Troubleshooting NY style in LA

[lionelhutz]

Hello all,

I recently went to NY and hit a bunch of NY style pizza spots. Of the many I went to, two my favorites were L'industrie and Chrissy's. My favorite thing about them that they seemed to share was how the crackery bottom would sort of melt as it hit your tongue and give way to all the flavor and texture above. I had never had anything quite like it.  

So I wanted to try my hand at making NY style pie at home. I saw that Chrissy got his start on this board so I read through his thread. From there I used the Joe Rosenthal pizza calculator and came up with a forumla. I initially tried pies at 58% hydration but the bottoms got burnt. I bumped my latest to 60% hydration it was much better but is nowhere near what I am hoping for.

My main concern here is the crust.


This is the formula I used:

179g	Central Milling 00
108g	Water @ 89°F (60% Hydration)
4.5g	Kosher Salt
4g	Olive Oil
2.5g	Sugar
.8g	Diastatic Malt  (Hoosier Hill)
.4g	SAF Instant Yeast
1g	Bob's Vital Wheat Gluten

Yield: 1x 298g dough balls.

I tossed the yeast in the water to get it going, then mixed all dry ingredients together. Then I added the water and roughly mixed and then finally added the oil. I kneaded it all for about 11 mins by hand and ended up with this:


The FDT was 77°F

After 30 min rest at room temp (approx 65°F) I balled it and put it in the fridge for a 72 hour ferment.



I pulled it out 2 hours prior to baking on the day of the bake to warm up at room temp (approx 70°F)

I preheated my oven with at 525°F (highest it will go) with a 13 inch baking steel on the middle rack and a stone one rack above. The steel read 550°F on an IR thermometer before the pie went on and the stone also read 550°F. 

I shaped the pie and topped it with tomato sauce, low moisture, part-skim mozz (kirkland), pecorino, sopressata and I brushed the crust with evoo:
 

I baked it for 5 mins on the steel and then tossed it under the broiler for 3 minutes and ended up with this:



I actually really liked the bubbles and micro blisters on the pie but it was definitely not my intention. They crust had a nice developed flavor but I was aiming for something more like what I had in NY.  Can you guys help me understand why the bubbles were so big. Was that a shaping issue? Or was it fermentation?

Grateful to this forum for being such a cool resource to learn from and obsess. Thanks in advance for any help!

[kori]

I like the bubbles 

00 flour isn't really designed/recommended for NY style

[gcpizza]

You might want to take a look at @Yuvalvv 's article for some ideas: 

https://www.pizzablab.com/learning-and-resources/practical-guides/guide-to-crispy-pizza/

[TXCraig1]

I think you overfermented it. Bib bubbles like that are often the result of weak gluten.

[lionelhutz]

I like the bubbles 

00 flour isn't really designed/recommended for NY style

Thanks! I really did like them too but I am hoping to understand the why of it all so that I can replicate things.

I know this is a well worn conversation on here so sorry in advance for retreading old territory. From reading the various threads on here the issue with 00 flour is protein content and that it wont brown because it lacks the enzymes that a traditional NY flour does. I have 25 lbs of Central Milling 00 (11.5% protein) that I have to get through so I was hoping I could dope it  with LDMP and vital wheat gluten to make NY style.

Looking at my calculations I realize I must have been a bit off.  Reading the Chrissy thread it looks like he was using Sir Lancelot which is 14.2% protein. So instead of 1g vital wheat gluten I should have added closer to 4.8g to match the protein content. As far as the LDMP goes I was erring on the side of caution. 

Is there any other reason I am missing  as to why the 00 wouldn't work for NY style? Does something about the fineness of the flour prevent it from functioning well?

You might want to take a look at @Yuvalvv 's article for some ideas:

https://www.pizzablab.com/learning-and-resources/practical-guides/guide-to-crispy-pizza/

Thank you! I have not seen this I will dive in today.

I think you overfermented it. Bib bubbles like that are often the result of weak gluten.

Good to know. My plan is to add more vital wheat gluten to match the protein content of Sir Lancelot. I assume the dough would be stronger and I could still do a 72 hour fermentation. Hopefully this works. Appreciate the advice!

[kori]

VWG will work, I found it will give a taste that I don't care for.

My choice would be to purchase another flour and mix them together.