I have a gas oven with broiler on bottom, where to place 2 steels?

[Buddha]

I believe my oven can get close to 550 degrees. I want to use 2 steels. Where should I place them?

[TXCraig1]

Many/most ovens only need 1 steel - placed as high as you can in the oven as you can while still leaving enough room to work. The top of the oven is as effective as a steel for top heat.

If by "broiler on the bottom" you mean the heating element or flame is on the bottom and exposed, you might benefit by having both steels below the pizza separated by an inch or so. This created an "air gap" which will sloe the heat transfer from the heating element/flame. One weakness of steel is that because it's so conductive, having directly over a heat source can lead to black bottoms. You don't need two steels to accomplish this. A pan or baking sheet below the top steel would accomplish the same thing.

[gcpizza]

Many/most ovens only need 1 steel - placed as high as you can in the oven as you can while still leaving enough room to work. The top of the oven is as effective as a steel for top heat.

If by "broiler on the bottom" you mean the heating element or flame is on the bottom and exposed, you might benefit by having both steels below the pizza separated by an inch or so. This created an "air gap" which will sloe the heat transfer from the heating element/flame. One weakness of steel is that because it's so conductive, having directly over a heat source can lead to black bottoms. You don't need two steels to accomplish this. A pan or baking sheet below the top steel would accomplish the same thing.

As you are the resident heat expert here I have a question maybe you can provide some guidance on - Given what you've written here and given the reflective qualities of shiny surfaces, would a bright and unseasoned stainless steel or aluminium sheet pan on the rack a position or two above the baking steel or stone provide better top heat for baking pizza than the generally darker in color oven ceiling?

[Buddha]

Many/most ovens only need 1 steel - placed as high as you can in the oven as you can while still leaving enough room to work. The top of the oven is as effective as a steel for top heat.

If by "broiler on the bottom" you mean the heating element or flame is on the bottom and exposed, you might benefit by having both steels below the pizza separated by an inch or so. This created an "air gap" which will sloe the heat transfer from the heating element/flame. One weakness of steel is that because it's so conductive, having directly over a heat source can lead to black bottoms. You don't need two steels to accomplish this. A pan or baking sheet below the top steel would accomplish the same thing.

My oven has the broiler on the bottom where the heating source is. I saw Tony G uses 2 steels one on top and one on bottom racks with a oven with broiler on top. He starts at the top then transfers to the bottom. Android from the baking steel company does the same thing. I have two steels but have only used one so far. I just wondered if there was a benefit to using 2steels. I have no problem getting the bottom of my pizza browned.

[Yuvalvv]

As you are the resident heat expert here I have a question maybe you can provide some guidance on - Given what you've written here and given the reflective qualities of shiny surfaces, would a bright and unseasoned stainless steel or aluminium sheet pan on the rack a position or two above the baking steel or stone provide better top heat for baking pizza than the generally darker in color oven ceiling?

Not Craig, but if I understand you correctly, in most cases, the opposite is true. High-reflective surfaces (low emissivity) are poor emitters of thermal radiation, thus they do not radiate much heat themselves and only reflect thermal radiation from other sources. So using a less emissive surface for cooking the top (and also the bottom) of the pizza will actually be less effective.

But it also depends on the baking setup - if there's only a bottom heating element, then placing a reflective surface right above the pizza MIGHT help with better heat distribution to the top of the pizza by reflecting heat from other sources. However if the pizza can be placed on a higher rack and closer to the oven ceiling (as Craig mentioned), then that would be a much better option, especially if the gap between the oven ceiling and the reflective surface placed above the pizza is similar.

I just wondered if there was a benefit to using 2steels.

Not really. Like Craig said, just place the pizza as close to the oven's ceiling as possible.

[gcpizza]

But it also depends on the baking setup - if there's only a bottom heating element, then placing a reflective surface right above the pizza MIGHT help with better heat distribution to the top of the pizza by reflecting heat from other sources. However if the pizza can be placed on a higher rack and closer to the oven ceiling (as Craig mentioned), then that would be a much better option, especially if the gap between the oven ceiling and the reflective surface placed above the pizza is similar.

This is the scenario that I was pondering. The higher emistivity of the steel as I understand it regarding pizza baking is beneficial by a higher conductivity to the pizza bottom and I'm deducing through a prior exchange with Craig that the transfer of heat by air would be very low comparatively. I'm also thinking that radiating heat would be low from the dark oven ceiling which would absorb more than radiate, which is why using two steels isn't beneficial. My question here is - Would the heat transfer by conductivity through air and by low  radiation from the ceiling be more effective than reflecting and concentrating the radiated heat from the oven's bottom and element to the top of the pizza? I myself use a single steel and engage the broiler element if more top heat is needed. The broiler element provides a lot of radiated heat. A less intense option may prove beneficial in some situations.

[Yuvalvv]

So, I have a very detailed article about this topic and how pizza is baked, but it's not translated yet

In short:

The bottom of the pizza, where the dough touches the baking surface, is baked through conductivity.
In areas where there is no direct contact between the bottom of the pizza and the baking surface (which is usually the majority of the pizza), the bottom is baked through radiation (heat radiated from the baking surface). Higher emissivity = better thermal radiation.

Take a look at this picture for example: https://www.pizzalab.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/stainless-steel-bake-results.webp
Notice how the areas that did not come into direct contact with the stainless steel barely got any browning - this is due to the low emissivity of stainless steel.

The same principle applies to cooking the top of the pizza. The oven ceiling (or another baking steel) is more effective at radiating heat to the top of the pizza compared to a reflective surface, assuming they are at a similar distance from the pizza. For instance, if you have both upper and lower heating elements and you place a reflective surface between the pizza and the top heating element, you are essentially "blocking" the radiative heat from above. And since the low emissivity of the surface prevents it from absorbing and releasing the heat, it becomes pretty futile.

A single heating element at the bottom is a different story, but even then, I believe it would be more efficient to place the pizza closer to the oven ceiling instead of placing something above the pizza, whether it be steel or stainless steel.

In addition to radiation and conduction, there is also convection, which refers to the hot air circulating inside the oven. Since hot air always rises, the upper part of the oven will always be hotter due to more hot air being present there. However, as you mentioned, convection is not as important as radiant heat when baking pizza (unless you are using the convection function or bake in a conveyor oven).

A less intense option may prove beneficial in some situations.

Exactly. It's a balancing act between top and bottom heat

[gcpizza]

So, I have a very detailed article about this topic and how pizza is baked, but it's not translated yet

In short:

The bottom of the pizza, where the dough touches the baking surface, is baked through conductivity.
In areas where there is no direct contact between the bottom of the pizza and the baking surface (which is usually the majority of the pizza), the bottom is baked through radiation (heat radiated from the baking surface). Higher emissivity = better thermal radiation.

Take a look at this picture for example: https://www.pizzalab.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/stainless-steel-bake-results.webp
Notice how the areas that did not come into direct contact with the stainless steel barely got any browning - this is due to the low emissivity of stainless steel.

The same principle applies to cooking the top of the pizza. The oven ceiling (or another baking steel) is more effective at radiating heat to the top of the pizza compared to a reflective surface, assuming they are at a similar distance from the pizza. For instance, if you have both upper and lower heating elements and you place a reflective surface between the pizza and the top heating element, you are essentially "blocking" the radiative heat from above. And since the low emissivity of the surface prevents it from absorbing and releasing the heat, it becomes pretty futile.

A single heating element at the bottom is a different story, but even then, I believe it would be more efficient to place the pizza closer to the oven ceiling instead of placing something above the pizza, whether it be steel or stainless steel.

In addition to radiation and conduction, there is also convection, which refers to the hot air circulating inside the oven. Since hot air always rises, the upper part of the oven will always be hotter due to more hot air being present there. However, as you mentioned, convection is not as important as radiant heat when baking pizza (unless you are using the convection function or bake in a conveyor oven).
Exactly. It's a balancing act between top and bottom heat

The part that I misunderstood was how closely related emistivity and absorptivity are to each other. As I've mentioned previously, you explain things very well so that a layperson can easily understand. I look forward to reading your article once you've translated it.

pizzamaking.com is a great community focused on pizza and all the information that one needs to successfully create various types of pizza are contained herein. It is, though, difficult at times to learn here as the material is conversational and not an organized presentation. There is also as much bad information here as good and it's sometimes difficult to differentiate between the two. I urge those that are looking for pizza related information that is presented in a clear and a concise way to check out Yuval's site. In my opinion he's got a good start on a site that could become one of the preeminent resources for pizza information rivaling existing resources such as Tony G's Pizza Bible.

[TXCraig1]

As you are the resident heat expert here I have a question maybe you can provide some guidance on - Given what you've written here and given the reflective qualities of shiny surfaces, would a bright and unseasoned stainless steel or aluminium sheet pan on the rack a position or two above the baking steel or stone provide better top heat for baking pizza than the generally darker in color oven ceiling?

No probably far worse top heat as it would likely be reflecting the heat from a far cooler surface than the top of the oven which is likely the hottest place in the oven other than the heating element itself.

[Yuvalvv]

The part that I misunderstood was how closely related emistivity and absorptivity are to each other. As I've mentioned previously, you explain things very well so that a layperson can easily understand. I look forward to reading your article once you've translated it.

pizzamaking.com is a great community focused on pizza and all the information that one needs to successfully create various types of pizza are contained herein. It is, though, difficult at times to learn here as the material is conversational and not an organized presentation. There is also as much bad information here as good and it's sometimes difficult to differentiate between the two. I urge those that are looking for pizza related information that is presented in a clear and a concise way to check out Yuval's site. In my opinion he's got a good start on a site that could become one of the preeminent resources for pizza information rivaling existing resources such as Tony G's Pizza Bible.

Thank you for your kind words! This kind of feedback is what motivates me to continue

[Decoy205]

Can you share a pic of your oven?  

[Buddha]

I saw Tony G use two steels one on top one on bottom. He puts the pizza  on the steel that gets hotter first then finishes on the other one. Since I have a gas oven with broiler on bottom should I cook on bottom first for a few minutes then finish on top?