bake later. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

[cajunrph]

Last night's bake:


The second dough ball from the dough I mixed up Tuesday morning was put in the fridge for Tuesday and taken about 8:45am Wednesday for a bake in the evening after work. My goal is to be able to mix dough and use only a portion of the dough for a bake that day, with the remainder going in the fridge for a bake on another day. I know many factors will come into play in achieving success. I will have to adjust the yeast percentage and time in the fridge until I achieve success. I'd also like to keep the pan rise to an hour or so so we don't have to eat too late. 

When I arrived home I oiled the Walter Pan and stretched the dough as well as I could. I noticed the dough was still a bit cold due to the cold house. I covered the pan with foil and set it outside in the Texas heat to pan-rise while I made the toppings. It took longer to stretch into place than the dough that stayed at room temperature for the duration of its ferment, and even after an hour outside in what was likely 90 degrees, the dough still felt a bit cold. 

The 8-minute par-bake was fine, with not much sticking at all. I topped it with sauce first, then a mixture of fresh grated aged white cheddar and Monterey Jack, toppings were pepperoni, salami, red onions, green bell peppers, and Italian sausage. I used one of my remaining buffalo mozzarella balls, which I broke apart and drained well before topping the pizza.  The pizza was a bit of fluidity in the middle when I switched from the top steel to the bottom steel, it did not seem to be water, but likely it was fat from all the cheese and the Italian sausage. I used a bunch of cheese, I'm sure my cardiologist let out a cry as I took the first bite. But it was ohh so good. The middle top side did not bake as well as I'd like, the bottom was a nice brown color throughout. I did reduce the temps on this bake, the bake on Tuesday I had the oven at its peak temperature ~525ish. This time I backed it down to a set 500 degrees which is 450. A successful bake, areas of improvement are more crust rise and being to start the bake a tad earlier.  

Maybe some time under the broiler will cook the top better. Or would it burn the toppings more? Chime in if you have any pearls of wisdoms. 

Being 90 outside I don't know how much different my proofing box set up would be. The proofing box would help more in the winter when it's cooler outside. 

[cajunrph]

A spur of the moment bake. I had nothing really planned for supper this evening and thought this morning, why not pizza. Same day bake. So here it goes.

KASL              290gm
H2O.              190gm
ADY.            0.361gm. 
EVOO.            8.58gm
NaCl.              5.72gm
Sugar.            2.83gm
No DM

One ball was made. I started weighing out the ingredients at about 6:45ish. All was mixed up by 7:00 am. I did not use the mixer today. Hand mixing and stretch and folds like Ken Forkish taught in his book. Everything balled up and in the container by 8 am and I was off to the shower.

I got home at 6:30 and stretched the dough out to fit the Walter Pan as well as it would. Covered the pan with aluminum foil and outside on the Roccbox table to pan rise. At about 6:50ish I stretched the dough and recovered it. 7:30 the dough comes back inside and it stretches into place with no issue at all. I docked the dough and par-baked it for 8 minutes at 475 convection. The over was on since 6:30. I didn't use any sauce for the par-bake. 8 minutes pass and the crust comes out of the pan with minimal effort. Topped and back into the oven for 8 minutes on the upper steel and 8 min on the lower steel. Pizza comes out and almost slides off the pan as Walters does in his video. This is a fantastic pan and will only get better with continued use. 475 is a lower temp than I used before, the first one was a set 550 which is really 500. My oven is 50 degrees off. The second time it was set for 500. Both times, as is to be expected, the crust was darker. This time it was a tad bit lighter,  it was still crunchy and crisp, but the char and  Maillard's reaction wasn't quite there. Back up to 500. Also, this time I had less of a soggy middle, I left the fresh mozzarella balls off of this one and you could tell the difference. My wife actually said this was the best one yet. How about that? It was a last-second thing and she liked it the best. I'll take it. Some pics of the pie before and after and a pic of the pan after today's bake.

[cajunrph]

A morning mix, evening Sicilian pizza bake. I upped the TF from .12 to .13 this time to getting a thicker crust. I felt it was lacking before. Everything else was the same.

KASL.              620gm.    100%
H2O.                403ml.      65%
ADY.              0.784gm.  0.124%
EVOO.            18.6gm.        3%
Sea Salt.          12.4gm.        2%
Sugar.                6.2gm.        1%

Two balls at 516gm each.

Mixed in my Bosch mixer starting at about 7am, balled up into containers by 8am. RT ferment till 6:30pm, one dough ball stretched into the pan, second dough ball placed in the fridge. I'll bake it on Sunday the 1st. I upped the temps of the over to a set 525 on the convection setting. The crust was darker, almost too dark, I'll reduce the temps to 500 set and see what I get. I may add the DM back in and see what I get. We shall see. This time I added some jalapeño and black olives. The the same toppings as the previous bakes. My bride loved it again.

The Walter pan is seasoned great. Par-bakes and final bakes are sliding off the pans like the egg slid off Arnold Schwarzenegger jacket. The one when he grabbed the mic and asked

"Where is my 'am?? You can't have eggs without 'am!!!"


Pics of the bake to follow. Blessing for all and the best bakes.

[cajunrph]

The second dough ball from the Friday dough mix was baked Sunday. It had risen during cold ferment quite a bit. It took more time to stretch out to reach the entire pan. But it worked just fine and the thickness was great. The best so far. I had to let this dough sit outside for close to 2 hours. That wouldn't work for a weekday bake. It was fine for yesterday. The longer fermentation in the fridge coupled with the longer pan rise resulted in the best one yet. That was verified with my lovely bride. She said this was the best yet.

[waltertore]

glad you are enjoying the journey and pies are looking good