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Author Topic: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home  (Read 2495 times)

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Offline canadave

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trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« on: March 11, 2015, 02:51:34 PM »
It's prohibitively expensive for me to get Caputo's FioreGlut shipped to me here in rural Nova Scotia, so I've resorted to trying to recreate it myself so that I can make some great GF pizza.  I see the following ingredients on the label: rice flour, potato starch, corn starch, soy flour, sugar...and guar gum, xanthan gum, and "dietary fiber" as thickeners.  By "dietary fiber", I'm guessing they mean inulin, although I could be wrong.  I know inulin is a dietary fiber, so I'm going to go with that for now.

So, now I'm trying to come up with some plausible proportions for all this.  Here's my guess at a mix:

1 1/4 cup white rice flour
1 cup potato starch
1 cup corn starch
1/4 cup soy flour
1 Tbsp sugar
1 tsp xanthan gum
1 tsp guar gum
1 tsp inulin

Then, based on their basic pizza recipe they list on their bucket of flour, I figure that the following needs to go in (I scaled things down a bit, since the flour bucket recipe is based on 4 cups of water, and I'm looking to make a small batch first, using just over 1 cup of water):

Rest of ingredients for recipe:
1 1/3 cups warm water
2 tsp salt
2 tsp yeast

I also thought I'd add 1 Tbsp of olive oil in the recipe just for the heck of it :)

Does that all look about right, or would you mix it differently?  The flour/starch ratio is 1.5 cups-to-2 cups, and I'm not sure if that's the right proportion for GF pizza dough.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 02:53:42 PM by canadave »

Offline tdpol

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2015, 05:56:41 PM »
Doesn't look right ... your ratios are off.

You should be around 55-65% hydration.

Based on your recipe you have:

3.5 cups Flour - 100%
1.33 cups water - 37% = way too low. Try more like 2 - 2.33 cups water.

Offline canadave

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 06:11:04 PM »
Doesn't look right ... your ratios are off.

You should be around 55-65% hydration.

Based on your recipe you have:

3.5 cups Flour - 100%
1.33 cups water - 37% = way too low. Try more like 2 - 2.33 cups water.
Thanks...how about the proportions of the dry ingredients compared to each other?  Do they look about right?

Offline canadave

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2015, 07:55:08 PM »
Okay, well, I took the plunge anyway as-is, and I'll share my results with you all (sorry, no pictures this time around, just wanted to focus on getting things set up).

The dough recipe I used was as listed in the 1st post in this thread, except I used around 1 2/3 cups of water.  I put all the dry ingredients in a bowl, started my DLX mixer, and slowly added the water.  I immediately noticed that it mixed very briefly and then stopped mixing because it was too gloopy.  I stopped the mixer and kneaded it a bit with my hands.  It was, even by GF standards, one of the stickiest mixes I've ever had to try to manage!  Lots of it kept sticking to my hands.  I suppose wet hands would've been a better way to knead it--I'll try that next time.

Anyway, stickiness notwithstanding, I eventually got it kneaded a fair bit.  It was sticky, but not a batter like many GF pizza dough recipes.  It was more like slightly sticky playdoh.  I covered the bowl and let it rise for 60 minutes.

When I uncovered it and peered in, I could see and feel that it had solidified a fair bit, and had even risen a little--positive signs!  It now had the consistency of a very light fluffy dough ball.  It was still a little sticky, but I was able to scoop it out of the bowl with my hands and put it in an oiled pizza baking pan.  The recipe I posted should yield about two 12" pizzas.

Once the dough ball was in the pan, I was able to easily smooth the dough thin and flat with my bare dry hands, just by gently pressing outwards from the centre.  It was very moldable, again like playdoh.

I had preheated the oven to 500 degrees.  I put the pizza in the oven for about 5 minutes to parbake it.  The dough actually rose very well during the parbake, although it did exhibit signs of cracking on top (like you'd see in a pie crust).  Anyway, I then pulled it out and topped it, then put it in the oven until the cheese was done (another 4-5 minutes or so).

Result?  The bottom crust was nice and crunchy, and the texture was VERY acceptable for GF pizza.  Slightly chewy, but with enough airiness to not be dense.  Not QUITE exactly like gluten pizza texture, but very close.  The taste was very acceptable--a bit on the tasteless side, but not totally tasteless...neutral, with perhaps the slightest hint of rice flavour (almost indistinguishable, really).  Bear in mind this is without an overnight proofing to let the flavour develop.

So overall, it was a pleasant surprise, and I feel like it's close to FioreGlut.  My basis for comparison in this regard, by the way, is my many times eating GF pizza at Keste Pizza in NYC.  They use a woodfired oven to make Neapolitan margharita pizza, and I've verified with the owner (and seen in news articles) that they use FioreGlut.  The GF pizza there is phenomenal--soft, tasty, and completely indistinguishable from regular pizza.  Obviously I won't be able to get the same effect as the WFO, but the dough I made tonight is at least is plausibly similar, in my amateur opinion.

What could be improved?  Well, amping up the taste factor is definitely #1.  I'd like to try adding some olive oil to the recipe for my next attempt, and also let the dough proof overnight, to see if that helps.

Will welcome any and all suggestions and feedback on my recipe!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 08:01:38 PM by canadave »

Offline canadave

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2015, 07:51:12 PM »
Well, I made my second pie from my original formulation.  This time, since the previous incarnation had risen so much, I tried to really thin it out. I was able to thin it out quite well on a floured peel (no oil or pan this time for baking), to a point just above paper thin.

Interestingly, though, it still rose a fair bit once it hit the 500 degree oven, just like the previous effort.  It's a bit astounding to me, since it has no "rising helpers" other than the 2 tsp of yeast.  No baking powder, etc.  It's a testament to how good the dough is at being able to trap CO2 gases, I suppose, which is unusual for a GF dough.

I'd actually welcome some suggestions on how to adjust the mix so as to have a little less rising.  I suppose I could just do 1 tsp of yeast, and see if that helps...

Other than that, the final product was, like the previous effort, a little on the dry side.  I may need to up the H2O ratio as well.  I'm reluctant to go too much higher, though, since the dough was quite easy to handle...handled very similar to an actual gluten dough!

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Offline tdpol

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2015, 01:41:03 PM »
More salt might help reduce the lift. Post come pics. I'm interested in seeing your results.

I just started my gluten free starter and plan on using that with my flour mix - 50/50.

Browse the gluten free forum for what others have made and recipes.  I've also posted some videos from Italian blogs which show how to knead and mix the dough.

good luck

Offline canadave

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 04:10:33 PM »
OK, I'm in the middle of attempting another mix.  Here's my slightly adjusted recipe for the dry ingredients mix (I moved the salt and yeast up to this section for clarity):

1 1/4 cup white rice flour
1 cup potato starch
1 cup corn starch
1/4 cup soy flour

plus...:

1 Tbsp sugar
2 tsp salt
1 1/2 tsp instant dry yeast
1 tsp xanthan gum
1 tsp guar gum
1 tsp inulin
1/2 tsp ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Wet ingredients:

2 cups warm water
2 Tbsp regular (not extra virgin) olive oil

Added the wet to the dry, mixed for 2 minutes in my DLX mixer, and now am letting it rise covered for an hour.  The mixed "dough" is now more like a very thick and sticky batter (the extra water above and beyond my first attempt definitely makes it less "dough-like"). 

I am going to try to take pics as I go.  I will edit this post once everything is complete and add the pics.

*** EDIT ****

OK, pics are now attached.

This dough came out VERY nice.  Better than the first batch.  I put about a third of the dough on a well-floured peel, dusted it with flour, and was easily able to carefully shape it into a very thin disc that slid easily when I shook the peel back and forth.  It was so nice to be able to shape a pizza normally again, rather than pouring a half-batter into a pan and smoothing it with wet hands!

I topped the raw disc with sauce and cheese, without par-baking.  I put it on my stone preheated to 500 degrees in the oven.  The bottom crust didn't quite turn out cooked enough.  Next time I'll par-bake it for about 5 minutes.

Other than that, though, it came out tasting quite a bit better.  The extra salt and addition of oil probably helped a fair bit.  The pizza was foldable, bendable, and all-around very good.  On a scale of 1 being horrific garbage, and 10 being New York City's wood-fired Keste gluten free pizza made with FioreGlut flour (best GF pizza I've ever had), this was about a 7, 7.5.

As a test, I let two slices cool down, then re-heated them in the microwave to see how reheated would taste.  They still tasted good, but the texture was a bit gummy.  I'm wondering if the guar gum/xanthan gum content could be reduced slightly to try to remedy that.

Offline Zinc

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 08:35:49 PM »
I will mull your flour mix over for a bit, to see if I can think of anything. But off the top of my head, I think you should adjust your hydration rate. GF flours absorb water over a longer period differently, and can still be workable with higher rates of hydration. The fiore glut recipe which turned out the best for me came in at 92% hydration, but after a long enough rise and rest at room temp, the flours absorbed enough to allow the dough to be easily workable with lightly oiled hands. If you are uncomfortable working with that high of rate, I would at the very least try ~ 70%+

Offline canadave

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 08:51:19 PM »
Thanks, I'm definitely going to up the hydration rate for next batch (which I hope to try tomorrow or Sunday).

The proportions probably have to be readjusted, now that I see the new order of ingredients on the FioreGlut bucket whose photo you posted.  I'm thinking, after looking at it, of trying something like this:

1 1/4 cups corn starch
1 cup rice flour
3/4 cup potato starch
1/4 cup soy flour
1 Tbsp sugar
1 tsp inulin (fiber)
1 tsp xanthan gum (no guar gum)

Offline canadave

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Re: trying to recreate Caputo FioreGlut at home
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 12:44:44 PM »
Okay, tried Attempt #3 yesterday.  I used the following mix for the dry ingredients to start:

1 1/4 cups corn starch
1 cup rice flour
3/4 cup potato starch
1/4 cup soy flour
1 Tbsp brown sugar (I tried the brown this time to try to give it a little more flavour)
1 Tbsp dry milk powder (not included in original FioreGlut ingredient list)
1 1/2 tsp salt
1 1/2 tsp xanthan gum (omitted guar gum this time)
1 tsp inulin powder

I then put 1 1/2 tsp of active dry yeast in a bowl of 2 1/4 cups of very warm water, and waited 5 minutes.  To this I added 2 Tbsp regular olive oil, then added the bowl's contents to the dry ingredients and set my DLX on medium for about 4 minutes.  After mixing, I covered the mixer bowl and let the dough rise for an hour, then transferred the dough to a container and put it in the fridge.

About four hours after that, I pulled the dough from the fridge.  It was, again, quite wet and sticky, to the point where I had to just scoop it and then spread it with a wet spatula.

I did try a modification of Zinc's parchment paper technique.  My variation was to form the dough disc on floured parchment paper sitting on a round baking pan, then bake that at 530 (highest my oven will go) for 5 minutes, then remove the pan, transfer the hardened dough to a peel, top it with sauce/cheese, and back into the oven--this time on my pizza stone, for the remainder of the bake.  That worked fairly well, but the dough was very difficult to initially form on the parchment paper, and it was pretty messy.

ANALYSIS:

Taste: The dough's flavour was fairly good.  It didn't exhibit any particular flavour tinges that one sometimes gets with GF pizza.  I think the brown sugar and dry milk powder helped a little in that regard.
Texture: The dough had a decent amount of air pocketing, although obviously not the type you would see in a normal dough.  Visually it wasn't all that evident, but when I bit into it, the crust felt, to my subjective palate, plausibly like I was biting into a normal gluten pizza.  I could probably make it even a little lighter and airier by increasing the dry milk powder amount--that seems to be the key ingredient for that.
Browning: The edges came out pretty browned, but the main parts of the crust remained white.  I could try parbaking it a little longer.
Future: This dough was still way too wet for my liking.  I think I see the conundrum I'll be facing from here on, though.  I can reduce the hydration and get a dough that will be easier to handle and actually even form on a peel, which is my dream.  But, if I do that, the resulting baked crust will be too dry.  Conversely, if I get the hydration level to the point where the crust isn't barren, the dough will be difficult to work with.  I'm hoping there's a middle ground where I can get a low enough hydration level to be able to at least work the dough with my hands rather than a spatula (I've given up on the "nothing but the peel" dream, and am willing to accept a par-bake on a pan to firm up the dough first), yet still be moist enough that the crust won't dry out during baking.

Alternatively, I'm wondering if there's some way to prepare the dough so that it's formable on a peel, but yet during the baking process the moisture isn't all evaporated out of the crust.  I've read about bread bakers doing things like putting pyrex with water in their ovens to create a humid environment...I wonder if that's a possibility?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 12:47:09 PM by canadave »

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