When to start timing/what counts as 'room temperature ferment"?

[P!zzaN00b]

Hi all, this is potentially a very silly question.. when does one start counting time for a 'room temp ferment'? I use PizzApp and it has RT and CT, you choose your temperature and amount of hours to get your yeast dose. 

Do I start counting from the first time I mix yeast into the dough? Or is it after the kneading and resting steps? When the dough is in the fridge for 2-3 days and I bring it out for 2 hours before making pizza to warm up, does this count as room temp fermenting? 

For example (not necessarily a real recipe):

Step 1 - add flour, water, yeast, knead
Step 2 - add salt, knead. Rest.
Step 3 - stretch and fold, rest. Repeat however many times.
Step 4 - bench rest bulk dough for X hours
Step 5 - into the fridge for Y hours (either bulk or balls)
Step 6 - out of the fridge and onto the bench to warm up for Z hours before baking
Step 7 - stretch, top, bake

Do I start timing 'room temp ferment' from Step 1, 2, 3, or 4? Does step 6 count into the total time at room temp?

Thanks

[Pizza_Not_War]

It really doesn't matter. The important thing is consistency from batch to batch so you dial in a process and eventually learn to read the dough and know when it's ready.

[PapaJawnz]

I begin the timer once the yeast, water and flour are fully mixed.

[P!zzaN00b]

I begin the timer once the yeast, water and flour are fully mixed.

Thanks. Do you factor in the time between coming out of the fridge and coming up to temperature before baking?

[PapaJawnz]

Thanks. Do you factor in the time between coming out of the fridge and coming up to temperature before baking?

No, not really.  The dough is pretty much at an in-between stage at that point.  I've never seen the dough really show any signs of over fermenting or growing drastically during the 2 hour warm up period.

[stamina888]

I'd start the timer after the dough is mixed.

But keep in mind, that dough may proof more quickly in bulk than after its portion/balled.  An hour of bulk ferment isnt the same as an hour of proofing in ball form.

[P!zzaN00b]

Out of interest, I emailed PizzApp to clarify this, and this is their response:

The RT time to input is from step 1 to step 5 plus time from step 6 to step 7 (total RT time from kneading to baking), while CT time is from step 5 to step 6 (Y hours). The app considers the time needed to cool the dough in step 5 and reheat it in step 6.

So it looks like they do want us to count the time the dough balls spend on the bench after the fridge and before stretching.

Cheers

[Anton1]

Hi all, this is potentially a very silly question.. when does one start counting time for a 'room temp ferment'? I use PizzApp and it has RT and CT, you choose your temperature and amount of hours to get your yeast dose.

Do I start counting from the first time I mix yeast into the dough? Or is it after the kneading and resting steps? When the dough is in the fridge for 2-3 days and I bring it out for 2 hours before making pizza to warm up, does this count as room temp fermenting?

For example (not necessarily a real recipe):

Step 1 - add flour, water, yeast, knead
Step 2 - add salt, knead. Rest.
Step 3 - stretch and fold, rest. Repeat however many times.
Step 4 - bench rest bulk dough for X hours
Step 5 - into the fridge for Y hours (either bulk or balls)
Step 6 - out of the fridge and onto the bench to warm up for Z hours before baking
Step 7 - stretch, top, bake

Do I start timing 'room temp ferment' from Step 1, 2, 3, or 4? Does step 6 count into the total time at room temp?

Thanks

Posed similar question to ChatGPT and received this response:

Q: with respect to bread dough fermentation, does active yeast fermentation start at the beginning of the lag phase?

A: ChatGPT
In bread dough fermentation, active yeast fermentation does not start immediately at the beginning of the lag phase. The lag phase is the initial period after yeast is introduced to the dough, during which the yeast cells acclimate to their environment. During this time, they are not yet actively fermenting but are instead preparing for active fermentation. This preparation involves:

• Hydration and Rehydration: Yeast cells absorb water and swell.
• Nutrient Uptake: Yeast cells take in nutrients from the dough, such as sugars and amino acids.
• Adaptation: Yeast cells adjust to the new environment, which may involve repairing cell membranes and initiating the synthesis of enzymes needed for fermentation.

Once the yeast cells are acclimated and have the necessary conditions for growth, they enter the log phase (or exponential phase), where active fermentation begins. During this phase, yeast cells rapidly consume sugars and produce carbon dioxide and ethanol, leading to the leavening of the dough.
In summary, active yeast fermentation starts after the lag phase, during the log phase.


Q: Example of how temperature affects the time of yeast lag phase?

A: ChatGPT
Temperature has a significant impact on the duration of the yeast lag phase. Here are some examples of how different temperatures can affect the time it takes for yeast to transition from the lag phase to active fermentation:

• Low Temperatures (Below 10°C / 50°F):
  
  • Yeast activity is greatly slowed down.
  • The lag phase can be prolonged significantly, sometimes lasting several hours or even days.
  • Fermentation is very slow, and the dough may take a long time to rise.
• Moderate Temperatures (20-30°C / 68-86°F):
  
  • This range is generally considered optimal for yeast fermentation.
  • The lag phase is shorter, typically lasting 30 minutes to 2 hours.
  • Yeast cells acclimate quickly, and fermentation proceeds efficiently.
• High Temperatures (Above 35°C / 95°F):
  
  • Yeast activity increases initially, leading to a shorter lag phase.
  • However, excessively high temperatures can stress yeast cells and potentially kill them, especially if temperatures exceed 40°C (104°F).
  • The dough may rise quickly, but the fermentation process can be uneven or lead to undesirable flavors if temperatures are too high.

Example Scenarios:

• At 5°C (41°F):
  
  • The lag phase can last up to 8-12 hours as yeast cells are very sluggish at this temperature.
  • Dough fermentation is slow, and the dough might not rise significantly without extended proofing times.
• At 25°C (77°F):
  
  • The lag phase typically lasts around 30 minutes to 1 hour.
  • Fermentation is efficient, and the dough rises predictably within a few hours.
• At 37°C (98.6°F):
  
  • The lag phase can be as short as 15-30 minutes due to increased yeast activity.
  • Fermentation is very rapid, but there's a risk of yeast stress and potential over-fermentation if not monitored closely.

These examples highlight how critical temperature control is in the bread-making process to ensure optimal yeast performance and consistent dough fermentation.